Raw Diet V's Canned Diet

[zara]

I am getting a little confused here. Now let me explain my cofusion. In reading other forums on diets, the majority of breeders are recomending a raw diet am i correct? Now on a visit to my local vet she was asking my diet for my pup. In telling her i feed her a raw diet she was utterly disgusted. Lectured me into feeding her processed food. Told me to give her bones, chicken necks and just dry food, as my pup was fussy not liking canned food. Now to me just dry food never seemed enough, so she eventually got a taste for canned food. Was i completely stupid listening to my vet, i mean she is a vet and trained in this area so why not listen. She told me until she turns 12mths old i have to feed her canned food after that she doesn't care what i feed her. Being breeders can you please give me some advice on a diet that will be healthy for her and she will enjoy.

[blacklabrador]

I wouldn't say that the majority of people/breeders recommend raw diet but a lot do. There is a thread on this page about vet and raw food. Most raw feeders struggle with their vet on that aspect.

[~Anne~]

I think you'll find that some scoff at the idea of a barf or raw diet becuase of the potential problems these diets can be associated with.

I believe that some manufacturers of pre packaged barf food (i.e. barf patties and similar) are creating a product that is no better, and sometimes worse, then most commercially availlable canned dog foods.

Also, unless the pet owner has a reasonable knowledge on the specific nutritional requirements of canines (particularly the needs of a puppy)they can be doing more harm then good by attempting to feed raw or barf.

There also seems to be a lot of conflicting and confusing information about feeding your dogs a barf or raw diet and this information becomes even more confusing when the words themselves (i.e. barf and raw) are used in different contexts or to mean different things. e.g I consider that I feed a raw diet to my dogs... other people may call what I feed barf.... but I do not follow a specific 'barf' diet and I do not purchase pre-made 'barf' food.

Your vet probably advocates playing it safe to ensure that your pup gets all the requirements it needs to grow up healthy and happy. I know people can be opposed to commercially available foods and I do realise that most of it is water and cereal fillers but the simple fact remains that these commerically available products are nutritionally covering the basics that dogs need. It may rot their teeth, give them gas or whatever still but they will get the calcium, phosperous and other needs met by these products.

Edited March 28, 2006 by Puggles

[Hazz]

She told me until she turns 12mths old i have to feed her canned food after that she doesn't care what i feed her.

I'd say get a new vet - although the first 12mths are critical stages for development, she should care what you feed your for it's entire life unless she wants to see you more often

To be honest feeding entirely canned food is not doing your new pup any good for its development, 75% of a can of dog food is water/moisture leaving only 1/4 of the can of actual nutrients.

I feed the BARF diet and highly reccomend it but as Puggles said unless you get it right you could be depriving your pup of specific nutritional requirements needed for his/her development. If you want to feed the BARF diet but feel that you would be unable to make a balanced diet up yourself there are commercially available BARF patties (Dr Ian Billinghurst's) that have a feeding guide printed on the side, they can be fed alone or 50% pattie to 50% raw meaty bones (like the necks your using).

If not still ditch the canned food and get a premium dry food and you can still supplement this with the raw meaty bones, sardines, yoghurt etc.

[ravensmyst00]

I am getting a little confused here. Now let me explain my cofusion. In reading other forums on diets, the majority of breeders are recomending a raw diet am i correct? Now on a visit to my local vet she was asking my diet for my pup. In telling her i feed her a raw diet she was utterly disgusted. Lectured me into feeding her processed food. Told me to give her bones, chicken necks and just dry food, as my pup was fussy not liking canned food. Now to me just dry food never seemed enough, so she eventually got a taste for canned food. Was i completely stupid listening to my vet, i mean she is a vet and trained in this area so why not listen. She told me until she turns 12mths old i have to feed her canned food after that she doesn't care what i feed her. Being breeders can you please give me some advice on a diet that will be healthy for her and she will enjoy.

Personally I would have looked for a different vet. But that is just how I am. I have been lucky enough to have a vet that highly recommends and supports the feeding of a raw diet.

Its hard not to listen to a vet as you tend to look at them as an expert in their field and you trust them.

Currently I feed my boy - 800grams of mince and 3 cups of a product called Phuds (similar product to Vets All Natural) and I have no problems with him being on that. Mind you my boy is a growing bullmastiff. My vet loves how I feed him.

I would look at putting your pup back over to the raw diet. Just introduce it slowly and watch how the general health of your dog will improve. I would also look for a new vet if possibe.

That is my personal thought on the issue.

