Gillian Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Hiya all, With all the talk about the SAR Workshop that K9 force just had in Sydney and the one coming up in VIC, I thought I'd ask a few really simple questions on behalf of a lot of people in here that dont know a lot about SAR Dogs... 1. What type of person/canine is best suited to this? 2. Is it certain breeds of dogs only? 3. Are there a lot of SAR teams out there? 4. I know a lot of training is involved with getting both dog and handler to a good level - but more specifically how much of time realistically should one be prepared commit? Thanks guys Gillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 K9: these are some great questions, Im sure SARDOG will respond with all the right answers. I will check tommorrow & if no answers will reply then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 sorry abit off topic, does the V.R.A (volunteer rescue association) in NSW do search and rescue dogs anymore? i remember about 4 years ago there was a female belgian shepherd (malinois) come out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latisha Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 (edited) As an attendee of the SAR Workshop, I will give my opinion (the more technical requirements I will leave to SARDOG! and I will be interested in hearing the answers myself): 1. What type of person/canine is best suited to this? Hopefully anyone with enthusiasm and willingness to learn. From the current SARDA team though, I think a sense of humour is advantagous! When considering it though (before I went to the workshop), I weighed up the passion side of things (for the dogs and the work ie. saving people) compared to the human skills involved. I am generally a shy person, so I thought how is that going to work but if you have the right team and motive for the work, I think anyone with a heart and drive to work hard should be able to do it (obviously a suitable puppy being required). 2. Is it certain breeds of dogs only? Why would you want anything but a lab (maybe 1 Golden vote in there) haha!! You haven't seen SARDA dogs yet. I think you will forget that question once you meet them. I have never owned a lab but I can't wait (and I already sound biased)!!! 3. Are there a lot of SAR teams out there? Definitely not that I would trust with your life (stats wise in Oz). Ok thats harsh but I think it to be true (I have not met any other groups personally but I am sure you will leave with the attitude "once you found the best, don't consider the rest" or whatever the saying is.) 4. I know a lot of training is involved with getting both dog and handler to a good level - but more specifically how much of time realistically should one be prepared commit? This one relates for me to the next post I am going to write. How much time / energy are you able to commit? does the V.R.A (volunteer rescue association) in NSW do search and rescue dogs anymore? i remember about 4 years ago there was a female belgian shepherd (malinois) come out The Australian K9 Search and Rescue is still listed on the site as affiliates but when I was originally looking (to get a general idea), I could never find any info (thats not surprising with my internet skills though) on them. Were they ever used in NSW Jeff or do you remember the amount of training and training situations (mock searches etc). Edited April 27, 2006 by Latisha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardog Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Latisha, you obviously learnt a lot from the workshop last weekend, excellent overview of the requirements for the search & rescue canine - elephant stamp for Kristy :p I will maybe just expand a bit more...... You need a breed with strong prey drive, good nerve, solid/ biddable temperament. Agile (not too small and not too large breed) and consider the coat - not a heavy coat and not a thin coat as weather in Australia can be severe - both heat and cold. The sar teams in Australia ar few - at present the Sarda team has the only Internationally accredited dogs in Australia in both area/bush and disaster. There are other teams but don't have full accreditation. At present Emergency Management Australia is viewing the necessity of having the qualified volunteer sar teams accredited to an Australian Standard. Attending the Sydney workshop last weekend was the Deputy Manager Rescue of the NSW Fire Brigade who is intending to standardise Australian qualifications for the volunteer sar teams for disaster. His attendance was really appreciated. The commitment for the training of the sardog from puppy to Level 3 "Full Search Dog" is intense. Starting at basically 7 weeks of age and teaching all aspect of the search and rescue discipline until approx. 9 months, then the training is expanded. Our two dogs were fully qualified at ages of 22months and 19 months. The average age is 3 years but if the dog is taught correctly in the formative months there is no reason why the assessing/testing/qualification process cannot be achieved earlier. It all depends on the attributes of both dog and handler. I took a video with me to the Sydney workshop of River at 10 weeks old doing a search to verify that puppies learn so much from such a young age. We spend every weekend training, travelling to various training areas. We have a purpose built disaster site, many closed schools have been made available for building searches and various bush sites for the area/wilderness training. During the puppy formative months we would train 4 times a week but that would only be in about 10 minute sessions. Any other discipline interfers with the training of the search dog ie: formal obedience etc. We neutralise the pups from the beginning and give them experience on agility equipment to get them used to climbing and to become comfortable on unstable surfaces and height etc. No toys/play items allowed other than the toy reward which is only produced during training. Bonding with the handler is critical which requires spending as much time with each other in the formative months as possible and taking the puppies and exposing them to all surroundings is essential. Over the years a lot of the volunteer sar units came and went - there have been a few in NSW and at present there are no teams that I know of (if anyone knows then I stand corrected). It is difficult to commit to this as the average person has families to consider, work and travel. We have had so many members come and go through the years and it has taken so much time and effort on both parties to train the dogs and handlers to any succussful level - as I said to the group last weekend : "there's a fine line between hobby and mental illness!" It is an extremely gratifying discipline, we thoroughly enjoy ourselves (as can be verified by the Sydney attendees ;) ) and we are training the canine to use his best attribute (his nose -and brain) to save the life of that trapped or missing human. We campaign all year round for funding as we have to have public liability insurance which is a necessity. With the sponsorship of Nestle Purina ProPlan they supplied uniforms, first aid kits, GPS units and Radios, funds to fly our International trainer from Europe for assessing and testing. Taipan Footwear supply us with necessary footwear for disaster training and area/bush searches. We have sausage sizzles and rely on the generosity of the general public organisations and sporting clubs for their support. A local veterinary practice