Choker Chains

[baileykira]

HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WHEN I FIRST JOINED OUR LOCAL OBEDIENCE CLUB THEY WILL ALLOW YOU TO TRAIN THE DOG USING A FLAT COLLAR OR MARTINGALE BUT PREFER CHECK CHAINS WHICH IF USED CORRECTLY ARE NOT CHOKE CHAINS ,THE SAME RESPONSE CAN BE ACHEIVED USING A CLICKER AS EVENTUALLY THE DOG RESPONDS TO THE CLICKING NOISE PRE CORRECTION ,THEY MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE ONLY ONE COLLAR ON THE DOG DURING THE TRAINING SESSIONS.IT IS VERY HARD IF PEOPLE IN THE CLASS ARE GIVING THEIR DOG FOOD EVERY FIVE SECONDS IN THAT TYPE OF CLASS,YOU HAVE THE LABRADORS ENTERING THE TRAINING AREA SCROUNGING FOR FOOD INSTEAD OF DOING AS EXPECTED OF THEM AND THEN YOU HAVE THE ISSUE OF DOGS WHO ARE LEARNING ABOUT FOOD REFUSAL ECT.

TRAINING IS NOT SO CUT AND DRY IF YOU ARE SURE THAT THIS CLUB IS NOT FOR YOU,OR YOU HAVE RESERVATIONS ABOUT THE CLUB,YOUR DOG WILL PICK UP ON YOUR ANXIETY AND ''PLAY UP'' YOU COULD TRAIN THE DOG YOURSELF THERE ARE VARIOUS BOOKS AND ONLINE SITES FOR DOG TRAINING,HAVE YOU CONSIDERED GETTING SOMEONE TO DO HOME BASED TRAINING WITH YOU ?

YOU COULD START YOUR OWN CLUB,IM SURE THERE IS EXPERIENCED PEOPLE ON THIS SITE IN YOUR AREA

[Alpha]

Having trained under the old school of "must always have a correction collar" but being of the mind of "I will train my dog ,my way"( motivatinal training) and now having reentered the new world of training (motivational with bridge words) I agree with many here. Get some good books, train yourself and your dog...YOUR WAY. Use the school for socialising the pup only...he's a pup, he'll mess up and so can you, make it fun, no corrections...do the down to earth stuff at home. I suggest you train him in the same exercises as you're are doing at school, that way the dog will learn the exercise but YOUR way. And no one will be any the wiser. Are correction chains mandatory? The club I attend will not allow them, except for some larger dogs and then you have to reverse them so they cannot be use to correct. I was training on a fixed collar over a decade ago with one of my dogs and entered a ring once where a judge queried where my correction chain was as the dog had a fixed collar on.

[sheltiesrule]

I'm in the same boat so to speak the club I have just finished puppy training with insist on choker chains....there is no way I will put one on Kasper's little neck....so now I must look for another club

[lab and poodle]

[THE SAME RESPONSE CAN BE ACHEIVED USING A CLICKER AS EVENTUALLY THE DOG RESPONDS TO THE CLICKING NOISE PRE CORRECTION ,

You have missed the point . Clicks mark the required behaviour and precede a treat not a correction.

IT IS VERY HARD IF PEOPLE IN THE CLASS ARE GIVING THEIR DOG FOOD EVERY FIVE SECONDS IN THAT TYPE OF CLASS,YOU HAVE THE LABRADORS ENTERING THE TRAINING AREA SCROUNGING FOR FOOD INSTEAD OF DOING AS EXPECTED OF THEM AND THEN YOU HAVE THE ISSUE OF DOGS WHO ARE LEARNING ABOUT FOOD REFUSAL ECT.

I found it a fantastic oppurtunity to show my lab that I control the food. Scavenge for the food on the ground, then in the car for ten minutes. (He got to enjoy training) A by product of this training is that he never touches food such as groceries or even his treat pouch unless he is told to do so.

I also have seen a lot of dogs trained by the idea that it is the noise of the choker collar that does the work, and I am not impressed. The dogs generally respond best to a correction that causes them some pain. In my dog's case, you would have been welcome to get my dog to sit with a gentle mostly sonic correction around the neck. Having tried, I find running head first into a wall more interesting. Hence I crossed over as they say. It can't be too bad, my walls do have the odd title on them or so.

I think time has moved on. if we don't change over to more humane modern methods otherwise it will be done for us by way of legislation.

[Staff'n'Toller]

I'm in the same boat so to speak the club I have just finished puppy training with insist on choker chains....there is no way I will put one on Kasper's little neck....so now I must look for another club :cool:

We are fairly lucky in Melbourne, there are quite a few positive clubs around, might mean you need to travel through a couple of suburbs to get to one though.

