Pedigree Pal Natural

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

KmK,

Aaahhh but due to peoples fiddling with breeds we have created dogs with allergies and sensitivities to red meat, chicken, rich meats like lamb and roo, certain vegies...same kind of issues people are finding in themselves...lol.

I'm not so sure about that. I thought it was because of all the additives in dog food and fresh dog meat etc. and the culmulative effects of same.

Oh, no, Abergavenny, that couldn't be right! A processed dog food responsible for making dogs sick! Fancy that!

[O-Ren]

>>she seems to have a kind of eczema (looks like mine!) il take her to the vet for a fresh opinion about wot to feed her, <<

Many dogs have allergies to dry food products. I would suggest switching her to a raw food diet, and removing the dry, processed food from her diet altogether. Aside from the other health benefits, most dogs, once the grain in their diet is removed, show huge improvements on a raw food diet.

>>can anyone vouch for the kibble that actuually ses its Allergy prone dogs specific?<<

No. All kibble is a processed item. Dogs were born to eat raw bones and meat..... not small pellets of processed food remains.

yeh i know, O-Ren was on barf for about 4-5months, ive gone to kibble cos i am low on money atm and having trouble keepin my head above water, dont worry dogs come first, but i bort a huge bag of super coat cos 15dollars that lasts months instead of 3days seemed better, theyl be goin back on barf soon as i have safe income comin in- not sure if O-Ren looked better or not on Barf, but i know she LOVED dinner times- she is obsessed with raw chicken and was less hyper- but atm im tryin to stem this allergy, whilst on holiday it cured itself, now its back, im using quit-itch and it seems to stop her licking and itching but yeh, anyhwo

Proplan make a kibble based on salmon for sentitive tummies and skin...a few people i know have their dogs on it and have been very happy with the results...

il look it up anywayz thanks

Edited April 30, 2006 by O`ren's Silly Mummy

[NaturallyWild]

KmK,

Aaahhh but due to peoples fiddling with breeds we have created dogs with allergies and sensitivities to red meat, chicken, rich meats like lamb and roo, certain vegies...same kind of issues people are finding in themselves...lol.

I'm not so sure about that. I thought it was because of all the additives in dog food and fresh dog meat etc. and the culmulative effects of same.

I strongly believe that it is a combination of both. The additives, preservatives i would say have started the problems, but now over generations the problems are showing up as various sensitivities/illnesses (eg irritable bowel syndrome) where some/many specific foods are not tolerated (now a genetic problem because of the original effect of chemicals). Over time, isolation from additives/preservatives/chemicals, and any sensitive foods, subsequent generations will return to 'normal' good health without these sesitivities. I can see this situation having occured with humans over the last 15 years (or more) but occurs much quicker with dogs because they reproduce so much quicker than we do. A similar situation to this was demonastrated by Pottenger with cats and cooked v non-cooked food many many years ago (30/40s).

[Pink Panther]

But in general...not all dogs do better on Barf

Exactly, we used to feed Stella BARF, but her coat didn't like it at all. She does very well on Eagle Pack Holistic. Bloody expensive, that too!!

[Toomanydogs]

My boys are fed a dry and raw food combo which they do really well on. They get good quality raw meat. I have a great butcher who actually gives good meat scraps. They also get chicken necks,wings etc from Leonards and lots of bones depending on whats available. We are also lucky to have the Steggles factory near by which does really cheap chicken if you go to the factory (2kg breast for $5)

I am having trouble getting bulk dog food in Griffith. (I have 3 large dogs so need to buy in bulk). All I can get is Bonnie Working, meaty bites and meaty bites working or Coprice (which i had never heard of). I dont want to feed working food due to energy levels but I noticed Pal have a new range that comes in bulk. Its in a black and purple packet and has NO colours etc. It is the same brown the eukanuba is. I thought I would give it a go and they seem to love it. I think it is only a new release thing but was a reasonable price. I think off the top of my head I paid $80 for a bag of puppy and a bag of light both around the 17kg price. It smells the same as eukanuba and has the same look and feel (if that makes any sense)

I havent noticed this brand and packaging in the supermarket. Has anyone else used this one......or has anyone heard of Coprice? I used to always use Eukanuba but the only way i can get it down here is in really small bags at the vet. This is not ideal with a ridgeback/lab cross, a BC/kelpie/rottie cross and a new large cross pup

[cactus]

I guess people should ask themselves if they would like a diet that constitutes of dehydrated second rate material for themselves and whatever the answer is then simply apply it for yourselves.

