Urban Dog Owners Take Lead In Sheepdog Trials

[Kelpie-i]

There are plenty of dogs that already fit the "suburban trialler" tag- no need to breed for them, however I feel this would be inevitable if city herding became popular. What would they breed for I wonder??? A dog that is highly sociable, doesn't shed, great working abiltiies, good with children and doesn't need training.....(sorry being sarcastic!)

Please keep this civil so that everyone can enjoy it if they so wish.

ML, take a chill pill - I was only joking!

I have certainly seen the difference between the BC and Kelpies working (not that I work with BCs, but just what I've seen in trials and in obedience). I suppose I like the spunk of the kelpie and the fact that it can think for itself (which can have both it's negative and positive side to it).

We'll need to get some well organised city based yard utility trials organised and see what happens.

HG, you'll have to wait until my little champion is all grown up and ready to kick his/her father's butt!!!

[Kelpie-i]

It's back!!!

[herding_guy]

HG, you'll have to wait until my little champion is all grown up and ready to kick his/her father's butt!!!

If my breeding is right then she/he should be better than her dad. I may have to keep one for myself

In all fairness to my choice of herding breeds, the Kelpie, they are more inclined to do things for themselves. He doesn't like too much correction because by nature he is a fairly natural worker and once the rough edges are knocked off his early waywardness, he feels he knows the job better than his boss. He just wants to get the job done but at the same time never wants to finish. What more could you want. Gotta love 'em.

To those that are budding or would like to be budding triallers what do you want need?

More yard utility trials, 3 sheep trials, training grounds, trainers?

[MolassesLass]

ML, take a chill pill - I was only joking!

Perhaps, but given there are numerous people on this board who are striving to breed working breed dogs that are excellent triallers AND good "city" dogs, I think the "joke" was extremely poor taste and not funny in the slightest.

I suppose I like the spunk of the kelpie and the fact that it can think for itself (which can have both it's negative and positive side to it).

And I think that is a very narrow minded view of those breeds (or perhaps a factor of the BCs & Kelpies in your area).

And for those wondering where it temporarily went, I assume it was due to my request to have it removed (due to the already starting working vs. "show" crap) was considered and denied.

[Pippi]

And for those wondering where it temporarily went, I assume it was due to my request to have it removed (due to the already starting working vs. "show" crap) was considered and denied.

Shame you thought that was necessary. I can't see anywhere where the 'show/working' debate looked like raising its head. Maybe BC/Kelpie debate but thats par for the course..

[Kelpie-i]

And I think that is a very narrow minded view of those breeds (or perhaps a factor of the BCs & Kelpies in your area).

ML it is unfortunate that you feel that way, however having owned and still do own, Australian Working Kelpies, I make my statement based on experience. A Kelpie IS bred to think for itself, this is what they are and this is what they will always be like, unless people start to breed this trait out of them.

The difference between the two breeds is very evident in field trials and I believe to think otherwise is narrow minded in itself. I say this with all respect to both breeds.

Perhaps, but given there are numerous people on this board who are striving to breed working breed dogs that are excellent triallers AND good "city" dogs, I think the "joke" was extremely poor taste and not funny in the slightest.

All the power to those on this board who are striving to breed the "best of both worlds", however there are some individual dogs (not breeds) that are better suited to a rural working environment and will never make good "city" dogs. I see them in the training centre each week with their helpless owners - this is reality and certainly not a laughing matter.

What I do find funny is people who call other people narrow minded - yet are the epitome of the word themselves. Unless of course you are prepared to share your views on the 2 different breeds.

Now are you talking working as in "real working" or working as in "trialling" as there is difference between the two?

Edited April 20, 2006 by Kelpie-i

[Kavik]

For those of us in the city from talking to others finding sheep is the hardest bit! I will get to find that out when I get my little terror.

I want to go have a look at the different trials - I have only seen yard trials. Would be good to see the difference. I have seen a video thanks to sidoney which showcased different working styles - it was very interesting.

