Dogs Dinner Before Your Dinner

[KismetKat]

Ooooh erny I like that idea! Though I may put on weight doing it!!!

Makes good sense though, thanks for that

Well Erny didn't specify that the biscuit had to be be a tim tam

[shoemonster]

What other kinds of biscuits are there?

[Erny]

Well Erny didn't specify that the biscuit had to be be a tim tam

Nor did I specify that you HAD to bite the end off one corner and suck your cup of coffee through it. ;)

Edited April 21, 2006 by Erny

[caffiend42]

We've always fed our boys before we feed ourselves just out of convenience.

What we do ensure is that when they are given their food they have to wait a period of time before given the "code word". I think this helps in establishing who their pack leaders are.

Given that the school of thought when disciplining a dog must be immediately upon seeing any infringement, and not 2 minutes later, surely a dog isn't going to link the fact it was fed half an hour before you to being dominant over you, let alone any longer time than that?

Oh, and it's heaps better if you suck kahlua or baileys through your timtam

[KismetKat]

Oh, and it's heaps better if you suck kahlua or baileys through your timtam

oooh, that sounds SERIOUSLY yummmy!

but does it work as well if the liquid isn't warm/hot?

[Pippi]

Oh, and it's heaps better if you suck kahlua or baileys through your timtam

oooh, that sounds SERIOUSLY yummmy!

but does it work as well if the liquid isn't warm/hot?

Works well whatever you do - warm, hot, cool, cold who cares. After a couple of cups and a couple of tim tams you feel too good to care Works well in a glass of port too....

[pawsaroundoz]

Hi All

Whilst I am well aware of the whole dominance theory thing re me eating before the boyz I have to say I have never noticed that it makes much difference. (maybe they have heard about my culinery skills, or lack of, and take pity on me? )

I like to eat my tea and then relax, the boyz are always outside whilst i eat tea anyway.

Interesting post!

Annie and her boyz

[Erny]

After a couple of cups and a couple of tim tams you feel too good to care Works well in a glass of port too.... ;)

And before long you completely forget about feeding your dog at all ......

[rastus_froggy]

My dogs are doing the "ruff love" training at the moment so they are definately being fed AFTER i eat as they have to be hand fed so my hands get slobbered all over!! and i like to go soak in a nice hot bath after that, maybe i should transfer the tim tam and alcohol idea to the bath!!

I had had what i think of as lack of respect issues from my staffies - one imparticular, the female, so i am really cracking down on all the dominance things, been doing the "ruff Love" training for only 1 week and can already see great changes.

[Guest Clover]

Our dogs get fed whenever, it can be before the humans, after and whilst we are eating. I have been getting tough on them lately abouting waiting to be realeased to eat and the first few nights i did this again i had Clover breaking her "wait" and stealing a bit of meat. I did not know what to do in this situation.. Erny? i just made her sit and wait again for a longer period of time.

[shoemonster]

Yeah I do the same if they break their wait, say arrgg and make them wait again for the rest of it, not much else you can do is there? I definitely don't let them keep eating

Oh and I've heard chocolate teddy bear biscuits work well with a hand and a foot bitten off to suck through!!!

[cactus]

I didn't used to have to even *think* about any of this stuff, but since Zara came into my life I have to think about this sort of stuff ALL the time. Initially I had to do as erny described- I'd prepare their food so they could see it, sit and eat a cracker, where they could see me, then put their food down where they could see it and keep them in a sit-stay until I gave the cue to eat.

Now I still make them sit and wait for the cue (the more respectful she has been of me, the shorter the time) but I dont worry about the cracker any more. The more simple little rules I make and enforce, the better she is- I get no unwanted behaviours, but give that bitch an inch... :thumbsup:

[sas]

A behaviourist advised us that if we were in the situation where we simply couldn't eat before the dog (or if you don't want to) then grab a biscuit and have the dog sit whilst you're prearing the food and then eat a biscuit in front of them...nice and slowly, tell them they're good when they are and then once you have finished you then give the dogs their dinner, seems to work fine for us.

We don't do it all the time, I guess we just judge what foster dogs we feel need it. I'm not sure the whole eat before your dog is really that important.

Edited April 22, 2006 by sas

[Staff'n'Toller]

So, to keep it simple and easy, I say it doesn't really matter when the humans eat compared to that of the dog. Merely prepare the dog's meal in its bowl in full view of the dog, on a bench where the dog can't reach it. Have a human biscuit next to the bowl. Take the biscuit, turn around and eat the biscuit in view of the dog. Then take the dog bowl and give the dog its meal.

This method has always intrigued me- we are trying to convey to the dog that we are eating from his bowl then giving it to him, as the next member down in the pack order.

I don't believe we can ever be sure that the dog perceives it that way though- what if the dog thinks that *he* is eating from *our* food bowl?

