Release Command

[pampa]

Can someone please outline how to go about teaching the "release" command

I've tried treats, but am obviously doing it all backwards

My main problem is with sticks on our walks. She goes from stick to stick getting sooooooo agro at said stick and will not even lower her interest in the stick until it is shredded to tiny bits... She then runs off to find the next stick

(BTW I tried a search on "release command" before starting this topic, but I got every single thread with the word "command" in it and thus, gave up... )

[PAX]

This is a bit like how long is a piece of string.

I have had trouble with my dog releasing his kong and what Susan Garrett suggested to do was this.

Hold the dogs collar still and steady with your left hand near your left leg. Hold the item that they have in their mouth with your right hand without tugging or making the item move. Just wait until they let the item go. With my dog this took quite a while (maybe ten minutes) before he let go. When they get the hang of it then add a que word, whatever you like. I say "out". You would need to have the dog on lead at first.

Maybe its a "leave it" you need to teach if she is running from stick to stick, on lead.

You could try swapping for food but my dog wont swap a high value item for food.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: My Triangle of Temptation program builds a very strong release command & also a verbal marker... Look it up on DOL its here...

[TigerJack]

blow on their nose! My dog will release a tug toy etc if I do this.

[hjd]

.

Edited May 3, 2006 by hjd

[pampa]

Thank you all for your replies. As far as the commande itself goes, there is no probs because we speak French and the release commande is "lache", not like anything else in my canine language :cool:

Blowing on the nose doesn't work and her sneezing just makes her clamp down harder

I tried the Susan Garrett method you mentioned Pax and even after almost a 1/4 hour wait, she didn't lessen her grip, nor did she remotely show any signs of doing so ;) I folded in, bored to tears and having trouble holding her still in "sit"... I will try again tomorrow however, seeing that we did not achieve any results today, i don't see that it will help any...

K9 thank you... I'm about to do a search :D

[Staranais]

My main problem is with sticks on our walks. She goes from stick to stick getting sooooooo agro at said stick and will not even lower her interest in the stick until it is shredded to tiny bits... She then runs off to find the next stick :D

(BTW I tried a search on "release command" before starting this topic, but I got every single thread with the word "command" in it and thus, gave up... :cool: )

Hey Pampa, perhaps I'm missing something here. But if your dog gets aggressive with sticks, then why not just prevent your dog from getting the stick in the first place? Instead of letting the dog pick up sticks while you're walking, just don't let her go near the stick in the first place, so you don't have to make her release it (I'm assuming that she's on leash, or has a good recall command, so you can stop her from picking the stick up).

Otherwise, if your dog has an interest in chasing or retrieving, you could try using the "two squeakies" (or "two sticks") method to teach a release command. http://www.nwk9.com/twosqueakies.htm

You could also consider keeping a stick on your person while you are training or walking, to reward your dog for good behaviour. It sounds like it would be a very powerful and effective reinforcer for your dog. Using sticks as rewards would be to your advantage as it would allow you to teach your dog that the best chance of getting a stick comes from obeying you (or following you round, giving you eye contact, whatever you like), not from ignoring you.

Good luck.

[pampa]

Hey Pampa, perhaps I'm missing something here. But if your dog gets aggressive with sticks, then why not just prevent your dog from getting the stick in the first place? Instead of letting the dog pick up sticks while you're walking, just don't let her go near the stick in the first place, so you don't have to make her release it (I'm assuming that she's on leash, or has a good recall command, so you can stop her from picking the stick up).

Thanks Amhailte for your answer... In fact I'm worried that, if she can get so agro on a stick/toy etc. and she doesn't know/obey "release", what will happen the day she decides to clamp onto something more valuable than a stick :cool: Stopping her from picking up sticks is not "fixing" my lack of authority on "release"...

When on a lead, she doesn't pick up sticks... When off-leash (most of the time), if she goes towards a stick, a firm "NO" will usually dissuade her from picking up the stick. I then stimulate her attention with something else to make her forget the stick.

The problem is when we play/when she gets excited...

The two stick method works very well... If I throw a stick, she'll run to get it, start ripping it to shreds until she sees I have another in my hand... She flies back to me with the original stick in the mouth and drops it at my feet when I throw the second stick. She'll play this way for ages and is tireless... I however, am not tireless and as soon as I decide "game over", this is where she will NOT STOP. She will take it out on the last stick until there is only "sawdust" on the ground. This is when she'll run off to find another one. Needless to say, trying to pry her mouth open, cutting her air-pipe, scolding, ignoring and tempting with food don't work and this despite her being VERY interested in food.

