Walking Past Feral Dogs

[Erny]

I have a similar problem with my critter.

We walk past Feral dogs or dogs that charge the fence and he doesnt bark or try to lunge, he just goes stiff and stares at them and refuses to walk, his ears prick forward and thats him, hes a statue.

A big part of the trick is to get and keep them 'busy' - and this is where working in drive (eg. distraction with ball or other favourite motivator) is really very good. Another part of the trick is to get the dog 'busy' BEFORE he becomes "stiff and stares at them and refuses to walk". Try to increase the distance between you and the dogs behind the fence, at first.

Also, practice working your dog in drive (by playing and teasing your dog with the 'motivator' - 'prey item') at home. This will help in building the dog's determination and interest in the prey item and will be a bit easier to trigger and maintain his interest when other distractions are around (in this case, the dogs behind the fence).

If your dog is not a 'motivated by prey toys' type, you need to do something like working your dog in heel and sits. But be enthusiastic about it and make the releases exciting and fun. Keep active; keep the dog so busy he doesn't have the time and much less motivation to take as much notice of the dogs behind the fence. Working your dog thus, get past the 'dogs behind the fence' as quickly as you can (in other words, don't linger) and once you're past and beyond the point where your dog would show concern, big praise and continue on.

If you can't work your dog's interest up enough to get him beyond the 'dogs behind the fence', work up to just behind the point where your dog would otherwise demonstrate the behaviour you describe. In otherwords, BEFORE the behaviour is exhibited. Then come back (quick recall back away from the 'dogs behind the fence' - don't venture beyond. Use your voice and be VERY encouraging for the dog's compliance to your commands. And remember - always, your main focus should be ON and WITH your dog, not on the other dogs and you should work WITH your dog - keep him very busy with quick sits, quick and fun releases, quickly back into sits, quickly into heel, quick release, quickly back into sit etc. etc. I cannot emphasise working WITH your dog enough - like, you are a TEAM ..... you're both TOGETHER in this and will work each other through it. ENGAGE him onto you and work to keep him engaged.

Hope this all makes sense.

ETA: If there is a danger that the 'dogs behind the fence' can escape, I wouldn't be going there, if I was you. Perhaps speak (nicely) to the owners of the dogs and talk to them about the quality and adequacy of their fencing.

Edited April 28, 2006 by Erny

[rugerfly]

lol BL, ruger does exactly the same walking past other dogs but chucks in the odd back flip and forward roll....haha...

sorry its not funny...

Had my K9 force lesson today with Fly monster so hopefully we can get rid of this sillyness...cant wait to get out there but have to do the baby steps first.

[pawsaroundoz]

Hi BL

Never been a problem until I stayed here in Darwin where there seems to be an abnormal number of unsocialised and feral dogs. Carlin, my own Black Lab is not too bad, he will sometimes want to go sniff but doesn't bark. Clancy is amnother story however! He wants to bark and play....

I have a pocket full of treats and as soon as we get close to one of 'those' houses I talk to Clancy, really get his attention and as we pass, he has now moved on to being rewarded if he hasn't woofed....to start with I rewarded him as we were passing, telling him what a good boy he was for being quiet!

Might work for you too?!

Annie and her boyz

[Lablover]

Black labrador,

Another thread I have hesitated to, add on!!!.

Years ago we used to live in the burbs, but nowadays live in a semi rural locale.

As a result, my most recent experience is from living 9 year in such an environment.

The main criteria nowadays is I have a - turn on - drive cue, so the dogs learn, in time, that the most important stimulus is going to come from me. For example hey hey is used at the most basic level, when a person is tossing a retrieving article while I sit down with a baby puppy.

With distractions, which I am very careful to introduce, when, for example walking past a tennis court or football field, the youngsters become excited (with ball movement), a simple hey hey, will revert their attention to me. Timing is of essence. I always carry a retrieving article in my pocket.

I do not allow aggressive dogs around my pups.

[Lablover]

Yesterday, I trained at a park, performing a few concept drills. There were about 6 pet dogs interrupting our training. This example, reminds me of my dogs focus.

Edited again (gee wizz, I hope I am better training my dogs than on the computer)

My dogs were not so close LOL. Actually 250 yards away. And Fred's dog does not seem, somehow, "happy".

http://www.fredhassen.com/content/vid26.html

Edited April 30, 2006 by Lablover

[PAX]

LL.

Love it, I wanted to bite the brown and white dog as well............lol

[Lablover]

Pax,

I pulled my hair out trying to find this example.

I reckon, LOL, there are a few handler mistakes. Also, this dog has been correction trained. As mentioned the dog does not seem "happy".

Anyone else see it????

[m-j]

Also, this dog has been correction trained. As mentioned the dog does not seem "happy".

Anyone else see it????

Yes It seemed quite uptight the ears and the tail and the calming signals while dropped gave it away, plus walking along like it was about to sit at any given moment. I have seen r+ dogs looking like that (in drops) when they first start learning but once they understood what was required they have stretched out and relaxed.

cheers

M-J

[Mooper]

m-j, by calming signals, do you mean the yawn when the dog was dropped on the road (:rolleyes:) after the 'interruption'? Just interested to learn more

And what are 'r+ dogs' ?

It sounds like BL's problems are sorted for now, but for what it's worth, I had the same thing with Jack when we first brought him home from the pound, two years ago at age four.

He would anticipate the problem houses and would start pulling on lead and panting as we approached. I always made an effort to go past calmly, and we worked a lot on his focus on me. The clicker really helped reinforce this.