The people I have talked to have said that BCs make better 3 sheep trial dogs than Kelpies, and that some breed BCs for 3 sheep trialling, I hadn't realised that it could be that specific.

[Kelpie-i]

I would like to see a 3 sheep trial myself.

[herding_guy]

For those of us in the city from talking to others finding sheep is the hardest bit! I will get to find that out when I get my little terror.

I hope that more training groundds can be made available. It's not very hard to set something up if you can find someone with a bit of land, Sheep can be leased and rotated often. Try and get a group together and see what you can do.

I want to go have a look at the different trials - I have only seen yard trials. Would be good to see the difference. I have seen a video thanks to sidoney which showcased different working styles - it was very interesting.

So, from what you have seen do you prefer the yard utility or 3 sheep. I know I prefer yard utility but I am biased because of my dogs

The people I have talked to have said that BCs make better 3 sheep trial dogs than Kelpies, and that some breed BCs for 3 sheep trialling, I hadn't realised that it could be that specific.

IT gets even more specific when talking about selecting dogs for landscape, stock to be worked, climate, type of work etc etc.

My young girl will work three sheep well but it's yet to be seen wether she will be good in 3 sheep trialling. I have been told if you are serious abut 3 sheep than you should only work yor dog on 3 sheep. This makes sense as it is very different working 3 sheep to 5.

[MolassesLass]

The difference between the two breeds is very evident in field trials and I believe to think otherwise is narrow minded in itself. I say this with all respect to both breeds.

I never said nor implied there aren't differences between the breeds. I simply stated that a blanket statement of "Border Collies can't think for themselves" is narrow minded or perhaps due to the BCs you have in your area.

All the power to those on this board who are striving to breed the "best of both worlds", however there are some individual dogs (not breeds) that are better suited to a rural working environment and will never make good "city" dogs. I see them in the training centre each week with their helpless owners - this is reality and certainly not a laughing matter.

Sure, who said there weren't such dogs? Running BC Rescue here in Qld, I often get to see the products of working line BCs sold to "city" homes. In fact, check out the website and you will see three such examples. Not all completely unsuited to "city" life but certainly not working out.

What I do find funny is people who call other people narrow minded - yet are the epitome of the word themselves.

I assume you are implying I'm narrow minded about something, care to share?

Now are you talking working as in "real working" or working as in "trialling" as there is difference between the two?

If you are speaking of my reference to "working breeds" then I mean breeds of dogs traditionally bred to work stock (as opposed to the other types of working - earthdogs, gundogs, protection dogs, sniffer dogs etc).

Shame you thought that was necessary. I can't see anywhere where the 'show/working' debate looked like raising its head. Maybe BC/Kelpie debate but thats par for the course..

Tis a shame, I'll know better in the future. And why should it be "par for the course"?!

[Kavik]

The yard trials I've seen were fascinating! Watching them push the sheep and run on the backs - that was really great! I haven't seen 3 sheep trials so don't know how they compare.

[herding_guy]

The yard trials I've seen were fascinating! Watching them push the sheep and run on the backs - that was really great! I haven't seen 3 sheep trials so don't know how they compare.

I love yard utility trials - they are IMO more exciting. We've had trials where dogs have to move sheep onto and through inspection ramps, trucks, trailers etc. It's the diversity of these trials that make them attractive or appealing to the public.

[Sparty]

I want to do utility trials ...if i can ever organise a time and day to get to herding guy LOL

Come on pippi lets mob him

[Guest Clover]

Dave i would love to see more places to train in the future . I too love watching yard trials, more so than 3sheep. Depending on how Tinny works out i would like to try her in 3sheep (I'll keep dreaming), but the way it is looking she may be more suited to yard trials (Feisty lil girl that she is), she could completly suprise me though so we'll wait n see.

[Kelpie-i]

I don't know about other states but there are yard trials here in Vic at certain locations. Pity they are all so far out.

A good place to see some excellent skills being put to the test is at Casterton during the Queens Birthday long weekend. It's known as the Casterton Kelpie Muster but there are BCs there as well.

