Submissive/cowering/slinking Off With Food...

[gemibabe]

Some here know that I rescued a staffy from the pound with good intentions to find him a new home through Ivy, but once he was here, Shelby got on great guns (thanks to a fellow DOLer :rolleyes:) and due to his previous owners abuse I couldn't bare to give him up... plus its great for Shelby to finally have a doggy friend.

He cowers at the raise of a voice, he slinks off with his dinner (like he isn't suppose to have it ) and thinks he is constantly in trouble....very rarely makes eye contact with me also

He is non aggressive towards Shelby and shows no interest in joining in on the barking fest Shelby has with the dogs next door. If anything - he goes up to tell her off, by initiating play with her. In the first week he was here he wasn't interested at all in playing with her and her toys, but now they constantly play, nearly always instigated by Shelby... she is so hypo, where he is very laid back, not a care in the world... Not bothered by cars/door knocks etc...

So he has settled in great with Shelby and I have seen a slight improvement with us humans, but its hit a brick wall.

So I need tips to help him improve with humans please.

Thanks

Kylie

[petmezz]

hi

good on you for taking this dog on Gumibabe . unfortunatly the issues with your new dog will take a long time to over come :rolleyes: . just be quiet and friendly and eventually the dog will trust you and not act scared.

for the food thing, try several small feeds of a high value food a day in his food bowl give him pats when he eats the food, if he whon't eat the food with you their just move away and say good dog or something simular when he eats the food, make shour your voice is soft, and gental sounding. the dog should establish it is ok to eat from the bowl in a few weeks. good luck.

with the voice thing, it will be easer to rember not to use loude voices for a whill. work on gaining the dogs trust, that you are not going to hert the dog. use your other dog play with the dog whill around the unshour dog, this will imatate to the abused dog that their is nothing to be afrade off, but make shour the games you play do not imatate a fight, so tug games, ball games, hide an seek, catch me if you can are all good games to play, leave rough restiling for a mounth or so.

be happy, if you notice the dog being unshour slinking back and so on, make a fuss over some thing (other then the dog) and get excited about what ever, when the dog begins to investigate what you on about reword him with a nice treet but keep the reword low key.

the main thing with your rescue dog is to remain calm, respect the dogs fealings and go slow......... their is no quick fix, the dogs recovery could take days or years and deing a bull breed they are renown for having a long memory.

an abused corgi that we receved took years to over come his fears of men. in fact on his 7th year with us (he was 9 then) he accepted dad when he was drinking out the back. this brought dad to tears as this dog for 7 years would not go near him if he had a drink, and would cower away and hide. when the dog acepted the fact that dad was not going to hert him, you couldn't seporate them they where best mates.

the point is this dog has serious trust issues, and you are going to need to be farly quiet, calm, and rember their is no quick fix. don't push the dog to far and fast.

and rember the dog is happy, he has a good home now with dog friends, and people who wan't to help, give him time and he will come around. just make shour he never sees the ass who mistreeted him, if he dose it may undo all the work you have done and he might go back to the dog you have now.

hope this was of some help. Good luck

[cavNrott]

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Edited May 8, 2009 by cavNrott

[Erny]

good on you for taking this dog on Gumibabe ...

Hey Gemibabe ..... you lost your teeth or something?

Something I have found helpful with dogs who lack confidence around people - I have done this with those dogs who have come to the kennels for boarding and training. I get the dog to perform some small 'agility' moves. Eg. encouraging the dog up on to a chair or table (depending on size of dog) or even a small but solid storeage box. Apart from the dog 'feeling clever' (I say that running the risk of anthropomorphism) I think the dog's perception of raised height in comparison to handler/owner raises its ranking level a notch - ETA. No, that's not quite true. Probably simply doesn't feel as submissive DUE to the reduction of height difference.

With some, the dogs are so nervous/lacking in confidence that I have to manually place them, paw at a time, up on to the chair/table. But regardless, I always make out like they've completed the most complex of feats and give them a treat (whatever their favourite is), then call them down. I repeat a number of times and on most occasions by the end of the session have the dog confidently springing up and then down (on command/direction) from the item within the first session, or at least by the second one.

There are some dogs too nervous to accept even a tasty food treat, initially, but once they do a couple of repetitions of the 'agility' exercise, their nervousness abates sufficiently to accept the treat. The whole thing then starts to snow ball in a positive way.

Naturally, you need to be careful here not to have the dog believe its actually higher ranking than you, but with these temperament types I find that doesn't occur, especially if other things (such as obedience; NILIF program etc. etc.) are continued and in place.

Once the dog is performing this 'trick' confidently, I will start each training session with one or two repeats of this performance before continuing with obedience training. In the obedience I work to set the dog up for many, many wins, keeping it easy. Depending on the dog and its progress, I might even break the obedience training session up with returns to the 'agility' exercise. Eventually, when the dog's confidence has been gained, the need to do the 'agility' exercise diminishes and is actually often replaced with the emergence of some other preference for reward that the dog was otherwise earlier too nervous to exhibit (eg. tug toy play etc.)

More often than not the dog's progress is reflected in its obedience as well and then opens the door to move from the 'teaching' phase of training to the 'training' phase.

ETA: I work to avoid giving attention for the most submissive of behaviour. Even using food luring to 'straighten' the dog up into a more confident sit (eg) and then treating for the more confident position.

Edited May 10, 2006 by Erny

[Rusky]

When he does come to you for a pat give him a treat, may mean you need to permanently carry treats in your pocket. When you call him to you and he comes and Sheby comes too treat them both, reward with food. Ignore him unless he comes to you inside the house, respect his privacy and wanting to hide. Try really really hard not to raise your voice but if you do, don't look at him to wonder if he is upset, or even go looking for him...ignore. If he doesn't want treats or pats simply "good dog" or "Good boyyyeeee"

He loves Shelby and Shelby loves him, there is 95% of your problems sorted it all takes time.

