Raw Diet V's Canned Diet

[Crysti_Lei]

my dogs poo said it all for me.

On a barf diet they didn't smell and disappeared in two days.

In her last week or so i was feeding her commercial food coz it was a bit more appetising and easy to eat when she was so sick and i have only rercently found poos down the side of the house that she did during this time, (she died in january). they are white but still there.

Crysti

[zara]

Sorry, GM, I thought we were discussing canned food for canines?

And if that is still the case, my comments on a canned food diet, stand. Why? B/c I understood the OP's concern was that their vet recommended a canned food diet for their pup. That is simply not an acceptable diet for a pup IMO, but more importantly, most vets don't recommend soft foods either...and I have to wonder why this one did. It's just a very odd "recommendation" IMO.

Hi, i may not have worded it properly. I was discussing with my vet my pups diet. I was telling her i feed her a diet of mince and vegies, chicken necks and bones along with dry food. She said to cut out the mince and vegies and feed her canned and dry puppy food only as a raw diet will not provide her with the right amount of nutrients required for her growing body. When i mentioned to her that she won't eat canned food she then told me to give her just dry food. I hope this makes more sense.

[KitKat]

It would be my guess then Zara that your vet just didn't want to risk the pup not getting a balanced diet and has given you the easy way of giving the pup what it needs.

There is nothing wrong with feeding just a dryfood diet as long as you go with a quality brand of dry food - feel free to still give some chicken necks/wings etc if you decide to feed your dog in the way your vet has suggested.

[zara]

Hi Kitkat. Well really all i wanted was opinions on the diets and what other people feed their babies. To basically reassure me what i was doing was the right thing for my girl. After reading all the posts and varying opinions, i have came to one conclusion. I am feeding my girl a varied diet. She gets fresh mince, vegies, bones, chicken necks, canned puppy food, dry puppy food, fish, milk and egg. Not all at once of course other wise i will be doing another post on how to get my dog to lose weight. Since starting on this diet i have found an extreme change in her. She not only looks healthier but is much better behaved. So my conclusion on this matter is as it says at the end of your post.

The best food for your dog is the food your dog does best on! Packaged or Unpackaged!!!

To me this says it all and while my girl is doing so much better on this combination i will be continuing with it. Thanks all on your opinions, it is really appreciated.

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

GM, I am obviously not reading the labels you seem to be quoting, however, generally speaking (which is all I can do, given that I know not from which source you are quoting), 70% chicken, rice and vegetables (total???) means there is 30% "other", does it not?

Anyway, it matters not. A canine does not require rice or any type of grain, nor any cereal, for nutritional needs. A dog also does not need vegetables as it doesn't necessarily eat the vegetation of its prey's stomach contents (when looking at the nutritional requirements of wild canids, this frequently is misunderstood by 'scientists'). A canine doesn't need any cooked foods and cooking reduces the nutritional load of virtually everything the food originally contained.

I am not a "zealot" but I believe the proof is in the eating, so to speak. With my dogs fed on processed foods, they did not do as well as they do now. Lilly (my greyhound) had constant loose and offensive stools. She lost a lot of weight, and given that she was a small hound to begin with, this was obviously not desirable. It was not acceptable to me that she lost around 4 kgs in the first three months with us, and the whole time was spent in trying to find a processed food she could "tolerate". There was one food that sometimes got digested and mostly did not but this wasn't acceptable to me and I began (very slowly and deliberately) to research the possibilities. I ended up reading Billinghurst and then reading Lonsdale, and talking with other pet GH owners about their feeding regimes and what worked for their dogs. I also spoke with her racing trainer/breeder, who recommended raw meat as the primary food, supplemented with vegetables and biscuits (Box One, to be precise). After another three months of difficulties with processed foods, we began a shift to raw, whole foods. Lilly improved literally overnight.

While the other dogs were not doing that badly on processed foods, they certainly didn't thrive. They also smelt fairly awful...their stools were copious and frequent and foul-smelling. Their skin and coat was in poor shape. Their dental health was average...only when I commenced a raw, whole foods diet did these problems resolve, almost immediately.

I have no problem with dog owners that choose to feed a high quality processed food. But IMO canned foods are "junk food for dogs" and no vet should be seriously recommending feeding such foods exclusively or predominately in the diet.

Vets don't study canine nutrition in any degree, I did and I do. I continue to study canine nutrition and to adjust my dogs' diet as a result of what I find. The internet certainly makes research more accessible but also more fraught with danger b/c some sources cannot be independently verified. I do my best by my dogs and attempt to verify what I learn. If not, then I don't follow that lead unless I can have it verified by an expert at some point. I am continuously learning.

There are some good (raw foods) canned diets for the canine. Sadly, I have not found any of these products available in Australia. If or when they become available, they are a reasonable alternative as long as RMBs are also fed (to keep the mouth clean and in good order, to exercise the jaw).