I've closely read K9's triangle anrticle and I have begun training...

I didn't expect an "easy-fix" but I didn't expect to have to start her training over, either ;)

You could also consider keeping a stick on your person while you are training or walking, to reward your dog for good behaviour. It sounds like it would be a very powerful and effective reinforcer for your dog. Using sticks as rewards would be to your advantage as it would allow you to teach your dog that the best chance of getting a stick comes from obeying you (or following you round, giving you eye contact, whatever you like), not from ignoring you.

I tried the above this morning... We are going to have to work on it because she walked along, eyes fixed on the stick, dribbling with anticipation and promptly walked right into a park bench :D

I made her obey a few simple commands to introduce her to the idea that obey = reward (ie: stick)...

By the time she "won" the stick, she almost took my hand with it in anticipation (obviously stick was withdrawn and she was corrected for her brutality)... When I offered it to her again and she took it more gently, the stick was sooooo desired, it only lasted about 6 seconds flat

Edited April 27, 2006 by pampa

[Erny]

I tried the above this morning... We are going to have to work on it because she walked along, eyes fixed on the stick, dribbling with anticipation and promptly walked right into a park bench

;) I would've liked to have seen that ..... what a :cool: . Dag of a dog!

Pitty there is no such thing as a 'remote trainer stick' Pampa. Give the command to release, doesn't listen and "bzzzzzt". :D

ETA: Actually, have you tried an e-collar for this?

Edited April 27, 2006 by Erny

[Staranais]

In fact I'm worried that, if she can get so agro on a stick/toy etc. and she doesn't know/obey "release", what will happen the day she decides to clamp onto something more valuable than a stick Stopping her from picking up sticks is not "fixing" my lack of authority on "release"...

Yes, I see what you're saying. It was just that your initial post made it sound like your dog was getting quite possessive and aggressive about the stick, so I wanted to suggest that it might be better to avoid the situation in the meantime if you're worried about your safety.

Even if you're not worried about her getting aggressive about the stick though, making her work for access to the sticks and not letting her have them "for free" will make them a lot more useful as rewards when you're training her.

The two stick method works very well... If I throw a stick, she'll run to get it, start ripping it to shreds until she sees I have another in my hand... She flies back to me with the original stick in the mouth and drops it at my feet when I throw the second stick. She'll play this way for ages and is tireless... I however, am not tireless and as soon as I decide "game over", this is where she will NOT STOP. She will take it out on the last stick until there is only "sawdust" on the ground. This is when she'll run off to find another one. Needless to say, trying to pry her mouth open, cutting her air-pipe, scolding, ignoring and tempting with food don't work and this despite her being VERY interested in food.

I don't quite understand, sorry. When playing the two stick game, I presume you're not throwing the second stick until your dog has already given you the first stick, right? So when you decide that the game is over, why can't you just wait till she gives you the first stick and then just not throw the second stick any more? You'll already have both sticks at this point, so you won't need to pry it out of her jaws or fight for it.

Doing this shouldn't affect her enthusiasm to release the first stick to you, since you'll still be throwing the second stick a whole lot more often than you will be not throwing it.

Or am I missing something?

I tried the above this morning... We are going to have to work on it because she walked along, eyes fixed on the stick, dribbling with anticipation and promptly walked right into a park bench :p

I made her obey a few simple commands to introduce her to the idea that obey = reward (ie: stick)...

By the time she "won" the stick, she almost took my hand with it in anticipation ;) (obviously stick was withdrawn and she was corrected for her brutality)... When I offered it to her again and she took it more gently, the stick was sooooo desired, it only lasted about 6 seconds flat

Your dog sounds a lot like my stafford - is she some kind of bull terrier, per chance?

Anyway, just wanted to say be careful that you're not bribing your dog to make her work: i.e, you don't want her only obeying when she has already seen that you have the stick. You want your command to be the trigger to make her think of getting the stick, instead of having to show your dog the stick before you give the command. So instead of letting your dog stare at the stick and rewarding her for that, put the stick in your back pocket and make her do other things - give you eye contact, heel nicely, drop quickly - and only bring the stick out when she's complied!

And if she's taking your fingers off, you could always throw the stick a short distance instead of giving it to her.

Good luck with your training, and hope all that waffling helped some.