Make sure you feed separately, so Shelby inside and he outside or laundry or whatever, still make him wait for his food and give him a release command. Then leave him alone till he has finished.

When visitors arrive, tell them to ignore the dogs then go outside after a while, still ignoring them and if he shows interest in the visitor reward him. I mean waggy tailed sniffing.

This boy has landed on his feel alright, he is so lucky to have found you.

[cavNrott]

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Edited May 8, 2009 by cavNrott

[gemibabe]

good on you for taking this dog on Gumibabe ...

Hey Gemibabe ..... you lost your teeth or something?

ROFLMAO

ditto!! That was so funny

Thanks everyone!

I wanted to do the TOT program but thought twice about it with him because he would think he is/was in trouble.

I'll start carrying treats, one good thing with him is he is a garbage guts... gobble first, smell/taste later Actually sometimes I wonder if he does get to taste it

I make him sit before his meal, and I say his name and he looks at me ever so quickly - nano seconds infact - I jump on that real quick and say OK to eat.

I'm going to print all this advice out and highlight the training tips and get cracking

Thanks again

Kylie

[sidoney]

Don't know why TOT would result in dog thinking it was in trouble?

Anyway this thread reminded me a little of "Mad Meg" that Rozzie had (except that Meg was not responsive to food), here's the link:

Unresponsive dog thread

[petmezz]

good on you for taking this dog on Gumibabe ...

Hey Gemibabe ..... you lost your teeth or something?

^ apparently my brain wasn't conected to my fingers this morning. sorry Gemibabe for spelling you name wrong, hope you didn't take offence .

just to defend my sugestion with the food thing, this is just how we do things in the family home, and we have never had a problem with the rescued abused dogs, even ferral cats became tame, mabe i didn't explain properly.

[gemibabe]

no offence taken, it was very funny, I got a good belly laugh from it

I wont be patting him with his dinner... tonight I hung back a bit and he crept ever so slowly towards his bowl with a side glance to check where I was, So I wont bother him with it.

Syd, I thought tethering him might be the wrong thing at the moment. I will do the TOT with him, once I've built his confidence up.

I'm going to take a look at that mad meg thread, thanks

Kylie

Edited May 10, 2006 by gemibabe

[sidoney]

Yes, I hoped you might. Meg started behind a gate as she could not have a lead on - your dog may benefit from a similar approach.

Edit: LOL, I just saw who made some of the later posts on that thread Gemibabe - it was you!!!

Edited May 10, 2006 by sidoney

[gemibabe]

Edit: LOL, I just saw who made some of the later posts on that thread Gemibabe - it was you!!!

Ah, that was when I first learnt the TOT program... Memories as a new DOLer

[peibe]

I will admit to not reading the whole thread but when I have a foster dog like you have I will sit with them in a small room reading a book while they eat. They cannot leave, you do not look at them or say anything, just totally ignore them and read your book. I do this for 1 week, then the next week I talk to them while they eat but do not touch them, then after another week I pat them while they eat, if any of this goes wrong we go back to the previous step

Could we see pictures?

[sidoney]

Oh I should note that there is an updated version of ToT from the one in the Mad Meg thread. It's been posted recently ...

Here it is.

[MonElite]

gemibabe - I dont know if you follwed the thread on the K9 handlers workshop couple of months ago. I was given a dog that was completly freaked out, obused, non responsive etc. Id say that was a bit of an extreme dog to handle. those that were there can tell you a bit more of the story.

The aim of the workshop was to win the dog over and have the dog walking on loose lead, and have a hppy attitute towards the handler.

If you have read the thread you would know that we all achieved it. so it can be done.

K9 explaiend the pressure on pressure off, avoidance, agression (fear and rank) maybe you would benefit in attending one of his w/shops in Vic, that is if he stilll has spots available.

I think it woudl certainly help you.

[gemibabe]

Sorry Myzska thats not going to happen re: K9 workshop in Vic. I didn't follow the thread either. He walks perfect on lead and comes when called, he is not a handful, just very abused He isn't fearful of dogs or everyday noises. He cowers at human voices when raised or in an angry tone the rest is in my first post.

Peibe thanks for that advice, I will try that see how we go...

Pics... here you go :)Shelby is with white and smaller, Joey is the pound boy

[MonElite]

I didnt say or assume that this dog of yours is a handfull, I said that I had an obused dog at the workshop, and what the aim of the workshop was.

All the dog I had wanted to do was be away from peopel as it was fearfull oh any human.

the aim was to get the dog respond to the handler, and we did it..

i really dont think that you will learn anything here, this dog need to see a pro, if you do wrong the dogs fear could turn into agression.

your choice, the owners of the dog i hadled at K9s did 3 weeks of atttempts to get the dog to bond with them, and achieved less in those 3 weeks than we achieved in one day.

simply becouse we had a pro advice, where they had big hearts and lacked knowledge.

search to hadlers workshop - it was mid february, you will know what people thought of the dog in the before and after the workshop.

[peibe]

He is so cute looks like a keg on legs, I can totally understand why you kept him.

When you have the food worked out, tape yourself and other people talking loudly. Play the tape on soft volume where he can hear it day in day out, slowely increase the volume, never really loud though

I am working through similar problems with a Shar Pei I got from Renbury recently this seems to be working for her

goodluck with him, I will also add that the TOT works aswell, sidoney sent it too me and I have been using it