Raw Feeders

[noisymina]

I don't really understand why mince is needed in BARF - if meaty bones are being fed, the meat component is covered - at no extra cost and with a whole lot less trouble!

Mine started to gain weight on BARF - partly because I think I was getting a bit generous witht he meaty bones, so I weigh them now.

She is 30kg (normally) and was gaining (32kg) on 400g meaty bones and about 250g of other stuff - offal, veg etc. The 400g has now been reduced to 300g and the rest left the same - to see how she goes on that.

Her activity levels vary greatly, which makes it a bit hard to judge how much she needs, but if I was feeding her 3% of her ideal body weight, she would be getting 900g per day That would make one fat Dobe.

She is shiny, healthy and very playful. We have zoomies every night.

[Norskgra]

I agree Noisymina. 3% is far too much for my dogs as well. I personally don't feed nearly that amount. I weigh all their food as I now know what amount suits each individual dogs. I was simply saying what they normally say as a guide.

[Guest Eza]

Ok heres what I do...Im new to BARF/ non tinned food (enter music).

Until 4 mths ago I was feeding PAL tins (If only I had known earlier).

Now I feed....

200g Grated (food processor wont juice) Carrot, apple and Pumpkin (soon to be celery too).

300g Mince (from Lenard or butcher)

1cup supercoat active/energy but that will soon be 1/2 cup breakfast.

egg once a week

Sardines once a week

pasta once a week (soon to be once a fortnight).

Also soon to be yoghurt (thanks Noisy and Fury).

I will try to find some before and after photos.

BC x Bitch, started at 18kg with incontinence, dull coat and major attitude.

NOW: 20.5kg (want to be 21kg) no incontinence, bright coat and much better attitude. She was going to be on steroids for the rest of her life and has gone 7 days with no medication now (could have been off medication before).

Kelpie x dog, started at 18.5kg, attitude, flakey skin and dull coat.

NOW: 22kg (stopped supercoat and working on fat intake now), Working on attitude (got stuck in ways), clean skin and bright coat.

Im very impressed, supercoat will only be used as a breakfast (more convient for me) and I do feed offal when it is available.

[noisymina]

The meaty bones I currently can get include Lamb breast (can be a bit fatty, so I get the leaner ones, but I also believe that some fat is needed anyway, specially for the Dobes), Lamb off cuts (if they are lean ones), Pork trotters (occasionally, once every week or so), Pork off cuts (if lean), Chicken frames, chicken necks, chicken wings (in moderation as they are also fatty), chicken pieces or maryland, thighs etc according to cost at the time.

I will be widening the search soon - looking for proper beef brisket (the stuff in the supermarket is rubbish) and other things like turkey necks, roo tail etc - for variety.

Eza - do you know if the mince has preservatives etc in it? It really is hard to know what additives are in mince or how much of it is fat - one can get some idea if it is still whole, but not once minced. The teeth also benefit from chewing the bones - assuming the teeth are currently up to the task, that is.

:D

[Guest Eza]

I give them denta sticks and they have 100 toys to chew, both are have healthy teeth. I cant give bones, they wont eat them (tired nemerous times and they just bury them and leave them. been in house for 13 mths and we have 7-8 13mth old bones lying about).

I dont know what is in the mince but ATM its the only place I can get it, the butcher freezes his and I trust lenards more than I trust the butcher sadly.

[noisymina]

13 month old bones?

I guess they really are determined not to eat them. :D

When mine starts to bury her bones, I know she's not hungry! But then, she does eat them a day or two later if I go very lightly on the food.

Maybe, after they have been on a full BARF schedulae for a while, they mught be more interested. :D

Yeh - I'm a dreamer, too. Amongst other things. :rolleyes:

:D

Edited May 12, 2006 by noisymina

[KitKat]

The leonards mince shouldn't have any preservatives...all it is is mulched/minced chook frames...

And to add to the 'prey diet' idea...wouldn't it mean that you would gives your dogs heaps of food over a day or two...then fast them for a day or two? and continue along that line?

(please note "you" is a generalised "you" rather any anyone specific :D )

[caslero]

i also give O-Ren fish oil omega 3 tablets daily- in only 2 weeks of taking them i already have her almost trained, i say take your pill, and she basically lets me put it on her tongue and she will swallow it, soon i hope to have her taking them from my hand

question- i was giving her 1000mg daily, but i notice that others are giving 3000mg, she is about 16kg active border collie- wot would you recommned

I've seen mentioned on several nutrition lists that the ideal dosage for fish oil is 1,000mg daily per 10kg of bodyweight.