[zara]

Thanks all. Your advice is fantastic. I really did listen to my vet as said she is trained in this. After reading all different forums i started to question her advice. As far as i am concerned she is my baby and wish to look after as i would my skin kids. My skin kids were never fed jar food and always fed a balanced home cooked meal due to preservatives and such c*#2p so why the difference with my fur baby. Can you please inform me on what sort of foods you feed your own babies (fur kind) and what would be best for my baby. I really want to do what is best for her to help her grow strong and healthy always. When it comes to skin kids i know but fur kids it is all new to me. I'm getting there but good advice never goes astray. I will deffinately bo looking for a new vet.

[aranyoz]

Firstly you should realise that vets do not do any great amount of study into canine nutrition and the major pet food companies make substantial donations to vet schools.........HMMMM!

[~Anne~]

Firstly you should realise that vets do not do any great amount of study into canine nutrition and the major pet food companies make substantial donations to vet schools.........HMMMM!

So what? Do you really believe that a Vet will say to himself "gee, I am going to push commercial food because 'so-and-so' brand dog food company contributed to my uni which enabled me to learn and become a vet"..................... Not bloody likely.

[ravensmyst00]

Thanks all. Your advice is fantastic. I really did listen to my vet as said she is trained in this. After reading all different forums i started to question her advice. As far as i am concerned she is my baby and wish to look after as i would my skin kids. My skin kids were never fed jar food and always fed a balanced home cooked meal due to preservatives and such c*#2p so why the difference with my fur baby. Can you please inform me on what sort of foods you feed your own babies (fur kind) and what would be best for my baby. I really want to do what is best for her to help her grow strong and healthy always. When it comes to skin kids i know but fur kids it is all new to me. I'm getting there but good advice never goes astray. I will deffinately bo looking for a new vet.

You can have a look at my website which has a run down on what I feed my boy. The only change is he is now getting 3 cups of the Phuds instead of Science Diet. And he recently put himself on 2 meals a day. (I need to update my website).

Xanders website

Hope this will give you a general idea.

[Hazz]

If your really interested in learning more about raw/barf diets I would suggest googling the subject as well as Billinghurst and Lonsdale, there are also many books on the subject.

[Greytmate]

To be honest feeding entirely canned food is not doing your new pup any good for its development, 75% of a can of dog food is water/moisture leaving only 1/4 of the can of actual nutrients.

The ratio of water to nutrients in some canned food is no different to the ratio of water to nutrients if the dog is fed a raw diet, or if the dog is fed a complete dry food, and drinks extra water out of a water bucket.

I would agree that some canned foods do not have same the nutritional value of a raw or other diet, but some canned foods do, and some canned foods contain a more balanced and appropriate level of nutrition than a poorly balanced raw diet.

Not all commercially prepared foods or canned foods, contain preservatives or other artificial ingredients, so I would not be totally dismissing the vet's advice. As others have said, you would have to go to some effort to make sure that a raw diet contains the neccessary balance of nutrients for a pup. Perhaps the vet is not confident that the average pup owner is able to do this.

Preservatives and artificial ingredients affect some dogs badly, other dogs moderately, and do not affect some dogs at all.

The other point to keep in mind when reading about dog nutrition is that more nutrition does not neccessarily equal appropriate nutrition for your particular dog. Give a dog higher levels than it requires and the dog might get fat, or have very nutritious poo.

[Miranda]

Firstly you should realise that vets do not do any great amount of study into canine nutrition and the major pet food companies make substantial donations to vet schools.........HMMMM!

So what? Do you really believe that a Vet will say to himself "gee, I am going to push commercial food because 'so-and-so' brand dog food company contributed to my uni which enabled me to learn and become a vet"..................... Not bloody likely.

No, but I certainly believe that some vets will recommend that their clients feed the specific dry food that they sell at their veterinary surgery.

If you've ever attended a puppy pre-school at a veterinary surgery you will see what I mean, they always recommend that the attendees feed their puppies the brand of food that they sell.

Some vets may not do this, but in my experience 90% of them are guilty.

[ravensmyst00]

No, but I certainly believe that some vets will recommend that their clients feed the specific dry food that they sell at their veterinary surgery.

If you've ever attended a puppy pre-school at a veterinary surgery you will see what I mean, they always recommend that the attendees feed their puppies the brand of food that they sell.

Some vets may not do this, but in my experience 90% of them are guilty.

The vet that I with currently is the first one that hasnt pushed Eukanuba or Science Diet on me. Its also the first one that has said not to use Drontal all wormer as well. They have it at their clinic but neither of the vets recommend it.

All other vets I have been to have pushed X - brand dog food and have pushed the use of Drontal. Why because unfortunately they do get kick backs which usually go towards equipment for the clinics.

The same thing applies for your local GP.

[Hazz]

The vet that I with currently is the first one that hasnt pushed Eukanuba or Science Diet on me. Its also the first one that has said not to use Drontal all wormer as well. They have it at their clinic but neither of the vets recommend it.

