BittyMooPeeb Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Peebs has just finished his third session of agility, and he is still no better at weavers than he was at lesson 1 . In fact he is worse now, as when I set him up at the start of the weave poles (with a channel big enough to drive a semi-trailer through) and call him through, he just stays still and turns his head as far to the side as he can in an 'I cant hear you' gesture . Does anyone have any tips? (or similar stories to make me feel better ). We are about to go into the next level, so I am getting desparate! I haven't tried guides. Some people I've talked to say they are great, others say they are no good, expecially for small dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Sounds like avoidance, mine does it too, she just refuses to look at me and won't take treats or anything. Too much pressure perhaps? Get some weavers for home (or keep them in the car like I do) and start small, say work with just four channelled. You could also put boards down the outside (making a race) until he gets the idea. Step right in between the weavers and lure him through. Sometimes they get worse before they get better! Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 IMHO, different ways work for different dogs. What worked pretty well for one of my Border Collies is just not working for the other one. (I'm still experimenting with him!) Here’s a couple of links that may help with alternative ways. Robert Loftus Variety of weave teaching And here’s one on proofing – for when you’ve got the whole weaving thing going! Weaves without worry Barb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vehs Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Is the issue that he can't weave or that he won't listen to you? Is it just on the weave poles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Personally I find the channel method relatively ineffective with a small dog because they can simply run through them until they are very close together. Ditto the angled ones. I favour guides for the littlies and if you haven't tried them its worth a go. FHR and I are your instructors next session so we can work on this in class. You can also just start with four weavers and work from there. Never, never, NEVER give up.... some dogs just take longer than others to catch on, particularly if there are any confidence issues (dog or handler). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooper Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Hey, BMP, Jack and I don't do agility at all. They don't run classes for that in Qbn, and I haven't had time to get him to obedience there this year, let alone join another club! But I've been using a line-up of our Hills hoist and a few citronella garden torches in the backyard of a morning to work on some off-lead heel work. It works a treat! Although for agility, with the poles all of the same diameter, maybe a simple mock-up like this would make things worse ... I don't know. Just food for thought! Jack loves it, so I'm happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rastus_froggy Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Might sound crazy but perhaps try attaching a very tasty treat to the end of a long stick so then if you hold the dogs lead straight up and just try get the dog to focus on the treat rather than anything else, I would start with only 4 poles. But hey, you havent been at it that long!! These things take time. My girl is a super weaver now but i really worked at it, and it still doesnt always take form in the trials!! As was said before never give up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vehs Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 BMP - you can borrow our makeshift weave poles if you want They are just PVC piping, with the sprinkler stakes (after D destroyed the sprinkler system -- see dad, he was just preparing for agility) shoved in the bottom - easy to make! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 (edited) The avoidance sounds like the thing to be fixing here. You need to be unstressed about weaves. The more you stress about his weaving, the more stressed he'll be. Weaving needs to be fun and fast. Don't get hung up on accuracy at this stage or anything other than making it fun and fast. IMO it's very difficult to teach a dog to weave with once a week lessons. Let poodlefan and FHR advise you on the training progression to take. You can make weave poles out of tomato stakes if you want to - anything like that really. poodlefan's suggestion of guides sounds like it might work for you - just make sure you wean off the guides promptly (again poodlefan and FHR can help you) as to stay on guides (or channels or angled poles or anything like that) for too long can make the dog reliant on the aids. Edited March 30, 2006 by sidoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BittyMooPeeb Posted March 31, 2006 Author Share Posted March 31, 2006 Thanks everyone! I've got weave poles at home (only enough room for 4) and he still does the same thing - 'I cant hear you, I cant hear you'. He is great at everything else now, though he used to do the 'avoidance' thing (glad to hear it has a name!) with all the obstacles if he got one wrong. Once he made a mistake (which I just ignore but dont treat) he refused to even try next time Persistance paid off in the end with the other obstacles, so I will - as suggested - keep trying with the weavers. I like the idea of the guides if ithey make it easier for him to get it right. Hi Poodlefan I didnt know you would be taking the class too! Yay I knew that FHR was an instructor, which is why I am trying to get better at weavers before we embarass ourselves in front of you next week Thanks for the links too Tassie, I'll read them over the weekend. and thanks Sidoney and Hannahb for letting me know that it is a problem that others have too - and that it has a name! I like 'avoidance' rather than some of the things previous instructors have called it (insert derogatory comment about spoilt small fluffy dog here ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 (edited) Hi Gail, I've trained Miss Lily through serious avoidance issues.... try a dog that ran away and hid behind my back pack or point blank refused to move. Lil took 6 months of training before she would go through a tunnel without coaxing from within it. I think Peebs probably has no idea what's expected of him in the weavers but knows that you are a bit stressed out.. Shutting down is his way of dealing with the pressure - it was Lils too. We'll talk about the instructor comments in person. BTW, its FHR's class, I'm merely the trusty sidekick! Edited March 31, 2006 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I used the Susan Garrett 2 x 2 method. Here is a video of the result http://youtube.com/watch?v=AfNduEBWaYk Found this method works great if your dog knows clicker and loves toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippi Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I used the Susan Garrett 2 x 2 method. Here is a video of the result http://youtube.com/watch?v=AfNduEBWaYk Found this method works great if your dog knows clicker and loves toys. As you said the video only shows the result, could you explain further what the Susan Garrett 2x2 method is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 It is long and involved, to follow it you would need to buy "Shaping for Success" by Susan Garrett or go to the VCA library and I think it is in one of the Clean Run Magazines. But basically you start off with 2 poles and click and reward the dogs entry's, then you start working like around the clock at different angles, once the dog has this you then move on to 4 poles. Again you work around the clock so that the dog knows how to do entry's from every angle. Once the dog gets it right you throw the toy. Thats it in a nutshell, but if you are going to try this method you really need to read the detailed instructions that are about 3 pages long. But it works. I think it took about 4 weeks, working on it every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BittyMooPeeb Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 Thought I'd update .... we started our new class on Wednesday, and tried the weavers with guides. What a difference! He loved it and was swishing through them in no time - I'm just happy that he even approached the weavers after the last few weeks. I took one of the guides off too, and he noticed, but then kept going through (thankyou too, to our wonderful instructors :banghead:) I have an appt. at Bunnings tomorrow to buy some plastic trellis .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baileyb Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I may not have been avoidance, more likely......."I DON'T UNDERSTAND, MUM". Persist and spend a few minutes every day with your weaving and it will all start making sense to your dog. Generally speaking, weavers are the hardest obstacle to teach as far as agility goes but it will happen.......with time!! TRUST ME!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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