Schutzhund Training

[Tapferhund]

Chell,

Yep that annoys me too and it is amazing just how many think Schutzhund is "attack" training only and when you mention Obedience and Tracking,they flately refuse to believe it.

Only the other day,on another forum,someone stated that Schutzhund is training a dog to attack to "bring a man down".

Geeeeez !

[Sparty]

I usually discuss and compare our tracking training with the father in law on sunday nights so i know it is a lot more than bite work, i was more concerned about dangerous dog classification comments on previous shutzhunde threads i wanted to get to the bottom of

[Chell]

Hi Sparty my comments were not aimed at you at all, i hope it wasnt taken that way ands its great when people know others that do the sport because it does give you a better idea and not just the misconceptions.

I hope your father in law doesnt encounter too many hassels and red tape when he does try to move over here.

[sfg-shep]

i want to know where to attack train my dog aswell

[Jeff Jones]

maybe you should of sort out reputable trainers before you made the investment in buying a dog you want trained to be a PPD,

from your posts you know nothing about what it takes to train a dog for protection so i am interested in how you went about in selecting a suitable puppy.

maybe when you answer some questions posted by members trying to help you on the forum you might be paired up with a suitable instructor to guide you through the training process.

[bridgie_cat]

this is probably a dumb question.... but what is shutzhund training?

[kerama]

Hi Bridgie Cat,

Schutzhund training or as it is now know IPO was established to select only dog and bitches of correct character for breeding. The training involves training the dog in Tracking, Obedience and character testing ( or protection as many incorrectly call it).

The dog must first past a BH ( Temprement Test) on the field and in the street before it may be allowed to compete in IPO trails. In Europe it is a prerequisit for many breeds to pass at least the SCH 1 test to be considered for breeding.

If you go to the AUSC web site at www.sportdogaustralia.com you can read more about it. Please remember though the final stage of the trial is to test the dogs abiity to handle stress and only a dog of good character can do this. Also dogs and bitches that are trained and compete in this sport are more likley to pass on the stable traits and the trainablility then those that are not. Simular a working Kelpie is more likely to pass on the working traits than a kelpie that comes from a long line of city dogs that have never worked.

BTW under the new rules any breed can now compete and even a Skipperke has passed.

Regards

Karen

[Jeff Jones]

ot, karen you wouldnt happen to be from qld would you?

[kerama]

ot, karen you wouldnt happen to be from qld would you?

Hi Jeff,

No sorry not from QLD, I am from Towrang NSW Southern Tablelands

Regards

Karen

[Jeff Jones]

ahh sorry had you mixed up with someone else.

[kerama]

Hi Jeff,

That's OK :D

regards

Karen

[NaturallyWild]

Hi all,

was just doing a search on dog training stuff and this is a quote i found on the Department of Primary Industries website in regards to this topic

Protection Training

Protection training is defined as training a dog to attack people or animals and includes the training of a dog to attack a human wearing padded protective clothing for any purpose including sport. It is not considered appropriate for a member of the community who is not a licensed security guard to have access to an attack trained dog and this is reflected in the strict provisions of the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act. Dogs that have received this type of training will be declared as a dangerous dog by a Council.

DPI link

From this it indicates to me that a dog that has Schutzhund training, which is a sport that involves bite work would be required to be classed as a dangerous dog. How they go about obtaining this information from the owners is another matter, and whether the owners come forward with this information. The Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act and the Code of Practice for the Operation of Dog Training Establishments both state that the owner is required to come forward with the details that the dog is about to commence protection work (or bite work in a sport) or is already trained in this asap. Failure to notify will have penalties (don't know what these are exactly).

Although someone mentioned that a court ruling allowed a schutzhund trained dog to not be considered dangerous, you never know what the next judge will rule.

As with all laws - you can get away with them as long as your not found out by the authorities (usually are found out because there has been an incident).

[Kavik]

If it were practiced as written, then just about all GSDs imported from Germany and around Europe would have to be declared dangerous as Schutzhund is part of their breed scheme and they would be titled. But as we know, this is not the case.

[Nekhbet]

If you look at Schutzhund its not 'attack' per sey. The dog is not trained to just eat the decoy, go for anything, any time. Its only to grab the sleeve arm when the dog is directly threatened or if the owner says it can. Hence the dog is simply defending itself and its owner in a controlled manner. Plus Schutzhund being a sport a dog is worked in prey drive (its all a game to the dog), a lot of schutzhund dogs would be no contest in a true life situation because some never achieve defence.

A true 'attack' dog would be one that just attacks unprovoked, on command or usually not. This type of training is irresponsible to me and its usually done backyard. What the law makers dont realise is that attack work doesnt have to involve 'bitework' on sleeves etc. You can make a dog really mean by just unsocialising, mistreating it and giving it a complex about the rest of the world (eg the macho dunderheads that encourage their dogs to bark/lunge at people on the street and then laugh)

Security training again is for the dog to defend its handler on command from a threat. I have seen sport and security dogs, most of them are well trained and HUGE tail waggers and smoochers, even to the decoys they have just been biting. Thats part of responsible training, conditioning the dog to ONLY respond when the owner requires and all other times its to ignore other people to the point of letting itself be touched, patted roughly etc.

True bitework is about obedience and control more then it is teaching the dog to attack. If the government is so worried then maybe they should implement that all dogs that are going to do this have to do a socialisation/obedience course at the same time and pass to an off lead control level.

Edited May 23, 2006 by Nekhbet