Whether its second rate or not depends on the quality of the comparison (raw) food. I notice also that people who dont feed kibble do not necessarily feed a natural diet- a lot of people feeding BARF give boiled rice, boiled eggs, tinned fish, yoghurt, vegetable oil etc. I'm not arguing against any of that- but just as dogs haven't evolved into bakers, neither have they yet learnt to boil water

After seeing and hearing what dogs eat that they are not supposed to eat- kitty crunchies etc, I really dont think we need compare what we would like to eat with what a dog would like to eat. I have dogs who are predominantly fed BARF, but bring out a bowl of kibble and their drool hangs down like rope.

I have a hard time believing that fillets of chicken or lamb or fish are used in dry dog food and this applies even to so-called premium dog foods

Apparently most people feeding BARF dont feed exclusively feed Prime cuts of meat anyway, and mostly the fish given is tinned so I dont think that it would be any more important that kibble have prime grade meat in it.

it's much more convenient to feed a dog a dry food because all you need to do is pour it in a bowl and hey presto the deed is complete whereas a barf diet is too much like hard work for some people, at least that is what I have been told upteen times by alot of people, both in person and in other forums, I have lost count how many times I have heard that people simply can't be bothered with wasting time preparing a barf diet :rolleyes:

We all have only so much time- some people's time is spread more thinly than others. I remember what it was like when my kids were little, and BARF for breakfast would have been impossible. So long as people are feeding their dogs a decent kibble, I dont think they should be looked down upon for not feeding raw. Its a big responsibility ensuring that your BARF diet is a well banaced one and not lacking in any trace elements- many people worry that they aren't able to do it correctly and prefer to buy a premade balanced food. Fair enough. Raw feeding can be a lot harder and more expensive if you dont own a chest freezer and/or own more than one dog. It takes a lot of thought, planning, time sprent hunting down and preparing the ingredients, and then (in my case) thawing out the portions as they are needed. I understand that this doesn't fit into everyone's busy schedules. Thats okay- I think its better they use that time taking their dog to the park or for a walk on leash. There are plenty of dogs not just doing fine on kibble- but excelling at dog sports, so its silly to dismiss it out of hand as being bad for dogs. There is not a person on this forum who doesn't care a great deal about their dog/s and have its best interests at heart. As with our children, we cant always give them all that we would wish to give them, but if we strive to give our best in regards to caring, training, and loving them then we are pretty good doggy mums and dads.

[O-Ren]

Its a big responsibility ensuring that your BARF diet is a well banaced one and not lacking in any trace elements- many people worry that they aren't able to do it correctly and prefer to buy a premade balanced food. Fair enough. Raw feeding can be a lot harder and more expensive if you dont own a chest freezer and/or own more than one dog. It takes a lot of thought, planning, time sprent hunting down and preparing the ingredients, and then (in my case) thawing out the portions as they are needed.

YES! i totally agree, its tough, but if u get the rewards you were after then AMEN to ya, my dogs get a mixture of both atm, kibble and bones and chicken necks/wings etc- its cheaper and more convinient but only time will tell if its the best for them- i love the saying kitkat used- the best dog food is the food your dog does best on... amen to that

[cactus]

i love the saying kitkat used- the best dog food is the food your dog does best on... amen to that

So I guess the only question that remains to be answered is:

Is there anything quite as revolting as a militant in-your-face born-again BARFer?? I think we need to preserve our sense of humour :rolleyes:

[MolassesLass]

kitkat, I find it incredible that your dog is doing better on a quizzical dehydrated diet, wow wonders will never cease! Doesn't Royal Canin contain BHA, BHT and Ethoxyquin?

Don't expect an unbiased response to this post: KK sells a "leading brand" of kibble with the initials RC.

Will you let go of the bone LM?!