Frankston Heights Veterinary Centre sponsors the care and attention to the sar dog if he is injured whilst training or on deployment. They also assist in conducting a first aid course for dogs for the sardog handlers. Funding is an on going area which has to be monitored at all times as we get no assistance from any government body. While I am posting here I would like to just take this opportunity to mention a small thanks to a few of the people who helped out last weekend: with the first aid: Nurse Cindy (Winterpaws) - thank you for attending to Andrew's torn calf muscle - he is now able to continue with the housework - you will have to stop loitering near public conveniences as the dog will find you every time:rofl: to Robyn (gillbear)who supplied the necessary bandages : Lia (Kavik) & Fiona (Sidoney) who were bodies extraordinaire; Kristy (Latisha) "for wanting to get a Lab" hehehe. Hope this helps - I could go on and on but if I have missed anything specific, please ask. Cheers, Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Posted April 28, 2006 Author Share Posted April 28, 2006 Thanks for that SARDOG and Latisha... loads of information there... few more questions... what happens if you already have another dog in the house... use us for example - Harley will be no more than a dopey loveable pet cause... 1. he's too old (8 months) to be trained as a SAR dog... 2. probable not the right temprement (he's a big sook) and 3. he's a bit on the big size (Great Dane) but what if we got a second dog - a perfect little lab :p - then can we train him to be a SAR dog... it is ok to have a SAR puppy whos undergoing training hanging out with my big dofus?? Also where do training sessions happen in VIC? I work 5 days a week... so training during the week can be a bit difficult... We spend every weekend training, travelling to various training areas Does this mean you spend al of Saturday and all of Sunday training/ travelling to various training areas... Waiting to hear back... - Gillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardog Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Hi Gillian, If you decided that a Labrador was the "one" for you (no bias here!!! lol) then there would be no problem with your GD- you would be living in the pack environment. The new puppy would need to spend most of its time with you in the first 6 months for example - leaving a pup with an older dog tends to develop the bond between the pup and the older dog rather than the pack leader (you). We train at weekends and most of our members can only offer that commitment. The training through the week would be in the initial stages and that would only require 10 minute puppy runs etc. Depending which discipline we have scheduled (area/bush, disaster (rubble) or building searches) we train in 4 week blocks. Travelling to sites is not that far - mostly Melb. metro area but if we have weekend away camps this can be in country Victoria. We do try to accomodate members and find mutual areas if possible. We will only train on either a Saturday or Sunday - but depending on how the training is progressing, one day is sufficient. What area do you live in? We are all volunteers and we all have a life away from the sardog training :p . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Posted April 28, 2006 Author Share Posted April 28, 2006 The new puppy would need to spend most of its time with you in the first 6 months for example - leaving a pup with an older dog tends to develop the bond between the pup and the older dog rather than the pack leader (you). Not sure how I will be able to do this? I work 5 days a week and the puppy will most probably spend the day with my Dane. What area do you live in? South East - Hampton Park - Gillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Were they ever used in NSW Jeff or do you remember the amount of training and training situations (mock searches etc). i can only remember them being used once, but the guy did a fair bit of training there used to be photos of him on the VRA website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Gillian, if your dog is too old for SAR why not try tracking, he is certainly not too old for that. This is the tracking club website for some more info on how to get started - http://www.trackingclubvic.org.au/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrine Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 My instructor in Norway had an abused two year old German Shepard that he started with and he is now a fully qualified SAR dog. I personally don’t think you have to start with a puppy. It all comes down to the drive of the dog. I started my dog when she was about 9 moths old after attending an advanced obedience class and the instructor begged me to train her into a SAR dog after seeing her drive. I only trained for about one year and illness stopped me from going any further. It’s great fun and if you have the time………..GO FOR IT!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 My instructor in Norway had an abused two year old German Shepard that he started with and he is now a fully qualified SAR dog. I personally don’t think you have to start with a puppy. It all comes down to the drive of the dog. I started my dog when she was about 9 moths old after attending an advanced obedience class and the instructor begged me to train her into a SAR dog after seeing her drive. I only trained for about one year and illness stopped me from going any further. It’s great fun and if you have the time………..GO FOR IT!!!! Hi Thrine, From my understanding, countries have different standards. As in any high level endeavour, it normally comes to the dollars$$$$. Normally it is better to start with a youngster, with no issues, solid nerves, clean genetics and from good working lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrine Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 His dog was called out to Turkey and Pakistan during the big earthquakes so the standards pretty high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 His dog was called out to Turkey and Pakistan during the big earthquakes so the standards pretty high For sure. Bearing in mind, his two years of abuse when young, I think the end result was outstanding. Most experts say early imprinting can never be " changed ". Interesting, very interesting. What a credit to your friend and his dog!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 if your dog is too old for SAR why not try tracking I see tracking as more of a sport.... I really want to get myself (and my canine) involved in something that's going to be of some use to society (I know that sounds corny) - and SAR fits that well... will try and get to a workshop to have a chat with some SAR handlers - nothing like seeing the real thing! - Gillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardog Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Hi Gillian, Are you going to the workshop with Steve on Friday May 26th? I cannot remember if you said you were going or not! I will be there to "supervise Steve"....lol - with refreshments etc so I can speak to you at length about search & rescue and the requirements etc. (I had a feeling you may be going!) Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Yes Julie - I am going to be at the workshop on the 26th... Looking forward to having that chat with you - Gillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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