zayda_asher Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Should add that of course if you get a definite reaction you take the off the food, only leave them on the food up to 7 days if there is no appreciable reaction. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted May 25, 2006 Author Share Posted May 25, 2006 Well, the blood test results are back from the US, much more quickly than I'd expected. And it seems Rex is definitely allergic to the usual suspects - dust mites, weed pollens etc. I don't have the full list at the moment, the Derm Nurse just gave me a call to give me a rundown of the results and to ask whether I wanted to go ahead with the vaccine. She said it costs $260 and will last about 4.5 months, so I assume each shot of the vaccine costs that amount. EEEEEK! Don't know if the insurance will pay out but can only find out when I put in a claim I guess. If it doesn't, well, I'll just have to wear the cost but it will be worth it in the end if it helps make Rex better. Dan, have you been through the vaccine thing? If so, how long does it take to start to show a result and also how long do the injections have to been given for? I suppose it probably varies from dog to dog. They said it's also possible Rex has food allergies but we will look at that as a separate thing with bringing him off the elimination diet. So at least those results have shown something that we can start to work on. We did have an appointment on 9 June but have managed to bring it forward to 2 June so we can get started on the vaccine asap. Wish us luck! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorRex Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 (edited) Glad you have some answers to work on with the Derm. Vet. Good luck and please keep us posted Edited May 25, 2006 by InspectorRex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 (edited) Hi! I'm having internet probs at the moment, so I wont be on regularly... But I will make sure I check in with you when I am The Allergen Specific Immunotherapy is expensive, but it does make a difference... That is not the cost for each injection, its the cost for about 4-6 months worth, you get vials and inject at regular intervals. To start with that is normally a low dose at 3 day intervals and then you start spreading out the distance between injections. You start on a lower dose and move up to a full strength dose as their body starts to adjust to it. The idea is to force the body to start getting used to and making a more appropriate response to the allergen. Both my dogs have been / are on ASI, Asher's is being done orally due to a problem with injections with him (he is the first dog here to be properly trialled orally). It normally takes about a year to see a strong / lasting change in the dog, but you may notice improvements before then. And, yep, it will depend on the dog! We took Zayda off her's this year. It definitely improved her condition, however, we did end up taking her off it a bit early as she has had a really hard year and had a small reaction to the ASI, so we decided to stop instead of risking it becoming a stronger reaction. This year has been a bad year for those with allergies and she seems to be maninfesting a new pattern to her allergies which could be the unseasonal weather or could be her allergies changing symptom pattern through age... or even a combo of both! So we think that the ASI on top of this was just an overload for her system... Asher's seems to be going well, although he is also having a lot of problems with the bad season... He'll be coming up for a year on his soon. I've found that using things like homeopathics and herbal remdies to help treat symptoms / boost their immune system etc. help a lot as well... When you've got the full list let us know what he is allergic to and I'll let you know of anything that I've found really useful if he has any of the same allergies as my two. Good luck!! Dan Edited May 26, 2006 by zayda_asher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted May 29, 2006 Author Share Posted May 29, 2006 Thanks for explaining that Dan, now I have a better understanding of the whole procedure . So off we go to Murdoch on Friday to start it all off and for them to give me all the relevant info - and then I need to keep my fingers (and arms and legs) crossed that it works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Thanks for explaining that Dan, now I have a better understanding of the whole procedure . Glad to So off we go to Murdoch on Friday to start it all off and for them to give me all the relevant info - and then I need to keep my fingers (and arms and legs) crossed that it works! Good luck, you should get a lot of good info from them as well... Also if you are not comfortable getting the injections done sometimes your own vets will do them for you... Let us know how it goes! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted June 2, 2006 Author Share Posted June 2, 2006 Went back to Murdoch today - the Heska blood tests came back positive for moulds, grass and weed pollens and dust mites. I forgot to get a copy of the breakdown of the results while I was there, so they are going to post one out to me. We started the vaccine today and I gave Rex the first injection Actually, he didn't seem to feel it at all, although I dithered around for a bit before I was able to stick that needle in. Oh well, I guess I'll get used to it, having to give him jabs every 3 days until about the middle of July! I'll be an old hand at it by then and the 10, 14 and 21 day injections won't seem so bad :D This lot of vaccine will last until mid-November although probably won't start to see much of a result (if any) during this round. Mandy has also said to put him back on his normal diet to "challenge" his system to determine whether there may be some food allergies as well. Having him on the elimination diet didn't really seem to make much of a difference - he has been on it for 8 weeks and Mandy said they would have expected to see an improvement by the 6 week mark. I did actually give Rex a small amount of chicken during the week, just to see what would happen - a couple of small chicken necks one day and a small chicken wing another day (all raw of course). He didn't suddenly start scratching himself to pieces but he did seem to be more itchy, he had an upset stomach and has been farting something dreadful ever since!!!!!! When I think back, he was always "farty" when he was getting chicken wings and necks and quite often his poos would be "yucky" (that's a polite way of putting it!) afterwards. This time it may just be because he hasn't had raw chicken for a while, but I only gave him a small amount and I am starting to suspect he may have an allergy or intolerance to chicken - then again it could all be coincidental and a bit of a red herring and it really is just the pollen and mould allergies causing the problem. If we can eliminate the possibility of food allergies by doing this "challenge", Mandy will then look at what medications can be used (probably anti-histamines rather than steroids as Rex is so young) to help him along the way until the vaccine starts to take effect. I'll keep you posted - and thanks for the support everyone! