KOE Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 My sons stupid puppy runs around eating the GSD's food normally he makes a wide berth of Elka as she gives that look even Oliver and Kim dont go near her food bowl yet she will eat out of theirs with them and all is fine as long as it is not her bowl. Last night the Ridgeback/Bullarab cross stuck his nose in Elkas bowl and she bit him ruptering his jugular vein, I applied pressure and raced him to the vet who said if I didnt do that he would be dead, the outside entertainment area looked like a murder scene I really though he was dead so much blood for one dog. Well 1st thing the stupid pup does is go straight to Elka and start playing with her and now she continually growls at him and bites at his neck. How do we get back to the status quo that we had where they all got on, I do not want to seperate him from the 3 shepherds as he lives here and it will be too complicated being that I have a front and back yard and the cats have access to the front and the dogs access to the back. I am worried that if she starts on him when no one is home the shepherds will pack like they nearly did the other night and kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Try cross posting to training forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 You are going to have to supervise meal times. if the pup cant stick to its own food bowl then tether it until it finishes eating. Each dog should not eat out of any other bowl, even Elka. If you see her going to another bowl call her off it and put her back at her own. Its same rules for everyone not just her. If you let her boss the other dogs around you are creating 2 things: stronger possessiveness in her towards other animals losing your leadership position with her If Elka gets snappy over her food take it away from her. Make her sit while the others eat and let her go hungry for a couple of minutes. Dont let her get away with bossiness or she will injure again. She will start doing this with toys etc so make sure there are enough toys and beds for everyone. You have to teach them to get along, not only the new puppy but the existing dogs. It seems that Elka sees herself as the boss of the pack and thats dangerous for a puppy that doesnt understand at the moment, and is a type that is a rough player. You need them all to be your pack, which means they share with each other but have the right to have things for themselves. Still, if you want to go take an item from Elka and give it to another dog she should not crack it. Tough luck mums the boss. Also some extra obedience for them while they play would not go astray. Supervise play time, if you see it getting too rough get in there and show them theyre wrong. Separating may create a 'us and him' mentality with the existing group. The pup has to learn to hold his own but the shepherds have to learn that rough play is unacceptable and they HAVE to incorporate him into the existing family like it or not. If you sort Elka's attitude towards the pup the others, who obviously see her as leader, will have no rough behaviour to follow and you will have less ganging up. Its time to flex some of that mummy muscle and show them who really is boss, the human and not the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TURBOTERROR Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I agree with nehkbet here ... I hate to say it . But you were kinda tempting fate here. You have obviously learnt from this as you are asking for help , which is good. Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttaburra Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Thank heavens you had the presence of mind to apply pressure and saved the pup. Well done Another technique for stemming the jugular is to press a beer bottle top, the ones with the fluted edges, down on it. Hope it all settles down for you now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Even with gentle Shelties & buddhist Tibbies & wossy cats...our dogs are always fed in separate places where they can't even look at another's food. So worth it, for peace of mind at mealtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 She will start doing this with toys etc so make sure there are enough toys and beds for everyone. You have to teach them to get along, not only the new puppy but the existing dogs. It seems that Elka sees herself as the boss of the pack and thats dangerous for a puppy that doesnt understand at the moment, and is a type that is a rough player. You need them all to be your pack, which means they share with each other but have the right to have things for themselves. Still, if you want to go take an item from Elka and give it to another dog she should not crack it. Tough luck mums the boss. Also some extra obedience for them while they play would not go astray. Supervise play time, if you see it getting too rough get in there and show them theyre wrong. Separating may create a 'us and him' mentality with the existing group. The pup has to learn to hold his own but the shepherds have to learn that rough play is unacceptable and they HAVE to incorporate him into the existing family like it or not. If you sort Elka's attitude towards the pup the others, who obviously see her as leader, will have no rough behaviour to follow and you will have less ganging up. Its time to flex some of that mummy muscle and show them who really is boss, the human and not the dogs. Kim is the boss not Elka. And the puppy knows not to annoy her. Yet she will eat from a bowl with him. That is actually the first time I left them eating as I do usually stand there but I was running late. They all sit before meals Kim is fed 1st followed by Oliver then Elka then the puppy, Also I can take anything from Elka and she doesnt mind at all. It is though she has a hate for this pup. I have also told my son he is to be desexed asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 (edited) normally he makes a wide berth of Elka as she gives that look even Oliver and Kim dont go near her food bowl yet she will eat out of theirs with them and all is fine as long as it is not her bowl. from what I understand of this you allow Elka to eat from other bowls but they will not eat from hers. You are still allowing some sort of possessiveness around the food bowl. You may be able to take things from her, but you are not the target. If Kim was the boss Elka would not eat from her food bowl and let Kim eat from hers. I would never let a dogs in a group situation resource