On the Sunday before the Auctions they show off each dog that is up for sale. You get to see all the yard work as well as truck work etc. Some of the dogs blow your mind with their skill.

Dave, perhaps you'll have to organise some yard trial days very soon (grin)

[herding_guy]

It's known as the Casterton Kelpie Muster but there are BCs there as well.

Hard to keep out the riff raff

...but in all seriousness this is the place you will see about 100 dogs put through their paces. There is no other event like it in Victoria, well worth a visit.

Dave, perhaps you'll have to organise some yard trial days very soon (grin)

It will be done!

[Kelpie-i]

Hard to keep out the riff raff

Cheeky

Cannot wait for the City Slicker Yard Trials - yeeehaw

[wally2020]

Hi All

I thought I would put my point of view across. I am from the country, near Seymour, Victoria. I trial my Avenpart Kelpie in Three Sheep, Yard and Utility Trials. My Dog will also work Sheep or Cattle, in the yards or Paddocks at home in the hills.

When you talk to alot of farmers now they will not touch a Border Collie here in Victoria that has had anything to do with Three Sheep Trials, because they are not able to work the mobs. All they want to do is work a few.

On the other hand Kelpies are being more and more bred towards Yard work and are losing the ability to work outside, or do a Three Sheep Trial.ata; name="dosubmit"

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I will try again

Hi All

I thought I would put my point of view across. I am from the country, near Seymour, Victoria. I trial my Avenpart Kelpie in Three Sheep, Yard and Utility Trials. My Dog will also work Sheep or Cattle, in the yards or Paddocks at home in the hills.

When you talk to alot of farmers now they will not touch a Border Collie here in Victoria that has had anything to do with Three Sheep Trials, because they are not able to work the mobs. All they want to do is work a few.

On the other hand Kelpies are being more and more bred towards Yard work and are losing the ability to work outside, or do a Three Sheep Trial. You go to a Three Sheep Trial in Victoria and tell me how many Kelpies you see. Not Many and it is the same with Border Collies in Yard Trialing.

The problem with having City based Trials is that, you have to be able to have a suitable venue, you have to be able to source 300+ sheep to run a trial, there are country based trials that are having trouble doing this. There are many different diseases that sheep can pick up from different places and farmers just don't like lending out there sheep.

City people are quite welcome to come out to the "country based" trials, everyone would make them feel welcome and it is a very friendly atmosphere.

Herding guy I was wondering where I might have see you at a trial???

Wally2020

[mjk05]

Dave, perhaps you'll have to organise some yard trial days very soon

Why don't you guys get a group together and go to an upcoming yard trial? It could be a great weekend getaway! I understand (Wally may have a better idea) there are LOTS of yard trials around Victoria. Even if you're not keen on competing at your first trial, its a brilliant way to learn by watching and helping out (there'll be no complaints at a group of extra helpers ) and you might get some invites to training days or other trials. And you can rustle up a bunch of country competitors to come to any "city yard trials"

I think Vic and NSW have a heap of yard trials compared to WA (we have just a handful of utility trials, incorporating yard runs), so there are lots of dates and venues to choose from. Contact the VWSDA, they'd let you know!

[herding_guy]

Hi Wally,

Have not been to any trials this year to busy with other things .....I need some weekends off but will be out again very soon with some new pups I hope.

You may have seen me at Neerim, Warrigal, Port Albert, Welshpool haven't been to any up your way for a long time. If you've ever watched a high jump I'm the one with the big male red and tan boy that wins. :wink:

There are a number of BC men still trialling in the Yard Utility I'd say it was about 20% of the entrants at Welshpool last year. Infact my bitch was beaten by a BC - they are very different working style dogs to the 3 sheep BC though.

I don't think that Kelpies are being bred more and more for yard work only - I just think it's the way more and more people are utilising them. All mine and their lines work the paddocks and most of the breeders I now are selecting for all rounders. Generally speaking IMO I just don't feel they are a suitable selection for 3 sheep although I now their are some dogs out there doing it.

I'm looking up the next trial up your way and I'll make point of getting there.