Now when we walks past manic dogs, he sometimes gives them a casual glance over his shoulder as if to say 'what's your problem?' and we continue strolling along (with praise from me for ignoring the stimulus).

The cheeky bugger trots along, wagging his tail, if the dog behind the fence gets in trouble from the owners! I swear he has the mentality of a Year 9 boy

[m-j]

m-j, by calming signals, do you mean the yawn when the dog was dropped on the road () after the 'interruption'? Just interested to learn more

yes I did mean the yawn and the lips being licked (all the drops, not only when he was on the road and before the interruption), also a couple of times he briefly looked away as though he thought he had got it wrong. Having said this calming signals don't aways mean the dog has been correction trained, they are just an indicator the dog isn't entirely happy at that moment about something. The tail and ear position were more indicators of a correction trained dog, to me, they were very different when the dog had finished the demo, particually the tail.

Another thing was the fact that the dog dropped while a dog that had just attacked him was a couple of feet away with out so much as a woof even, indicates to me he has been pretty harsh to get that type of complience in that situation ie the dog is more worried about his handler than being attacked by a dog. This is only assumptions made from situations I have witnessed that have been similar, maybe you can get a dog to do that by switching drives from defence to prey (as I think he had a ball in his hand during the demo??) dunno.

I was using the term R+ "loosely" I mean a dog that has been taught to do a behaviour without using compulsion, i.e being moved a into position/place/behaviour by applying physical pressure to the dog, not that this is a bad thing as long as it isn't much pressure and is built on slowly.

hth

cheers

M-J

[Mooper]

Thanks very much for the clarification I'll have to watch the video again for more signals.

[Erny]

... Another thing was the fact that the dog dropped while a dog that had just attacked him was a couple of feet away with out so much as a woof even, indicates to me he has been pretty harsh to get that type of complience in that situation ie the dog is more worried about his handler than being attacked by a dog. ...

The video clip won't run on my computer, so I haven't had the opportunity to view it. I can only imagine what was going on, by the descriptions given in the posts here.

I'd like to add something for thought in relation to the above quote.

When I adopted my girl she was dog/dog aggressive (fear). Over time and with leadership (including obedience training) and desensitisation, she improved. One day, we were walking off lead through a park when a dog trailing it's lead minus handler, ran over and tried to 'rush' her. I stood in to stop this o/dog, but it would run away and then try to dart in from another angle. To make the situation easier for me to control, I gave my dog the 'sit' command (to keep her in one spot) and continued to block this o/dog's attempts to get at her. Kal held the sit (I was so proud ), but if a video clip had been taken of it, you might possibly have concluded from her posture the same as the thoughts in this quote.

No - she wasn't happy to sit in that environment. Her posture relfected her concern about the other dog. BUT she trusted in my leadership and that I would and could control the situation.

In fact, after that event, there was an even more remarkable improvement in Kal's confidence when we went for walks and when we met up with other dogs, which she is now capable of doing without aggressing. IMO, this was because I showed one additional but, to her, SIGNIFICANT sign that I definately, without doubt, was 'leader' ..... ie I took over the function of guarding and protecting and exhibited my competency in doing so.

The purpose of the above is to demonstrate that the posture you see in the dog in the video (as portrayed by your posts - as said, can't view the video) may well be from the fact the dog is merely uncomfortable with the circumstances, albeit that the dog may well be prepared to comply with the handler's command and trusts the handler will competantly deal with the situation and keep it safe. It might not be a reflection of harsh handling, as posed here.

ETA: Another brief example: Dog (that I know of) - extremely aggro to people. Over time, behaviour modification and training has resulted in the dog looking at the owner whenever it is in a position it feels uncomfortable/threatened.

ETA: Another brief example: Kal - who used to have fear to strangers. Through behaviour modification and training learnt to sit whenever strangers were walking towards us. Got to a point where she would see someone on the footpath and automatically sit. Didn't like the situation, but learnt that she was never harmed (and actually was praised) when she sat, so she offered the position without command.

Edited May 2, 2006 by Erny

[PAX]

Erny,

The dog (a BSD Mal) is heeling back and forth on a footpath with two staffy type dogs fence fighting it through a chain mesh fence. Eventually one of the staffys climbs the fence and attacks the Mal . I agree that the dog doesn't look happy but thought it could be from all the other dogs swearing at it. I thought the dog was very foused on the handlers hand like it must be food trained or toy trained.

I think a dog would have to have very high drive to be able to cope with that situation.

Lablover your dogs probably would. I would like to see if my dog could work under that distraction but thankfully i don't know any dogs that behave like those two.

[Erny]

Thank you for that description, PAX. Without seeing the video, I do wonder why someone would work in that fashion until the frustration level was such that caused the dog to jump the fence. (Or, for that matter, work in front of a fence where it was possible for an aggrevated dog to jump it in the first place. ) As said, though, can't view the video.

I agree with you PAX. Fantastic results from working dogs in drive can be achieved and I will prescribe to using that asset to the dog's and handler's benefit whenever possible, but not ALL dogs possess the level of quality we need to serve the purpose and some behaviour issues need more urgent attention than would be allowed even if we can build on the 'drive'.

Edited May 2, 2006 by Erny

[Lablover]

I was concerned also, LOL, about the dog being commanded to drop, on a road. I had images of a car running him over.

[m-j]

Hi

I have started a new topic as this is going OT, I find talking about stress during training very interesting, I have my own thoughts on it but also love hearing about others thoughts. It is difficult as body language is so hard to describe.

cheers

M-J