[Rusky]

I would start from the beginning with a toy which is used just for training.

here is a copy and paste from a previous post I answered

"You want her to hold the toy or whatever in her mouth and then release it to you on a command?to teach 'give' try starting from your chair and while you are watching TV. Pop the toy in her mouth count one second and say give and exchange with a piece of food. Then when she holds and gives throw a small distance with your finger on her collarwaitbring or fetch whatever word you like, send her to get the toy.when you have this perfected from your armchair then move on to longer distances like the great outdoors. Remember to praise and reward.I should have said each stage needs to be perfected before you move on to the next."

for your dog on walks I would not take the stick, would totally ignore the stick, when you have the release perfected with a toy, like a rope or something then use that for retrieve.

I think the tug has been perfected by your dog and she loves it :p You absolutely MUST win the toys and you are the one who decides when the game is played and when it is over.

If you ignore the sticks then the game never started and there is no tug.

I like the two stick idea nornally for fun and excercise, I have done myself with a tireless retriever but she always gave me the stick when I asked for it.

[pampa]

Thanks to everyone again...

Yes, I see what you're saying. It was just that your initial post made it sound like your dog was getting quite possessive and aggressive about the stick, so I wanted to suggest that it might be better to avoid the situation in the meantime if you're worried about your safety.

No, she doesn't EVER get agro at me, even when I try to take the stick out of her mouth... She does however, shake her head with such a force it almost rips my shoulder out of it's socket :p

[Lablover]

Hi Pampa,

What is your dog's recall like?

There may be other issues, not simply chewing|?

[pampa]

I don't quite understand, sorry. When playing the two stick game, I presume you're not throwing the second stick until your dog has already given you the first stick, right? So when you decide that the game is over, why can't you just wait till she gives you the first stick and then just not throw the second stick any more? You'll already have both sticks at this point, so you won't need to pry it out of her jaws or fight for it.

Doing this shouldn't affect her enthusiasm to release the first stick to you, since you'll still be throwing the second stick a whole lot more often than you will be not throwing it.

Or am I missing something?

It is ME that was missing something... I was throwing the second stick so that she'd drop the other one, meaning she always had a stick at her disposition

Your dog sounds a lot like my stafford - is she some kind of bull terrier, per chance? :p

How did you guess ;)

BTW her recall is very good, unless she has a stick

[Rusky]

BTW her recall is very good, unless she has a stick

you'll get there, she has the face of an angel

[Nekhbet]

I taught my Mal and my Bordeaux to out in different ways:

Mal:

When she had something in her mouth I stopped playing tug and pulled another toy out of my pocket. I encouraged her to 'out' with a slight tug on the one in her mouth to remind her she still had it and waved the new one near her nose. When she let go I snatched the original, praised and then gave her the new one. She was a baby but understood that though she was letting go it didnt mean she was not getting anything in return. Plus two similar toys meant a transferrence and not the dog telling you 'um no what I have is better then that, i'll keep my mouth shut now' We kept this going until I introduced sit after 'out' so she learned the word I use means 'let go and sit'. some treats works but if his drive is that high then they probably wont.

With the bordeaux it was backwards:

I put some food near his mouth and said the leave it word. He was not allowed to touch or lick the food. When he got the eat command he could have it. This introduced him to the concept of control and me telling him what he could have. I then transferref this to items on the ground. I held them in my hand and told him leave it. I put it on the ground and continued telling him to leave it. I gave him a treat so he wouldnt become too orientated on getting the item as being the reward. This way if he found a dead bird in the park or I drop something he wont snatch it if I tell him. We're still working on him leaving raw bones/meat alone but at least I can put my hand into his god without fear!

errr I was always taught not to blow in some dogs faces because sometimes they will bite! Maybe your own if you see the need (?), but never anyone elses.

[pampa]

you'll get there, she has the face of an angel

Thank you Rusky, she is absolutely adorable and wouldn't hurt a fly and, apart from the stick thing, we have no issues whatsoever. I can take bones off her, can put my hand in her food bowl and the vet can do all "horrible" vet things to her without a problem. She is soooo trustworthy and friendly with everybody... She's a dreadful watchdog

Nekhbet, thanks for your hints...

I actually tried today your first option, the one you used for your Mal... It actually worked !!!

She still unfortunately shredded the stick when I gave it to her once the work session was over (when she had actually given up the stick repeatedly 4 times)... I didn't want to push my luck, so, after the forth release, I gave her a food treat, then handed her the stick as a "reward".

I probably shouldn't have, but she was just about busting her gut to get it, despite her trying hard to understand and obey me... I figured that if she knows she'll get the stick in the end, she will not regret giving it up to me

Anyway, thanks again to everyone who has spent the time to answer me, it is greatly appreciated.

I will be applying some of the other training methods suggested here on all three of my dogs, just to heighten their general obedience and their focus on me :D