Puppy Biting, Help Needed

[weetbix4011]

Hi,

We have just picked up our 8 week old Border Collie pup and are having problems with her biting our feet, shoes, pants etc when we are walking in the backyard. I have searched and read other posts on puppy biting, and understand that, yes, puppies will bite and most will grow out of it.

We had our first puppy school lesson last night (first one the puppies dont come, just the owners) and were told that when she does bite our feet/shoes etc, to stand up, turn around and ignore her.

I have also read on these forums that we should be saying "NO" or a word that she will associate with herself doing something wrong?

I have tried standing up and ignoring her today but when i do tell her "NO" sometimes she is coming back while im ignoring her and continues to bite and tugg on my shoes, pants etc.

Should i just be presistant and keep standing there till she stops? Or say "NO" again?? Say "NO" and go inside for 5 minutes??? It just seems like she is still having fun even when we are ignoring her.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. She is a great pup, we just want to be able to walk in the backyard without her running around our feet nipping at them.

Cheers

[Nekhbet]

Yup. be PERSISTANT and CONSISTANT. And never assume that a dog will just grow out of it, if it does something that is a) unsafe or b) destructive then YOU be the one to teach it out of the behaviour before it becomes an ingrained habit. I have had people who have just let the pup 'grow out of' nipping, jumping, tugging the lead etc and then have a 30kg uncontrollable dog.

Hold out, you have that ability. When the pup sees no reaction from you and being ignored it will settle. Yes it may take a little while but if you hold out till it ploks down and stares at you wondering why you wont play then you will win. It will take some time, remember its not an overnight thing and your puppy will want as much contact and button pushing as it can cram into a day but it wuvs you hehehe

I'm not one for yelping like a puppy when it bites you as you are not a littermate but a senior member of the pack. Growl a big loud NO (you wont freak it out, really put some feeling into it) and the pup will get the idea. If the pup barks back then growl a little louder and look down at it so it knows that talking back is a no no!!

If it continues tugging, ignore a little more and if it gets too severe dont look, move towards it or talk at all. Stare at the sky and quietly and calmly go inside. If the pup whines ignore it.

When you play as well keep things calm and quiet. If the pup associates you playing with becoming a complete lunatic then there is little chance of having constructive learning sessions, but if from day one the puppy learns that mum likes things calm then it will be easier down the track.

Black and white, clear definitions of right and wrong will help the pup understand. And most of all have patience! As you dont expect a human toddler to ride a bike dont expect a baby puppy to just be perfect little angels in a few days (even though they pull out those mushy looks heheh)

WE WANT PHOTOS!!!!!

[Doglicious]

Our puppy is doing the same thing. We're a big fan of saying 'NO' in a very stern voice. He totally understands it. We hardly ever use a loud or stern voice with him and he seems to have picked up that no means no pretty quickly. They told us to imitate the littermates at puppy school and yelp etc but he just thinks this is a hilarious joke and a sign to do it more. Persist with the strict 'no'.

[Genevieve]

No - definitely Ignore your puppy when doing something you do not want. Behaviours that are rewarded will continue and behaviours that are not will go away. Saying No to a puppy maybe a reward to that dog, and the behaviour will continue. Some puppies whom maybe sweet and shy in nature will cringe and they may not bite again, but at what cost to your relationship with your new friend.

Sounds like your puppy class is up to date and teaching you the correct method on how to raise a puppy. Puppy classes that recommend growling like a dog and free for all play sessions are now a thing of the past. Thank Goodness

I bet if you check the qualifiacations of your instructor they are very up to date.

[Nekhbet]

the point of growling no is to teach to introduce the puppy to a verbal reprimand. If it if s short sharp NO and then ignore we have reprimand and punishment. The pup has to learn a command that will deter it later, if the only thing you do is get up and leave it it will get confused. Later you will have to only say NO once and the pup will understand that 'oh ok I'm being naughty and i've had my warning'.

Engaging in somthing like touching, talking to it, repeating NO several times or saying it weakly will be play to the pup. One big loud NO and you will see the little face go 'uh oh I did wrong' and then ignore. You must follow up with ignoring it so it puts 2 and 2 together.

[Devo]

My puppy has been doing the same thing.. But it's hard to ignore him when he's bitting me and his little sharp teeth are really hurting..

We say 'NO' and he just comes back for more.. I try and calm him down but it doesnt work..

last night he went nuts for about 40 mins, I wanted to cry.. LOL

[Nekhbet]

devo you need to introduce a sin bin. Get a crate or the laundry, grab the little bugger and put him in there till he settles. Ignore him completely.

[Devo]

Would putting him outside to his kennel be the same?

[Genevieve]

Would putting him outside to his kennel be the same?

Devo,

I would soldier on with ignoring your puppy completely for doing the wrong thing. If you wish to say something try "oops" and then reward immediately the calm behaviour that you want. It is hard to scream "oops" at your puppy, but if you would like to give him some feedback that he has not suceeded in gaining a reward from you, this could be a word you use.

You don't want to be punishing a new puppy by screaming at it. and as you said, he just keeps on going with his biting. No punishment working there or the behaviour would have stopped.

Pups mouth really badly around 12-14 weeks old, owners must do their upmost to ignore, if it means removing the puppy from you if the puppy is really excited, than do so. Not as a punishment or a sinbin, but as time away from you where the puppy is not practising the behaviour. Yelling or saying no to a dog does nothing at all.

Good Luck

[Devo]

Thanks for the words!!!

Today was also his first day outside playing on his own, so i hope he will be a little more tired and calm when he comes inside.. raher than being cooped up in the house all day!

Will let you all know how i go!