You have NEVER met KitKat, you have NEVER seen her during her casual employment as a rep. for Royal Canin (which she doesn't mention for the benefit of the mods/admin as she feels it would be advertising which is not allowed here), she has never pushed RC over anything else simply for the sake of it, neither here nor in person yet you continue to try and discount her experience and knowledge. This has become not only a personal vendetta of yours (which is clearly against forum rules) but a baiting expedition. Please stop being such a bully.

Zorro, KitKat wants to answer you once she has gotten home and checked the ingredient list on a bag of food. In the meantime their are ingredient lists for all the RC products available on one of their websites, I have no idea if they are the same as what is used in the Australian foods but it's a start if you are genuinely interested in knowing the answer to your question. See here.

ETA: Oh and I don't think it's very responsible for BARFers to try and guilt other owners into taking on this diet regime, because let's face it, it's not easy to get everything right. There will be plenty of very good dog owners who simply cannot get a BARF diet completely correct and it would be more damaging to their dogs for them to be feeding an incomplete BARF diet than a complete commercial diet. For the record, I am a BARFer and my dogs do well on it, but I am not so biased that I think it's the only solution for everyone or every dog.

Edited May 1, 2006 by molasseslass

[bloss344]

Whether its second rate or not depends on the quality of the comparison (raw) food. I notice also that people who dont feed kibble do not necessarily feed a natural diet- a lot of people feeding BARF give boiled rice, boiled eggs, tinned fish, yoghurt, vegetable oil etc. I'm not arguing against any of that- but just as dogs haven't evolved into bakers, neither have they yet learnt to boil water

The way I look at it is that 'wild' dogs followed man and scavenged food. They became adept at eating whatever man left over or was prepared to throw at them. Hence the beginning of the domesticated dog. Before the advent of commercial dog food dog's were often fed only the left overs from the family meal and perhaps a bone or two. Ask your grandma what the family dog's were fed. They survived and often lived long and illness free lives. They are extremely adaptable in regards to food.

Dog's can't boil water or bake, but neither do we expect them to hunt and kill their own food like the original wild dog did, unless you are going to throw a sheep or rabbit into your backyard and let them go for it.

I don't feed a commercial diet but would rather see a dog fed a good quality commercial food than fed a poorly balanced 'natural diet' by someone who is not prepared to do the research and put the effort in.

[Toomanydogs]

[

The way I look at it is that 'wild' dogs followed man and scavenged food. They became adept at eating whatever man left over or was prepared to throw at them. Hence the beginning of the domesticated dog. Before the advent of commercial dog food dog's were often fed only the left overs from the family meal and perhaps a bone or two. Ask your grandma what the family dog's were fed. They survived and often lived long and illness free lives. They are extremely adaptable in regards to food.

Mum still tells the story of boiling up the ox heart for my Grandmothers dog. Grandma used to buy it, boil the crap out of it, and then serve it up. Thats what Ringo the collie cross ate for years. He ended up being PTS aged about 12 with arthritis (this is way before sashas blend etc). Ringo also got dry food, Chum, cooked chop bones and whatever else came off the table

It definately comes down to what YOUR dog does well on. Mine are fed a mix of both and do well on it. When I tried mixing veges etc in they just got pushed to the side and not eaten. I figure if my dog can bury a bone and dig it up two weeks later and eat the maggots off it whilst I nearly vomit from the smell then I am going to let him eat dry food with his raw stuff. He must have guts of steal and his poo looks healthy. Its the same sort of debate as what type of raw meat you should give your dog. Mine love roo meat but do a LOT better on lamb or beef. Their coats are heaps shinier and they are a lot happier.

Dogs are like people in that some do a lot better on certain types of food compared to others.

[sandyl]

Spencer is allergic to dry-food. We've had him on rice mixed with veges & meat for the past week and he's doing MUCH better on it. Maddy has been getting the pedigree natural food. She's doing ok on it.

[KitKat]

kitkat, I find it incredible that your dog is doing better on a quizzical dehydrated diet, wow wonders will never cease! Doesn't Royal Canin contain BHA, BHT and Ethoxyquin?

Don't expect an unbiased response to this post: KK sells a "leading brand" of kibble with the initials RC.

