Vets And Raw Food

[Ruffles]

Loki was VERY sick on sunday night - yesterday morning so he was off to the vet.

Whilst going through the usual elimination (not poo's hehe) process we got to the "What do you feed him" bit.

We feed Loki half raw/half processed, just because I'm not at the fully raw stage yet.

He gets Chicken Necks, little bit of meat (gravy steak or something) and some veggy/fruit mush as well as his eukanuba.

Anyways, after I told the Vet what we feed him I got this response

"Why? Why do you feed him raw food? Why Chicken necks? Why would you give chicken necks to a large dog (he's 5.5 months old!!).... You should really feed him rice with any raw food you give him. Just get him a big marrowbone to chew on. He doesnt need to eat chicken necks."

Why do they seem to have a problem with feeding raw food?? I just do not understand... Surely its better for them. and RICE???

It just drives me that I get the third degree for doing what I thought was the best for my boy.

The vet was saying how healthy and bright he is and what great teeth and coat he has (despite the fact he was sick) so its not like what we're feeding him is not doing him good.

I know this is a bit of a rant and probably isnt particularly coherent but I was just soooo annoyed when I left the vet yesterday. Needless to say we didnt discover why or how he got sick but he's better thats all that really matters to me!

thanks for listening

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

Ruffles

Dogs need fibre to maintain the health of the large intestine and to prevent constipation, it also helps to prevent colitis and bowel cancer. One of the sources for this is rice. Very often when a dog has had a tummy upset and diarrohea the recommended diet is a bland one of chicken and RICE, or plain cottage cheese and chicken.

From my experience with bones, marrow or otherwise, it gives mine the trots so I feed raw chicken wings instead

[tramissa]

Ruffles

Dogs need fibre to maintain the health of the large intestine and to prevent constipation, it also helps to prevent colitis and bowel cancer. One of the sources for this is rice. Very often when a dog has had a tummy upset and diarrohea the recommended diet is a bland one of chicken and RICE, or plain cottage cheese and chicken.

From my experience with bones, marrow or otherwise, it gives mine the trots so I feed raw chicken wings instead

The introduction of rice and grains into a dog's diet is very recent.

I personally do not believe that they require rice and grains for fibre. Especially not if providing an adequate raw diet. Rice is used mostly to bulk out food to make it more filling for the animal without providing much nutritional value. It is also very bland so yes, good for upset tummys as you advised.

[Ruffles]

I understand the rice right now... As in whilst he is sick but he said that I should feed rice if I'm feeding raw food. Although I made it clear he is on processed food aswell.

The rice however isnt the point.

I thought you shouldnt give 'weight bearing' bones to puppies... Wont it wear his teeth down?

[morgan]

Dont' worry about what the vets say - if they want to follow the mantra of processed foods/grains, annual vaccinations and early desexing, that is their choice, after all, that is how they get their income!

And it is your choice to do your own research and work out what is healthiest for your dog. Vets are great for medical emergencies - just don't ask for advice on how to keep dogs so healthy that they don't need vet care..

My pups all start on chicken necks at 5 weeks, and hopefully finish when they die of old age in their teens. Haven't used marrow bones in over 20 years - was sick of out of hours visits to vets to extract bits of bone from their palates - another easy, nice little earner for them

[shoemonster]

We have debates with nearly every vet we go to about Eddie's diet even though they have always just told us how healthy he is and how great his coat is

It gets so that you feel like fibbing so they won't tell you that you're wrong

Edited March 21, 2006 by shoemonster

[*Karma*]

Oh I know how you feel. On one of my visits to the vets, he commented on how my dog looked so healthy with beautiful white teeth (they never used to be), so I explained that she was on the BARF diet.

He looked at me and said "What the hell is that?"

I had to explain it to him and I just knew he thought I was crazy.

Edited March 21, 2006 by *Karma*

[Ruffles]

Thats what I felt like!

I actually gave my friends some of Loki's raw food for their pup and said "be warned, if you tell the vet she's eating this they'll probably tell you its wrong" so he just didnt tell them hehe.

He was a helpful Vet (not my usual one) but was not impressed by chicken necks at all!

Oh well... I just had to rant!

[caballito de mar]

When i took my new pup to the vet for his first checkup i was told to get him on to dry food(science diet). I took him back 2 weeks later for his injection to the same clinic...different vet and was told, rice, raw meat, pasta and vegies. Both times i said, 'thank you very much'

I go by what the breeder fed/feeds, i email the breeder when i have any questions, that might affect the dog long term.

The first vet said to desex at 4 months, the second said at 2 years(muscle growth first) The breeder is my guide, she trusted me with her baby, therefor, she has last say.

[sheltiesrule]

My puppy is on the BARF diet and I just find it easier to fib or hope they won't ask what I feed him when I'm at the vet.......but I'm annoyed that I have to do that and justify myself to all the other people who think I should have my pup on processed food.

[poodlefan]

Ruffles what are you chances of finding another, more supportive vet in your area.

Your vet is supposed to be major part of your dog's health team - its far easier to have a vet who, if not actually in favour of BARF, isn't against it.