Try the Delta Society link for further info. :D

Mel.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Staff'n'Toller

[MonElite]

My club allows check chains, martingales, flat collars or head collars - as it is a trialling club not many use head collars. Treats and toys are encouraged (although I get strange looks for 'spitting' food! :D ). I use a martingale and toys and treats. They would have issues with a prong. One of the members it turns out knows myzska from another club and has issues with the use of a prong (came up when I was talking about K9 Force seminars - she mentioned prongs) - you should have seen her look when I said Yeah, so what?

Who? how? when?

Ill telll you how I have overcome my prong problem, copy if you wish, or join me at my club ;)

I was always acitve in my ob club, more as student, but helped to get the gear out, stayed back to put the gear back, refilled wated containers etc.

Since my dog was dog agro "everyone" knew me. Instructors appreciated that I come every week and try. they asked me to be an instructor from the next season.

Then Rex went missing (during the summer break) and came back somewhat wrecked and certainly mega dog agro.

I wrote an article to the club magazine, and cried my heart out to some instructors. At the time I also seeked help from K9 and implemented stuff, that included the prong.

Came to the club with the prong, told the instructors that I have seen the pro and this is basically what I have to do, so they have a choice of kicking me out or letting me do what a pro recommends.

Becouse at the time I was undertaking the internal course to be an instructor and they knew me as a responsible person that tries to fix the dog, they let me stay and do my own thing. I said Ill hide the prong etc.

Months went by and they could see that there is an improvement in my dog. :cool:

Than I got the chief instructor on "my" side and she now is also a K9s customer.

Although we dont promote the prong to the students, I certainly have achieved a blind eye - and to me that is all that mattered, in a way.

so whoever is coming tot he drive w/shop - you can chat to the chief instructor of my club and ask directly if you will get a blind eye ont he prong if you join our club.

Im not saying she will say yes, but what have you got to loose?

[Rusky]

A great book available from ebay is

The power of positive dog training

by Pat Miller

There are also masses of positive training programmes on the net with step by step directions

[MonElite]

Oh, in addition to what was said here already and in relation to the prong.

Not every dogs needs a prong, not every dog needs a martingale. Its an individual thing.

I have had a mally bitch in a class recently , on a flat collar and a halti. That is in one of the top classes, so the dog is fairly well trained. I asked the owner why the halti and if she would like to try to work the dog during the class on the normal collar she had (flat) she didnt want to telling me her dog is all over the place on the flat collar.

I took the dog, did the magic trick I learned from K9 gave the leash back explained to the lady what needs to be done.

She reluctantly worked the dog ont he flat collar, and after 20 minutes started to appreciate what she was achieving.

She stayed back after the lesson and couldnt thank me enough, shaking her head in disbelief how simple that was.

so a very large pulling dog DIDNT require prong, check, halti, or a martingale, she was fantastic on a flat collar.

[baileykira]

i didnt say the check chain was like a clicker but some dogs respond to the links in the chain moving before they are corrected neither of my two dogs have EVER had a check chain around their necks i use only positive training methods ie dog does well dog receives verbal praise the dog only receives food treats after leaving training arena it is not fair to have dogs scrounging around for food when there are other people around who do not wish to train their dogs in this manner. it can be chaotic during off lead training excercises not to mention dangerous having big boofy labs bounding up on you whilst training your dog cos you have food in your pocket this happened to an older gentleman in my next door neighbours dog class he had to have surgery when pushed he fell over his own dog and broke his hip.

And no i have nothing against labs my family breed pure bred gundog labs they are however renowned as food lovers

[lab and poodle]

i didnt say the check chain was like a clicker but some dogs respond to the links in the chain moving before they are corrected neither of my two dogs have EVER had a check chain around their necks i use only positive training methods ie dog does well dog receives verbal praise the dog only receives food treats after leaving training arena it is not fair to have dogs scrounging around for food when there are other people around who do not wish to train their dogs in this manner. it can be chaotic during off lead training excercises not to mention dangerous having big boofy labs bounding up on you whilst training your dog cos you have food in your pocket this happened to an older gentleman in my next door neighbours dog class he had to have surgery when pushed he fell over his own dog and broke his hip.

And no i have nothing against labs my family breed pure bred gundog labs they are however renowned as food lovers

I gues I would like to politely comment on what you have said. Food is a great motivator, lots of experiments and trials have shown this. To not use food as an education tool is to lose a very valuble aid. Praise only is a very weak motivator, and is only effective for some dogs.I also use toys, access to other people, dogs, runs, tone of voice more trainingand so on and on. I think the time has come for those who don't use food to learn to train their dogs to not get distracted by it. We go for walks and kids throw food everywhere.. can't not take the dog for a walk just because there is food around. As far as off lead exercises go, if I as an instructor think that a dog is going to only respond to having a lead on, then the lead will not come off. It is a waste of time for the dog and the handler.

The club has a duty of care to not allow big boffy labs or other breeds to go running up to other people willy nilly food or not.It is dangerous full stop. Where is the control and consideration ? This is a perenial issue, and is best dealt with at the class level. My opinion which is a bit on the harsh side, is no CD or similar no run around the club grounds.

Lab and Poodle