LM - Where the hell do you get off calling my integrity into question and making out that my opinion is bought and paid for by Royal Canin? This is not the first time you have made this intimation and i am far from impressed. Tho it doesn't add much to your argument if all you can come up with is that i work for RC 4 hours a fortnight and so MUST be biased! Oh Please! I've probably recommended ProPlan more then RC on DOL - I only recommend foods that i have seen have good results from - Be that RC, Proplan, Euk, Advance, Barf etc etc...i have even recommended Supercoat, Optimum, and Pedigree Performance depending on the occasion (eg, $$ = what they buy - as in if the dog does well...then great...and the kibbles are better then Pal).

Oh and LM I considered Royal Canin a great dog food before i started working a few hours with them instead of the, so far, two other companies that have offered me like work. I could give you good and bad reports on all food, Barf, EP and RC included...but i can't be bothered as it still comes under what i believe eg that "The best food for your dog is the food they do best on, packaged or unpackaged!"

Zorro - I checked the RC bag i have and it does indeed contain the anti-oxident BHA but it doesn't include the other two. I've taken note of the three things you have listed and it will be interesting to see if other companies list one of more of those. I do know that several of the super premium foods use by-products which was a surprise.

And yes, my GSD does better on a mix of Raw and Dry - on Raw/Barf alone his coat went ratty and dry and horrible, he lost weight (huge amounts of raw did not keep any weight on - any more weight lost and i'd have been reported to the RSPCA i'm sure - perhaps a slight exaguration (sp) but you get my drift) his nose went all dry and crusty and he just wasn't looking as good as he could have. Within weeks of being on Dry with Raw on the side he was looking great, keeping weight on (tho that was a bit of a battle to start with) his fur was looking and feeling decent again etc etc. All in all it's not a choice i would make again for him as it didn't suit him. However i know other dogs on Barf who look fantastic and all i can say is 'fantastic for them' - but it doesn't suit my mob.

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

kitkat, I find it incredible that your dog is doing better on a quizzical dehydrated diet, wow wonders will never cease! Doesn't Royal Canin contain BHA, BHT and Ethoxyquin?

Don't expect an unbiased response to this post: KK sells a "leading brand" of kibble with the initials RC.

Will you let go of the bone LM?!

You have NEVER met KitKat, you have NEVER seen her during her casual employment as a rep. for Royal Canin (which she doesn't mention for the benefit of the mods/admin as she feels it would be advertising which is not allowed here), she has never pushed RC over anything else simply for the sake of it, neither here nor in person yet you continue to try and discount her experience and knowledge. This has become not only a personal vendetta of yours (which is clearly against forum rules) but a baiting expedition. Please stop being such a bully.

Zorro, KitKat wants to answer you once she has gotten home and checked the ingredient list on a bag of food. In the meantime their are ingredient lists for all the RC products available on one of their websites, I have no idea if they are the same as what is used in the Australian foods but it's a start if you are genuinely interested in knowing the answer to your question. See here.

ETA: Oh and I don't think it's very responsible for BARFers to try and guilt other owners into taking on this diet regime, because let's face it, it's not easy to get everything right. There will be plenty of very good dog owners who simply cannot get a BARF diet completely correct and it would be more damaging to their dogs for them to be feeding an incomplete BARF diet than a complete commercial diet. For the record, I am a BARFer and my dogs do well on it, but I am not so biased that I think it's the only solution for everyone or every dog.

You are *absolutely* right about one thing at least: I have never met KK. I also don't mention the brand b/c I know it's touch-and-go with doing so on DOL. I don't believe that my responses to posts by KK regarding her chosen method of feeding dogs have had any element other than that of attempting to balance the comments posted by KK. It helped me enormously to know that she works for that particular manufacturer - up until I discovered that, I didn't understand why her bias was so strongly towards that company's particular products. Now I do understand that bias, and I feel it important to advise others of the bias that might be evident when KK posts their opinions. I also *freely* state my bias towards feeding fresh, whole raw foods. And I also freely state that what I think is based upon the experiences I've had.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that I have a "personal vendetta" against KK, but perhaps you could explain this to me via PM or e-mail. I don't believe the forum pages to be the place for such a discussion.

BTW - I don't push raw foods above all else. Personally, it makes no difference to me what anyone feeds their dog. I've found that fresh, whole raw foods work best for my dogs and I like to share that experience and to compare it to my past experiences with processed foods.