We can't ever presume to think that dogs perceive things the way we do.

I think meal regimes are highly anthropomorphic, I've never read anything to suggest otherwise- it links back to our old 'wolf pack' falacies.

Leadership is holistic and all embracing, it's what you do with your dogs all day long that makes the difference, making them work for the resource is more important than how the resource is presented.

Mel.

[snobbybobby]

Hi all,

My two get fed in the afternoon after their walk.

I have made it a point to ask them both to sit before I put their meals down and then they have to wait for the cue to start.

They will wait a considerable time, at some stage beginning to drool before they break their "wait".

They know that they just can't go in and start before the say so! They will even do this for yummy treats when asked. :rolleyes:

I don't understand the thinking behind making the dogs wait until the humans have eaten. What does it prove?

JMHO

Henrynchlo.

[Mel774]

I think meal regimes are highly anthropomorphic, I've never read anything to suggest otherwise- it links back to our old 'wolf pack' falacies.

Leadership is holistic and all embracing, it's what you do with your dogs all day long that makes the difference, making them work for the resource is more important than how the resource is presented

I don't understand the thinking behind making the dogs wait until the humans have eaten. What does it prove?

JMHO

Oh but it makes us mighty leaders feel soo good :rolleyes:

[Erny]

Hi Mel. I don't presume your post (or that of the post from where the quotes were taken) were directed at me, but I would like to reiterate that I've pretty much made reference to this element of 'leadership' not necessarily being the act that makes much if any difference to the dog's attitude. However, as I've also mentioned, where a behaviour issue exists, it does not matter to include it as part of the regime simply to cover all bases.

Experience has surprised me when an improvement to an issue can be made when even the smallest of "leadership regimes" is applied, even though the relevance of it has and continues to be argued by esteemed experts. Whether these 'small' things make a difference or not greatly depends on the individual dog, but what matter if it is applied?

Sometimes I often think that the application of these 'regimes' actually assists the dog's owners by programatically and routinely teaching them to 'act' assertively in the presence of their dog. Whether it is the actual "act" itself that sends a message to the dog and achieves a positive response, or simply that their owner has, by rout, become habitual in routine and assertiveness with the way the dogs are regarded/treated, the 'argument' (old or new) does not, IMO, matter one iota if the 'system' is working.

I think I also previously mentioned that when "issues" are resolved, it is possible to relax one of the "lesser important" factors at a time, and note whether this then makes a difference to the individual dog. In the end, what matters is that unwanted behaviour issues are resolved.

Edited April 23, 2006 by Erny

[cactus]

I don't believe we can ever be sure that the dog perceives it that way though- what if the dog thinks that *he* is eating from *our* food bowl?

I dont think it matters whether the dog thinks we're eating from its bowl or it from our bowl. The point is that they are having to wait their turn- the leader goes first, then everybody else. When I first got Zara, this ritual made an amazing difference to her behaviour and *attitude* toward me. I still make her wait before she is allowed to approach her bowl- depending on how well she has been, that can be anywhere from 1 minute to 30 minutes. I only make them eat after me if I happen to be eating at the same time (which is rare) its also an opportunity to teach them not to stare and drool while people are eating. I've noticed that if I have their meat etc out on the bench earlier to defrost, sometimes they will get pushy and want it earlier- but I dont allow them to dictate when I do *anything* so until they behave and stop 'asking' for it, they dont stand a chance of getting fed at all.

[Zia's Nuthouse]

Very interesting thread :cool:

Here at the Nuthouse the pets always get fed before us. I too don't consider it a problem unless you really have dominance issues. Even then I think there are better things you can do rather, than hang out their feeding till you've had yours. NILIF is great for the other things I was just referring too. For most it's just more practical to feed the animals first. It gets them out of the way so to speak, so you can concentrate on other things.

My cat gets fed in the laundry, and my two dogs get fed outside. They are always made to sit and wait for the cue before eating, are fed a few feet apart and neither dares touch the others bowl. Very harmonious. All three of them know the routine. They sit quietly in the kitchen whilst it is prepared, then they all follow me, down the hallway, first pitstop is the laundry for the cats :D , then the outside for the dogs.

After they have had time to finish, and go toilies, and have some time outside, then they come back in. When it's the humans turn to eat they are relegated to their beds. Food begging doesn't happen here and isn't tolerated if one of them does try it.

So I guess it works for us, and everyone seems to find a medium that works for them too

[Erny]

Even then I think there are better things you can do rather, than hang out their feeding till you've had yours.

To a degree, I agree with you Zia. But as you will have read here, there's no need to "hang out their feeding" until after yours. All you simply need to do is eat something in front of them before they are given their meal, if you wish to be demonstrative in this area.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Erny