[nobul]

No - definitely Ignore your puppy when doing something you do not want. Behaviours that are rewarded will continue and behaviours that are not will go away. Saying No to a puppy maybe a reward to that dog, and the behaviour will continue. Some puppies whom maybe sweet and shy in nature will cringe and they may not bite again, but at what cost to your relationship with your new friend.

Sounds like your puppy class is up to date and teaching you the correct method on how to raise a puppy. Puppy classes that recommend growling like a dog and free for all play sessions are now a thing of the past. Thank Goodness

I bet if you check the qualifiacations of your instructor they are very up to date.

I dont mean to be rude BUT dont think of getting a Bull Terrier that sort of instruction just leads to disasters. As a BT is very dominant in nature not being strict in the first place is disasterous. although screaming at them like an ogre is not correct , but a short growl NO is a lot more effective.

Although I definately agree on not letting them free play, another bad disaster waiting to happen.

Edited April 26, 2006 by nobul

[sugar]

DEALING WITH NORMAL PUPPY BEHAVIOR: NIPPING AND ROUGH PLAY

When puppies play with each other, they use their mouths. Therefore, puppies usually want to bite or "mouth" hands during play or when being petted. With puppies, this is rarely aggressive behavior in which the intent is to do harm. Because puppies are highly motivated to exhibit this type of behavior, attempts to suppress it or stop it are unlikely to be successful unless you give your puppy an alternative behavior. The goals of working with this normal puppy behavior are to redirect your puppy's desire to put something in her mouth onto acceptable chew toys and to teach her to be gentle when a hand is in her mouth.

Encourage Acceptable Behavior

Redirect your puppy’s chewing onto acceptable objects by offering her a small rawhide chew bone or other type of chew toy whenever you pet her. This technique can be especially effective when children want to pet her. As you or the child reach out to scratch her behind the ears (not over the head) with one hand, offer the chew bone with the other. This will not only help your puppy learn that people and petting are wonderful, but will also keep her mouth busy while she’s being petted. Alternate which hand does the petting and which one has the chew bone. At first, you may need to pet or scratch your puppy for short periods of time, since the longer she’s petted, the more likely she is to get excited and start to nip.

Discourage Unacceptable Behavior

• You must also teach your puppy to be gentle with hands, and that nipping results in unpleasant consequences for her. Teach your puppy that nipping "turns off" any attention and social interaction with you. After a nip, look your puppy right in the eye, and yell "OUCH" as though you’ve been mortally wounded, then ignore her. Leave the room if you must, but ignore her until she’s calm, then try the chew bone and petting method again. It’s even better if you can coax your puppy into a sitting position using food. It may take many repetitions for her to understand what’s expected.

• Nipping and mouthing hands can also be discouraged by loosely holding your puppy's lower jaw between your thumb and forefinger after she’s taken your hand in her mouth. Don't hurt her by squeezing too hard, just gently hang on so that wherever her mouth goes, your hand hangs on. This will quickly become tiresome and she’ll eventually pull away. After several seconds, release her jaw, but continue to offer her your hand. If she licks or ignores it, praise, pet and offer a tidbit. If she closes her mouth on your hand again, repeat the procedure.

• A third alternative is to wear cotton gloves coated with a substance with an unpleasant taste such as "Bitter Apple." In this way, your puppy will learn that "hands in mouth taste bad." For this method to work, every time she nips your hand she must experience this bad taste. The possible disadvantage to this method is that your puppy may learn "hands with gloves taste bad and those without gloves don’t.

• Remember that any of these three methods will probably not be effective unless you work hard to teach your puppy the right behavior by offering her an acceptable chew toy.

Jumping Up

When your puppy jumps up on you, she wants attention. Whether you push her away, knee her in the chest or step on her hind legs, she’s being rewarded for jumping up (even though it’s negative attention, she’s still getting what she wants).

When Your PuppyJumps Up:

• Fold your arms in front of you, turn away from her and say "off."

• Continue to turn away from her until all four of her feet are on the ground, then quietly praise her and give her a treat. If she knows the "sit" command, give the command when all four of her feet are on the ground, then quietly praise her and give her a treat her while she’s in the sitting position.

• When you begin to praise her, if she begins to jump up again, simply turn away and repeat step two, above. Remember to keep your praise low-key.

• When your puppy realizes that she gets no attention from you while she’s jumping up, but does get attention when she stops jumping up and sits, she’ll stop jumping up. Remember, once you’ve taught her to come and sit quietly for attention, you must reward her behavior. Be careful not to ignore her when she comes and sits politely, waiting for your attention.

What Not To Do

Attempts to tap, slap or hit your puppy in the face for nipping or jumping up are almost guaranteed to backfire. Several things may happen, depending on your puppy's temperament and the severity of the correction:

• She could become "hand-shy" and cringe or cower whenever a hand comes toward her face.

• She could become afraid of you and refuse to come to you or approach you at all.

• She could respond in a defensive manner and attempt to bite you to defend herself.

• She could interpret a mild slap as an invitation to play, causing her to become more excited and even more likely to nip.

Never play "tug-of-war" or wrestling games with your puppy if you’re having a nipping problem. These types of games encourage out-of-control behavior, grabbing, lunging and competion with you. These aren’t behaviors you want her to learn.

A Note About Children And Puppies

It’s very difficult for children under eight or nine years old to practice the kind of behavior modification outlined here. A child’s first reaction to being nipped or mouthed by a puppy is to push the puppy away with their hands and arms. This will be interpreted by the puppy as play and will probably cause the puppy to nip and mouth even more. Dogs should never be left alone with children under ten and parents should monitor closely all interactions between their children and dogs.

[weetbix4011]

Thanks for your replies everyone. We have been growling NO and ignoring her when she does nip. As soon as she stops and sits down she gets attention again. This seems to be working as she hasnt been nipping as much and responds to NO a bit better now.

Cheers