I'd say either 1,000mg or 2,000mg per day for your girl would be fine. My Dobes eat them straight from my hand like they're lollies... I'm sure it won't be long before your girl does the same :D

[O-Ren]

thankyou very much Cas

btw luv da dobes

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Lillysmum means theoretical (diet modelled to emulate what would be consumed in natural state), not actual practical implementation.

Though I've no idea why the kibble ?

Molly gets kibble for breakfast b/c otherwise it would take her all morning to eat! When I adopted Molly, I asked our vet about her dietary needs and frequency of feeds b/c I'd never had a toy-sized dog before. He recommended the two feeds daily. When I discovered how long it takes her to eat a regular raw meal, I realised that we didn't have that kind of time in the morning rush and that I would have to either substitute processed for raw, or offer her something raw that wasn't whole (i.e ground up RMB or similar). I opted for a high-end organic kibble. (Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Organic Formula). I've found this works very well for Molly, us and the other dogs. Molly is first up so she can eat her tiny handful of kibble before the other dogs get up, then she goes outside for the toilet, while the other two dogs get up.

I bought a bag of DVPNBOF in January...and I'm still using that bag. It's slightly past its best before date but still good...the bag is around 2.2 kgs...so I guess that gives you an idea of how little her portion really is.

In a perfect world, she would get a completely raw diet too. But I also remember that dogs get treats either when training or just b/c we love them, and these treats aren't always raw either. So, my dogs are not completely raw fed if you want to look at it that way. They do get dried liver pieces, sometimes a biscuit or two (high end only such as Eagle Pack, no lucky dog or similar ), and the Purina "not bacon" treats which they *love* esp in their treat balls.

BTW - I see the diet I offer as being "prey model style" rather than strictly BARF ala Billinghurst. I think it's the proportion of food types that I offer which is different, and the fact that I don't use veg/fruit slop every meal but only every second or third day (for memory, BARF recommends vegetation most days). If I could obtain whole rabbit (with fur on) at a reasonable price, then I would include that as often as possible. But I haven't found anywhere to supply me with whole (intact) rabbit. And I'm not sure the dogs would know what to do with it anyway. :D

edited for typ-o.

Edited May 14, 2006 by lillysmum

[SkyesongTollrz]

It's modified BARF, or modified raw, whichever you prefer. But it's NOT prey model, no matter how much you try and claim it is.

Quite honestly I don't give a toss what you feed, but don't try and make yourself out to be some kind of highly knowledgable, enlightened raw feeder when you still give your dogs kibble.

[SkyesongTollrz]

I am a VERY devoted BARFER. This diet applies to both my own CAVALIERS and those that I have in rescue.

Kyla BVSc (nearlly lol)

QLD CAVALIER RESCUE

Hi Kyla!

Can't wait until you become a "real" vet! When you start practicing, do let us know! I'm sure you'll have quite a few clients happy to have a raw food friendly vet! :D

[zayda_asher]

I've seen mentioned on several nutrition lists that the ideal dosage for fish oil is 1,000mg daily per 10kg of bodyweight.

It also depends what you are giving it for... if you are just giving it as a supplement the lower dose is ok (not preferred, but ok)... however, if you are giving it for a skin condition then the higher theraputic dose is needed

Dan

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

It's modified BARF, or modified raw, whichever you prefer. But it's NOT prey model, no matter how much you try and claim it is.

Quite honestly I don't give a toss what you feed, but don't try and make yourself out to be some kind of highly knowledgable, enlightened raw feeder when you still give your dogs kibble. :D

So are we to understand that your dogs do not ever get anything that's processed in any way? NO training treats, NO treat balls, NO kongs? Completely raw foods in every way, shape and form. OK then. You must have much more spare time than most of us, half your luck! :D

The only dog in my family that EATS kibble as in gets it for a meal is Molly and I've explained the reasons for that being the case. It's a tiny handful (about ten pieces of an organic superpremium kibble) and it's once a day, for goodness' sake. But in your (perfect?) world, that makes me less than "highly knowledgeable" when I've been feeding raw, whole foods to my dogs for close to four years. Exclusively, except for Molly who I adopted in November last year. What makes someone "highly knowledgeable" in this arena in your opinion? Are you such a person? Please tell us! I'd love to know, in the hopes that I too can become "highly knowledgeable" about raw whole foods and how to implement and manage same. Seeing as I'm doing such a *poor job* ATM. In your opinion, anyway.