guard, and never share food from bowls either if they are to learn respect for each other because they wont be worried the other will try and pinch it. Maybe Elka does not like being the bottom rung dog (as she shows with her guarding of the bowl from the other dogs) and now she is showing her dominance over this new puppy. Edited April 30, 2006 by Nekhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Ours are all separated when eating, saves stress, saves any possible friction. even though our guys get along (well nearly all of them!) I prefer to have them eat apart, they are just to damn big to pull apart if it went pear shaped. We do expect good pack behavior, but not every dog seems to have the ability to learn from / listen to an alpha dog/bitch, and keep themselves out of trouble!! lucky you where able to save the pup. I almost lost one of my girls in a small squabble, one bit into the other, missing the carotid artery by mm!!! fifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 Last night I fed them about 6 feet apart and as soon as that pup went to go over the the GSD's I put him inside, and made sure everyone ate their own as soon as they left their bowls I removed them, not happy puppies. But peace has reingned for last night anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro_007 Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 With the number of dogs that I have I find it much easier and less stressful to hand feed them, a handful each at a time, it doesn't take long (20 mins) to feed them all and eliminates any risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melisski Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 (edited) With the number of dogs that I have I find it much easier and less stressful to hand feed them, a handful each at a time, it doesn't take long (20 mins) to feed them all and eliminates any risks Problem is though, if you go away or are ill and someone else has to feed them then they're unlikely to eat from a bowl. I feed my two seperately - one inside, one outside, and they can't see eachother. Neither is overly possessive about food, but Diesel is a slow eater whereas Indy scoffs hers. Bowls are taken away immediately after they're finished as the one and only time I forgot, Indy went to Diesel's bowl (which was empty) and he nailed her from about three metres away. She wasn't hurt, but nonetheless, I don't want any problems starting either. I'd really recommend feeding them in completely seperate areas, Isaviz. I can only imagine how hard it would be to seperate three grown GSDs fighting over their food bowls. Edited May 3, 2006 by Melisski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 All is now fine pup is confined to a crate to eat, If I take Oliver away from the girls he wont eat his food he whines to be with them, and when I go away if the 3 shepherds dont come which is rare they go to boarding kennels. So puppy is confined and I sit with them until they are finished. I have been feeding the 3 together since they all arrived Kim is 4 Oliver nearly 2 and Elka 14 months, and until the pup came I never had a problem only Elka guarding hers but never a bad word said. thanks for your answers I am going to try and keep the balance I have had the whole time before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melisski Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Sounds like it's working then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf82 Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 The pup isnt stupid, its your fault this happened. Dogs who may normally be 100% fine around each other can be very food aggressive. You should separate your dogs when they eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 I agree the pup is not stupid, he just does not know any better, he is a pup after all. Glad that the bub is ok . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 The pup isnt stupid, its your fault this happened. Dogs who may normally be 100% fine around each other can be very food aggressive.You should separate your dogs when they eat. Well thanks for that, I know it is my fault I should not have left them unattended, the pup who does not belong to me is seperated from my 3 to eat now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petmezz Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 isaviz. well done on the quick thinking with the pup, i don't think most people would have been able to save the pup. as for feeding, the crate sounds great, i had a simular problem a few months ago with a pup that would go to another dogs bowl and growl at the dog. after about a week of training they where fine, and all 3 dogs eat together now though they all face different directions. you sound like you have it sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmons Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Nekhbet has spoken a load of commonsense and given you very good advice. You will need to watch Elka very carefully or otherwise you are going to create an problem between your bitches. Bitches fight to the death, not until one submits. If the others are already giving her a wide berth when she guards her bowl and when she claims a toy, there is a pack order change in the air. Kim may no longer be the top of the totem pole in Elka's eyes and there may be a few spats to sort things out. Be prepared. You are going to have call the shots and take no nonsense from either bitch or else you will be burying one! The puppy is just a puppy .... but Elka will need to be watched whenever she is playing with him. Older dogs will teach a puppy the house rules but Elka seems to be taking a different approach. Normally bitches will grab but not try to rip the throat out as she did. They make a lot of noise and the puppy will yelp - it's all noise and no damage normally. I hope you don't intend getting another puppy until Elka is sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O-Ren Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 both elka and the pup should be trained and disaplined to eat oly from their owne bowls so then everyone eats from their own bowls, with ampl distance- none would have a problem Elka was around first so of course she is possessive, i had this prob with o_ren altho she didnt get violent, just loud and the hackles went up at meal times- in her mind i wasnt suppose to be feeding him at all nowadays they share bowls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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