All other vets I have been to have pushed X - brand dog food and have pushed the use of Drontal. Why because unfortunately they do get kick backs which usually go towards equipment for the clinics.

The same thing applies for your local GP.

I, like you Ravensmyst00, am likely with my current vet. He doesn't push any dog food brands or other products and is fully supportive of our BARF diet.

[~Anne~]

No, but I certainly believe that some vets will recommend that their clients feed the specific dry food that they sell at their veterinary surgery.

As do I but there is a logical explanation for that scenario though - vet buys product - vet resells product and makes a profit.... the more the vet sells, the more profit. Logical. He is running a business after all. I am sure that he may also personally believe the product has some merit or at least that it will not harm the pet otherwise he wouldn't sell it.

[stari]

I feed my Dobe pup completely on the BARF diet. He gets chicken carcasses or wings or some Scottys roll for breakfast and lamb flaps or necks or chicken mince with pulped veges, offal, a fish oil capsule and a multivitamin for dinner. I add an egg and some yoghurt to his mince twice a week. He also gets a whole mackeral for breaky once a week.

My 16 month old staffy gets a combination of bones, carcasses and high quality dry food. If I give the dobe bones or carcasses for breaky, he gets one too, but his dinner is dry food with an egg and some yoghurt.

My 11 year old staffy gets a carcass once a week, and her dinner is completely high quality dry food with an egg every so often.

All my dogs are very healthy and active, have great teeth and shiny coats, are not over or underweight and have no gastric problems.

I guess it comes down to what you feel comfortable feeding them, in the end. I would love to have all my dogs on the BARF diet, but my old girl's tummy can't tolerate it (she gets awful wind and diarrhoea when she has too much raw food), and the young staffy is a bit the same...he gets bad gastro when he has too much raw food.

[~Anne~]

All other vets I have been to have pushed X - brand dog food and have pushed the use of Drontal. Why because unfortunately they do get kick backs which usually go towards equipment for the clinics.

The same thing applies for your local GP.

And again I will disagree. I have worked for many vets and I was responsible for ordering stock in some of the clinics and I can categorically say that I, nor any vet I have worked for, ever took 'kickbacks' that went towards equipment for the clinic.

Quite frankly, you are wrong and you are only perpetuating a stupid myth.

Vets push products they beleive in and they push products that they will make profit on. Plain and simple. Sometimes if the drug rep is particularly good at building a good rapport and developing a relationship with the vet and or nurses then a person may be more inclined to buy their products over others but otherwise...........

[Safadao]

My vets were not in favour of the Barf diet, (i felt anyway) not becuase they prefered us to buy their brand dog food, more they were concrened that correct levels of vitamins, minerals, protiens, fats and sugars would be very hard to monitor ... especially for a new pup. Where I go, science diet is on display, and for sale however they rattled off a number of other brands that are also recommended taht they don't sell. I find this reasonably neautral stance pleasing.

I still feed my dogs raw foods, I just rely on the bought dog food for a complete balance that I really think I would have trouble offering. I mean, the more research you do in even having a complete diet for yourselves, the more difficult everything becomes.

[Erny]

No, but I certainly believe that some vets will recommend that their clients feed the specific dry food that they sell at their veterinary surgery.

If you've ever attended a puppy pre-school at a veterinary surgery you will see what I mean, they always recommend that the attendees feed their puppies the brand of food that they sell.

Could this be because the Vet/Vet Clinic don't know that much about the nitty gritty of nutrition and therefore find it easier (ie a scapegoat) to simply refer to the foodstuffs they sell?

Is it also possible that, if the Vet gives advice on what to feed in a raw diet, and it was wrong and affected the pup, the pup's owner could take some sort of action against the Vet?

Maybe the Vets are covering their backsides .... if they recommend a commercial food and the commercial food is wrong, it would be the commercial food company that stands liable .... no?

Some vets may not do this, but in my experience 90% of them are guilty.

I agree .... On more than one occasion, before I can even open my mouth to explain the complications/difficulties I'm having with my dog's condition (ie illness), I'm having prescription food shoved down my throat (pardon the pun).

[Roxy Lady]

Hi,

My mum has owned dogs ever since i was a kid at the moment she has 3 2 staffies and a bully and all she ever feeds them is dry food and kitchen scraps, when they were pups they got canned puppy food and puppy biscuits but as soon as theyre old enough they are onto dry food only, also this is the same with most of my friends, and all theyre dogs are very healthy dogs.

With my bitch when she was a pup started her on canned puppy food and puppy biscuits then it was just canned food and biscuits, but i found if i ever changed the brand she would get the runs. Now she is on chicken necks and dry food which i think is heaps better then the canned food i was feeding her. Thats just my opinion.