[Rom]

Our local lenards buys in the chicken frames to make their pet mince from. They will sell these chicken frames in approx 10kg box for $5.50. Gets you btn 20 and 25 frames depending on size. I give them to my girl whole but if you wanted to mince them be worth while getting them this way and mincing them yourself.

[Kelle]

Here are before and after shots of our BARF boys....

They came to us with the help of some amazing members on the DOL rescue forum in January.Both were recovering from a pretty rough start in life. Zed, the brown pup, was in the worst shape, sporting a very fetching, coarse orange coat!!

The pups have been on BARF since they were rescued by Paws & Hooves- the only "exception" to the diet was a handful of Eaglepack Puppy Kibble for their midday meal.

Here's the result after a month and a half - I can't keep them still long enough to get something more recent!

Their daily menu dependents on what's cheapest & freshest. We tend to do most of their shopping at Aussie Pet Supplies in Haberfield but I also pick up fresh meat on special when I do the human's shopping.

Generally they get chicken necks or wings for breakast.

Dinner is chicken/beef/lamb mince with vegies (Aussie Pet makes some mixes based on BARF principles- I also add my own fresh veggies to their standard minces). At the moment they get liver/ heart in their mince mixes - I've tried to introduce it seperately but they're not keen!

I also add a tin of sardines every few days which I think is the secret to their shiny coats, along with egg or olive oil.

A few days a week they get lamb bones to chew, alternated with Kongs filled with treats and raw fruit and veggies to nibble on during the day.

It's hard to do a true before and after comparison for these little guys but BARF certainly seems to agree with them

Cheers,

Kel

[noisymina]

Love those ears.

Well done - lovely coats.

;)

[Hazz]

Amazing Kelle, they both look wonderful !!, You've done a wonderful job with them

[SkyesongTollrz]

So are we to understand that your dogs do not ever get anything that's processed in any way? NO training treats, NO treat balls, NO kongs? Completely raw foods in every way, shape and form. OK then. You must have much more spare time than most of us, half your luck! The only dog in my family that EATS kibble as in gets it for a meal is Molly and I've explained the reasons for that being the case. It's a tiny handful (about ten pieces of an organic superpremium kibble) and it's once a day, for goodness' sake.

No, but then again I also don't walk around telling everyone that I feed a prey model diet to my dogs. They get all raw food, and I use a bit of cheese or kabana for training treats, because I'm not walking around with raw liver in my pocket. So I I feed modified raw. And I'm honest about it. I don't allow kibble in my house, and wouldn't feed it to my dogs under any circumstances, regardless of brand. If you were really such an obsessive raw feeder, you would find alternatives for your morning, rather than using kibble. I don't care what you feed, but call it what it is.

But in your (perfect?) world, that makes me less than "highly knowledgeable" when I've been feeding raw, whole foods to my dogs for close to four years. Exclusively, except for Molly who I adopted in November last year. What makes someone "highly knowledgeable" in this arena in your opinion? Are you such a person? Please tell us! I'd love to know, in the hopes that I too can become "highly knowledgeable" about raw whole foods and how to implement and manage same. Seeing as I'm doing such a *poor job* ATM. In your opinion, anyway.

Highly knowledgable are the people that have intensively studied this type of feeding, not anecdotal evidence over a few years based on feeding a few dogs BARF, with a little bit of kibble. ;) Oh and good on your for feeding BARF for four years. I've been feeding raw for a hell of a lot longer than that. Excuse me if I don't believe you to be an expert on the subject. If you did have an in depth knowledge of the subject, you would also know that there is a hell of a big difference between raw and BARF.

Your're an expert in everything, and a master of none, and people are getting sick of tired of having your theories forced down their throats. *That's* why I think you're doing such a poor job. Do as I say, not as I do. Pah!

[Fastgals]

But I haven't found anywhere to supply me with whole (intact) rabbit. And I'm not sure the dogs would know what to do with it anyway.

Oh yes they would, Lillysmum, don't you worry about that ;) . Maggie brought down a rabbit on a friend's property a while ago - while she was on-lead! - so once we'd managed to convince both her and Lulu, who'd grabbed hold of it as well, to let go...I popped it in a plastic bag and brought it home. Other-Half insisted on removing the digestive tract (but no other internals) as he reckons this always made their family hunting dogs throw up and I reluctantly agreed - it did stink something shocking! The bunny was divided up amongst our 3 greys and 1 cat, skin on, and all tucked into it with gusto! They left nothing. Wish I could give them stuff like that more often! Must look up that nephew of OH who was talking about going rabbiting...

Regards,

Fastgals.