I see absolutely no point in having to lie to your vet about how you care for your dog. In the event of illness, you vet needs to know the truth about what your dog eats.

[Crysti_Lei]

i have been told by my leturers (vet nurses) that vets get one leture on canine nutrition and it is given by a dog food rep!!

rice is a waste of time, the fiber they need is ion the vegie/friut mush.

don't ever doubt the BARF way!

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

Tramissa

I guess it depends on individuals as to their interpretation of nutrition, the piece I wrote on dogs needing fibre was taken from notes on one of the courses which I have done in Animal care and the course was written by a veterinarian.

[Ruffles]

Ruffles what are you chances of finding another, more supportive vet in your area.

Your vet is supposed to be major part of your dog's health team - its far easier to have a vet who, if not actually in favour of BARF, isn't against it.

He's not the normal vet we see at the Practice, although its his surgery. We normally see another, more openminded Vet.

This vet we saw actually pi$$ed me off something chronic last time we saw him with Rinse as he wouldnt touch her because he's scared of a big sook.

I dont appreciate Vets being scared of dogs that give them no reason to be nervous... thats another story but Poodlefan, our normal Vet is better.

[WreckitWhippet]

Just stick with what you are doing and what your breeder advises you.

I start mine on chicken necks from about 4-5 weeks ( chopped into pieces ) and move them onto full necks at about 8 weeks. I also feed mine carcass, wings , chicken mince, some cheese and other bits and pieces as well as their dry food.

You do what you feel is best, you may need to make some adjustments to his diet as he gets older or his requirements change, but I'm sure that you would welcome advice on this , if and when the time ever came.

Don't worry about that vet.

[Ruffles]

Will certainley ask for advice should I need it... I was reading for ages just to work out the little meal of Raw that we feed him now!

He just ticked me off thats all, made me feel like I was doing the wrong thing.

My breeder has given me the OK and Loki is doing well (except for this unknown 24 hr bug he had) so thats what matters!

Thanks for sharing my frustrations!!

[Guest ~*Pixie*~]

I can completely relate... when I took my dogs in to be vaccinated I did actually lie and say they ate dry food when at the time they were eating a BARF diet.

If I took them to the Vet due to a health problem I'd be honest about what I feed them... but I use different Vets for vaccinations and health issues (the vacc-only Vets are idiots, but are closer than the better ones I use if I have problems) so lying just gave me a break when I was already getting lectures about hybrid vigour

[J...]

i have been told by my leturers (vet nurses) that vets get one leture on canine nutrition and it is given by a dog food rep!!

rice is a waste of time, the fiber they need is ion the vegie/friut mush.

don't ever doubt the BARF way!

Quite likely to be true CL - I've been told by a friend of mine (trained vet) that they spent very little time on nutrition. When you think about it they have an awful lot to learn about all animals, not just dogs, in a relatively short amount of time. Not just that, but then they also have to keep up with all the latest research and developments in so many different areas.

Absolutely no criticism of vets here as there is some fantastic ones out there, but some seem to think that because they have a degree sitting on the wall that they know it all! I have the utmost respect for any vet (or professional) who is willing to learn and will admit that they don't know everything!

[Erny]

Like Feralpup, this is not to knock Vets (although those who have read my posts on the subject will know that I've struck more than my fair share of not so good ones ).

I have a dog "Kal" who is not well. We haven't been able to find out what's wrong. It is chronic, complicated and convoluted. Those who have read of Kal in the thread in "health" will know what I mean.

She is under care of a Vet who works from Werribee (Melb Uni). As part of 'monitoring', he asked me, at one stage, to check Kal's weight once a week for 4 weeks (she is too thin and I'm having trouble getting weight on her, amongst other things). Because I don't live near Werribee, I popped into one of the local Vets for this purpose.

Each time I went in I would let them know Kal was under care at Werribee Vets and I had to monitor her weight ... was it ok to use the scale. One of the staff - I'm not sure if a Vet Nurse or junior Vet - came over and asked if she could help. Thinking she may not have heard my announcement and permission to use the scales, I repeated myself, including the part where she was under veterinary care at Werribee.

Before I could even quite finish the sentence, she jumped in with "have you tried the Hills Science Diet formulas" and was about to go into full spiel about them.

Now, sheesh .... I know she meant well. But she didn't even ask what could be the matter or anything else. How would she even know that food of that nature would not exacerbate my dog's condition? Just made me feel like the important thing was to sell .... then maybe investigate the dog (not that I was there for them to do that anyway).

[Muttaburra]

A breeder I know of feeds her whippets (many of them) nothing but chicken necks. They do exceptionaly well on it.

The argument for feeding cereal and grains is that when a dog is in the wild, the theory goes that they sometimes eat the gut of the herbivores and get grains that way, certainly might explain the dogs that wait for their hot green horse bum patties.

I have a lot to learn about diets, but hedge my bets by giving a small amount of quality dry kibbles for breakfast, then raw mince or turkey necks or similar in the evening. Sometimes I mix rice in, sometimes processed bran. One of my dogs appears to have an allergy to the artificial smoked bacon flavouring that is in half the tinned food, baked bones, pigs ears, and schmakos these days, so I am very careful in that regard.