There is one brand of canned food available in Australia that will do in an emergency but it's still cooked foods. So my dogs really only get it in a genuine emergency. Otherwise, I provide them with a raw, whole foods diet, taking their individual needs into account. Ruby has a meat/bone based diet, with a small amount of vegetation, some offal, small amounts of cow's milk by-products (yoghurt, cheese), and the occasional raw egg, plus canned sardines from time to time. Molly is predominately fed the same, while Lilly has a higher ratio of vegetation and offal in her diet b/c she thrives on both!

Perhaps this has helped - I hope so!

[Greytmate]

GM, I am obviously not reading the labels you seem to be quoting, however, generally speaking (which is all I can do, given that I know not from which source you are quoting), 70% chicken, rice and vegetables (total???) means there is 30% "other", does it not?

No, the can only contains chicken, rice and vegetables, 70% of which is chicken. There are no other ingredients, otherwise I would have said so.

Regardless of what you say about cooked foods containing less nutrition than raw, you still have not convinced me that the can that I occasionally feed my dog is unacceptable. It has an adequate level of nutrients for most dogs.

While vegetables and rice may not be neccessary, they do contain vitamins and minerals, and that contributes to the nutrient content in the food, without increasing the level of fat.

There are canned foods that I would give to my dog, and there are canned foods that I would not give to my dog. I do not belive that the brand that I sometimes feed my dog is junk food.

I think that it is quite ignorant to make comments about canned food as if every different type of canned food is the same quality. It is zealotry to automatically condemn something without evaluating it first.

I have also researched dog's dietry requirements, and have noticed that the information that preaches about how inadequate commercial foods are, never seems to be able to go much further than simple comparisons between nutrient levels in a raw diet and a commercial diet, as if all raw diets are of a similar quality, and as if all dogs require the same high level of nutrition. The condemnation of commercial food uses the emotive language and often the scare tactics of zealots.

Far more educational are the articles that explain how and when nutrients are absorbed, stored and used by the dog, how the nutrients get into the food, how and why nutrients are lost from food, and why there are variations in this. With this knowledge, and with observations of my dog's health I am able to decide for myself what level of nutrition is appropriate for my dogs, and what combination of higher or lower quality raw foods, dry foods, or canned foods will meet my dog's needs. It does not matter to me what dogs in the wild eat.

It is quite insulting to be told that because I am not feeding an exclusively raw diet, that I am feeding my dogs junk, that I am feeding unacceptable food, and that I am feeding my dogs food that it does not need. Just because I am given anecdotal evidence of some dogs not doing well on some commercial diets, it does not follow that all commercial diets are inadequate.

I would prefer to be educated about the qualities and value of different ingredients, the consequences of different methods of storing, preparation and processing of those ingredients, and the ways that nutrition is absorbed, used and stored by a dog, than to accept at face value the simplistic, generalised view that if a food is commercially packaged it must be condemned regardless of what the food actually contains.

[Tim'sMum]

Hi Kitkat. Well really all i wanted was opinions on the diets and what other people feed their babies. To basically reassure me what i was doing was the right thing for my girl. After reading all the posts and varying opinions, i have came to one conclusion. I am feeding my girl a varied diet. She gets fresh mince, vegies, bones, chicken necks, canned puppy food, dry puppy food, fish, milk and egg. Not all at once of course other wise i will be doing another post on how to get my dog to lose weight. Since starting on this diet i have found an extreme change in her. She not only looks healthier but is much better behaved. So my conclusion on this matter is as it says at the end of your post.

The best food for your dog is the food your dog does best on! Packaged or Unpackaged!!!

To me this says it all and while my girl is doing so much better on this combination i will be continuing with it. Thanks all on your opinions, it is really appreciated.

Stick to what you are doing Zara.............and ignore all the dry food/barf diet/canned food hoohaa...........!!!!

You will find a few zealots on DOL who seem to think they know everything there is to know about feeding dogs.

Kitkat is correct.......the best food is what your dog does best on...........and a varied diet is good!

[zara]

Stick to what you are doing Zara.............and ignore all the dry food/barf diet/canned food hoohaa...........!!!!

You will find a few zealots on DOL who seem to think they know everything there is to know about feeding dogs.

Kitkat is correct.......the best food is what your dog does best on...........and a varied diet is good!

Thanks. I really do believe that the best diet is what your dog does best on be it packaged or unpackeaged. My pup is obviously doing better on the diet i am feeding her now. I am getting another pup in june and i will also feed him what i see him do better on whether it be the same as my girl or not. As far as i'm concerned being a responsible dog owner doesn't mean feeding a raw or processed diet it means feeding your dog what it does well on.

[Guest talbra]

Greytmate!!!

There are close minded extreminists in every group.

AMEN!

[Erny]

HERE'S a link to an article I've just read from "Housepetmagazine". It relates to processed -vs- fresh. I've not read the whole thing right through yet, but it seems to put up a fairly balanced view and some may find it of interest.

And HERE'S another regarding enzymes.

Sorry GM .... it does come from America.

Edited April 5, 2006 by Erny