I hope that helps to clear up any confusion that may be out there regarding my posts in this thread. But feel free to PM or e-mail if you think I've omitted something. I'd be more than happy to sort it out.

kitkat, I find it incredible that your dog is doing better on a quizzical dehydrated diet, wow wonders will never cease! Doesn't Royal Canin contain BHA, BHT and Ethoxyquin?

Don't expect an unbiased response to this post: KK sells a "leading brand" of kibble with the initials RC.

LM - Where the hell do you get off calling my integrity into question and making out that my opinion is bought and paid for by Royal Canin? This is not the first time you have made this intimation and i am far from impressed. Tho it doesn't add much to your argument if all you can come up with is that i work for RC 4 hours a fortnight and so MUST be biased! Oh Please! I've probably recommended ProPlan more then RC on DOL - I only recommend foods that i have seen have good results from - Be that RC, Proplan, Euk, Advance, Barf etc etc...i have even recommended Supercoat, Optimum, and Pedigree Performance depending on the occasion (eg, $$ = what they buy - as in if the dog does well...then great...and the kibbles are better then Pal).

Oh and LM I considered Royal Canin a great dog food before i started working a few hours with them instead of the, so far, two other companies that have offered me like work. I could give you good and bad reports on all food, Barf, EP and RC included...but i can't be bothered as it still comes under what i believe eg that "The best food for your dog is the food they do best on, packaged or unpackaged!"

Zorro - I checked the RC bag i have and it does indeed contain the anti-oxident BHA but it doesn't include the other two. I've taken note of the three things you have listed and it will be interesting to see if other companies list one of more of those. I do know that several of the super premium foods use by-products which was a surprise.

And yes, my GSD does better on a mix of Raw and Dry - on Raw/Barf alone his coat went ratty and dry and horrible, he lost weight (huge amounts of raw did not keep any weight on - any more weight lost and i'd have been reported to the RSPCA i'm sure - perhaps a slight exaguration (sp) ;) but you get my drift) his nose went all dry and crusty and he just wasn't looking as good as he could have. Within weeks of being on Dry with Raw on the side he was looking great, keeping weight on (tho that was a bit of a battle to start with) his fur was looking and feeling decent again etc etc. All in all it's not a choice i would make again for him as it didn't suit him. However i know other dogs on Barf who look fantastic and all i can say is 'fantastic for them' - but it doesn't suit my mob.

KK - I'm not calling your integrity into question. I was simply letting the member know that you have what might be called a vested interest in a particular pet food. I appreciated it when another member let me know this information b/c I had asked you why you threw your support behind it so vehmently...without a response from yourself.

And as I keep saying, it doesn't matter to me what anyone feeds their dog/s. I share my experience, opinions and what works for me and my dogs. What is wrong with that? You provide your experiences, I provide mine. I really don't see what the problem is here. I say my dogs do best on raw, whole foods - this is true. You say your dogs do best on kibble with raw on the side - I also assume this to be true or you wouldn't post it. I'm not questioning your integrity, or honesty, or anything else.

I hope there is nothing wrong with me providing my experiences when a poster asks? I thought that was one purpose of these forums - to share experiences and provide help/info/advice if asked?

[KitKat]

, I didn't understand why her bias was so strongly towards that company's particular products. Now I do understand that bias, and I feel it important to advise others of the bias that might be evident when KK posts their opinions.

My bias? my bias to feed what suits that particular dog? The only times i have offered up RC alone is for such as when people have said they have fed this that and the other and aren't sure what to try next...so i offer up RC and because i know the different types often offer up exactly which type to look at...eg Maxi, Giant, Boxer, Lab, GSD etc etc.

However when i have responded to posts regarding quality kibble i offer up all the readily available brands (at least those in Bris anyway) eg, RC, Proplan, Euk, Advance, Nutrience, EP and Hills - Hell...i personally don't even like Hills yet i add that to the list for fairness! And most of the time i have pushed kibble is to balance out your 'feed barf else you are doing wrong by your dog' pose - which you have lessened of late. I had begun to think 'good post' when i read yours...until now.

Oh...and please note - I don't sell food, the shop sells food...i just float around with one of my dogs or my cat, who i feed the stuff to, at which ever store i'm asked to go to, and chat to people and help them to decide which brand of food they want to go with, and which particular type. I'm not a pushy type person to say "buy this, don't use the others as they are crap etc etc". I've often helped people with the other brands and sent them off to the register with a bag of Proplan, or Advance or whatever. And a number of people i've sent away with instructions to google Barf. So...get your facts straight before you start saying that i should all barr be adding to each of my posts "I occasionally work for RC - and here is my perhaps biased opinion...blah blah blah"

ETA - LM...i think i encouraged the person to look at ProPlan, their sensitive one which is based on Salmon...i stated what my dogs were on...but encouraged the OP to check out Proplan...so how does that make me biased to RC? Wait...will RC have to fire me because i offered up a different brand??!!

Edited May 2, 2006 by KitKat

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Gee, should I even reply?

No, I don't think so. You are re-hashing old posts of mine. That's fine.

[sugar]

If KK was pushing RC down our throat (which she is NOT!) then what about Pedigree PAL?

I see it on the TV, I see it at the shops, I see it at the Petrol station out the front, I see it just about everywhere! I see it at the front page of DOL supporting shows. YET, Most people on DOL think PAL is yuk! SO if you have a problem with advertising dog food, then why not stop PALs advertising!!

[Greytmate]

SO if you have a problem with advertising dog food, then why not stop PALs advertising!!

Why not indeed?

[MolassesLass]

I don't believe that my responses to posts by KK regarding her chosen method of feeding dogs have had any element other than that of attempting to balance the comments posted by KK.

Then why do you bring it up even when she is advising another brand?! How is someone biased towards a brand when they are recommending a totally different one?

It helped me enormously to know that she works for that particular manufacturer - up until I discovered that, I didn't understand why her bias was so strongly towards that company's particular products. Now I do understand that bias, and I feel it important to advise others of the bias that might be evident when KK posts their opinions. I also *freely* state my bias towards feeding fresh, whole raw foods. And I also freely state that what I think is based upon the experiences I've had.

I think you are mistaken in your claims of a strong bias, she has a strong knowledge obviously and seeks to help others out when they have questions about said brand because she can. She will recommend what she believe is suitable when asked a general question, it's easy to do a search and see this for yourself.

KitKat bases her opinions and recommendations on what her experiences are, the same as you claim to do. She does not get paid for every (or any) bag of food sold in Australia, so "promoting" that brand here (which she certainly doesn't constantly do) makes no difference to her what-so-ever.

And if you can use your experience to be highly biased towards BARF and your special 3 american foods then why can't KK use her experience to be unbiased across a number of foods and feeding methods without having you constantly throw her casual employment in her face as if to dismiss the validity of her opinion.

Can you not see how this is unfair?

I hope you also have noted the public and honest answer given to Zorro, are you big enough to apologise for your insinuation that KK was going to lie?

I hope that helps to clear up any confusion that may be out there regarding my posts in this thread. But feel free to PM or e-mail if you think I've omitted something. I'd be more than happy to sort it out.

I have no desire to play secret squirrels with you or your husband, if I have something to say to you (that is within forum rules) I will say it where it applies.

[Melisski]

I hope there is nothing wrong with me providing my experiences when a poster asks? I thought that was one purpose of these forums - to share experiences and provide help/info/advice if asked?

And what experience do you have with KK, LM? I fail to see why you feel the need to give 'warnings' about other members likes or dislikes in regards to feeding. O-Ren asked for comments about the new PAL dry food, not your personal opinion of other member's employment oportunities.

Perhaps you truly do mean well, but your posts come across otherwise. Emotions are not adequately conveyed throughout a forum/post and your original comment came across (to myself, and obviously to others) as condescending and catty.

As for the original topic -

its ses it has no artificial colors or preservatives, which is suppose to be good right?

what are your thorts on PALs new marketing thing, its their PAL Natural good? or baaad? or just plain old marketing

It seems very colourful for a food with no artificial colours in it - like Goodos (sp?), certainly doesn't seem natural to me. Wasn't O-ren more hyperactive than when she was on BARF? I'd say (but I'm no expert) she's probably reacting to some preservative or something in the food (natural or not).

Edited May 3, 2006 by Melisski