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglePack Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Spikey, you may want to get your dog onto the Eagle Pack natural formula or the holistic anchovy. They are both formula's that will aid in the releif of skin problems and allergies. These are great for dogs who are getting constant quarterzone injections and sometimes can illiminate them completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Eaglepack do you have test results which show conclusively that Eaglepack Holistic Natural/Anchovy can assist in the ELIMINATION of CORTISONE. I am not a sales rep for any company but there are other products out there than can assist in skin disorders, one of which is Nutro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starsky Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Hi, my bullie also suffers from allergies, etc, I know exactly what you are going through !! :D Initially he had a really major allergice reaction to what I've been able tyo find out was round up which they had sprayed around the dog show rings just befor the Royal Hobart Show where he had these lumps which burst and left big holes and major hair loss, thankfully this type of major reaction has not happend again but regulary suffers from the seasonal allergies relating to grasses, pollens, etc. I've personally found that anti-histamines work well. Although there can be side effects they are definitely better than continual cortisone or antibiotics. For my boy Polarmine works really well, maximum dosage is 6mg. Which anti-histamine works for you dog is a matter of trying one to see, I have a list of maximun dosages of anti-histamines including Phenergen, Claratyne etc, if you are interested, which I was given by a veterniary skin specialist by the name of Lynda Vogelnest (who I can highly recommend). She has helped me no end. I didn't go down the vaccine path preferring to try a preventative approach instead. To sooth the itch I've found that Curash baby lotion or ointment works the best it also reduces the redness too !! Also, something newer that I've found is Resi-Chlor which you can get through your vet. With food it definitely seems that the more 'natural' type of food the better. I actually give him yoghurt daily which really helps keep his digestive system, etc in balance particularly when he gets yeast infections between his toes. For the wind give him garlic tablets, they really do work !!!! Good luck !! Never give up hope that something can be done !! With Starsky it took a long while to get him right but it was worth it. He has just turned 8 and is happy and healthy !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Good luck with the injections... hope you guys are doing ok with them!! With the food you should see all those things come back as signs of allergies... When they get a reaction their digestive system stops working properly and you get the runny poos / farts etc as they are trying to process the food. Nasty! Antihistamines are good... If you find out all that he is allergic to and do stuff to minimize contact with those things and control the environment you shouldn't need to use steriods at all... My dogs never have steroids. With the mould allergies, keep the environment as warm and dry as possible will really help. I've found that keeping them rugged up when they go out makes a huge difference too: the damp makes a big difference, so I am looking at getting a dehumidifier if the humid weather keeps up in summer here too. Patanol eye drops really help if he is getting gunky eyes from the mould allergies. The resichlor is really good stuff if they have scratched themselves bloody. Spikey, you may want to get your dog onto the Eagle Pack natural formula or the holistic anchovy. They are both formula's that will aid in the releif of skin problems and allergies. These are great for dogs who are getting constant quarterzone injections and sometimes can illiminate them completely. EP they need to complete elimination diet and sort out if and what the dog has food allergies to before they consider new food. There could be several things in those products that he is allergic to and its irresponsible to suggest a food product to someone doing elimination trail Eaglepack do you have test results which show conclusively that Eaglepack Holistic Natural/Anchovy can assist in the ELIMINATION of CORTISONE. No because you can't prove such a thing! If the dog is allergic to any of the ingredients they will react, if they are not allergic to any of the ingredients then they will not react. A food allergy is an immune mediated response to a protein, it does not matter what form it is in, if the dog is allergic to that protein it CANNOT have it!!! There is no such thing as a hypoallergenic protein source. Spikey: Good luck and keep us posted... when you have the full list of allergies post it up and let us know. Oh, also give me a run down of his symptoms again and I'll let you know of anything else I have found that works. Cheers, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Dan Hence my post as I cant honestly see how Eagle Pack can assist in the elimination of cortisone, I have had a dog many years go on a total protein elimination diet, and even then it may not be the protein which is causing the problem. Spikey hope you get it sorted out, it takes a long time but worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloss344 Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Spikey, you may want to get your dog onto the Eagle Pack natural formula or the holistic anchovy. They are both formula's that will aid in the releif of skin problems and allergies. These are great for dogs who are getting constant quarterzone injections and sometimes can illiminate them completely. EaglePack, I'm sure that your food is high quality, but it contains so many ingredients, any of which a dog could be allergic to. Natural or holistic doesn't make it any less allergenic. I actually tried the EaglePack Lamb and Rice formula a couple of years ago, when it was just lamb and rice. Now the formulas have multiple grains, eg: rice, oatmeal and corn/barley, not good for a dog that may have or has allergies. Duck and oatmeal sounded tempting to try on my allergy dog until I looked at the ingredients, yes it's duck and oatmeal but it also has rice, flaxseed and brewers yeast, as well as egg product. And then again it's stated that oatmeal is hypoallergenic, well, sorry but any food can be allergenic. Oatmeal may be less allergenic due to the fact that it is a novel ingredient to most dog's diets. . I don't think recommending a product with so many ingredients to allergy dogs is wise. JMHO I will concede that when the dog is NOT suffering a food allergy then a high quality diet may in fact help with the healing process in conjunction with veterinary intervention. ok, I'll get off my soapbox now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 Well, Rex has DEFINITELY got some sort of food allergy / intolerance thing happening. I started switching him back over to his "normal" diet of Hills Science Diet Large Breed Puppy kibble but not for long! - he seemed to be a bit more itchy (although that could well also be caused by the initial doses of the vaccine) but his digestive system just didn't cope well at all - sloppy poos again and oh, the farts!!!! This was just from mixing a small amount of the Large Breed biscuits in with the Hills z/d in order to slowly change him back to the other bikkies. I had a small bag of the Proplan Turkey & Barley that a friend with an allergy dog had given me so I thought I would give those a go until I could speak to the dermatologists again this week - what a difference. His tummy is back to normal, no more yucky poos and practically no farting!!! I know they aren't "proper" puppy biscuits but to be honest, when I sat down and compared the nutritional analysis with the puppy mixtures, there wasn't a lot of difference. The levels of most ingredients are almost identical, even the calcium. Rex is stll getting all his EPO, flaxseed, Vitamin E etc. So it appears there is definitely some reaction to one or more ingredients in the Hills Science LB Puppy - whether it's chicken, wheat or a combination of several. If Rex settles down on these biscuits (and they haven't made him any itchier either), then I will try reintroducing chicken etc one ingredient at a time to pinpoint what is causing the problem. It also means he will be getting much better nutrition in the meantime than he was on the Hills z/d ultra! There has certainly been a bit of a debate about food! Dan and others are quite right in that the elimination diet has to run its course before trying anything too different. As Rex reacted so strongly to the Hills biscuits he was having formerly and I had the Proplan Turkey & Barley on hand (which I had used successfully with a GSD who had severe allergies), I decided to try it and it looks like we might be lucky to have found a prepared food he doesn't react to (yet, anyway!). Eagle Pack is not readily available here in WA, from the enquiries I have made (nowhere within an hour's drive where I can buy it and could only get a delivery of the biggest bag available!), and I don't think we can get Nutro at all. Bloss344 - you are so right, oatmeal is not hypoallergenic, Rex has a very adverse reaction to the oatmeal shampoos and probably to it as a food ingredient as well. I'm not too keen on giving these injections (and Rex isn't too keen on having them either, for some strange reason :p ), I just try to be as careful and quiet and calm as I can and try to cause him as little discomfort as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Sorry I have only just realised you had posted an update. I just wanted to say good on you! A big pat on the back for going ahead with the allergy vaccines! I know what you mean about the tummy problems- my allergic Staffy is the same I'm lucky though she does fantastically on the z/d. I'd go with the proplan Turkey if it works! Consequently Advance also make a Turkey based food... I wonder if your boy is allergic to corn? There's alot of corn in the Science Diet range. Keep is posted eh? :p Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Well, Rex has DEFINITELY got some sort of food allergy / intolerance thing happening. I started switching him back over to his "normal" diet of Hills Science Diet Large Breed Puppy kibble but not for long! - he seemed to be a bit more itchy (although that could well also be caused by the initial doses of the vaccine) but his digestive system just didn't cope well at all - sloppy poos again and oh, the farts!!!! :p This was just from mixing a small amount of the Large Breed biscuits in with the Hills z/d in order to slowly change him back to the other bikkies. I had a small bag of the Proplan Turkey & Barley that a friend with an allergy dog had given me so I thought I would give those a go until I could speak to the dermatologists again this week - what a difference. His tummy is back to normal, no more yucky poos and practically no farting!!! I know they aren't "proper" puppy biscuits but to be honest, when I sat down and compared the nutritional analysis with the puppy mixtures, there wasn't a lot of difference. The levels of most ingredients are almost identical, even the calcium. Rex is stll getting all his EPO, flaxseed, Vitamin E etc. Well that is a pretty definite answer going there!! Yuck!! The food allergies just kill their system :cool: Nope there isn't a lot of difference and a lot of the breeders I know don't feed puppy kibble anyway... He should be fine! So it appears there is definitely some reaction to one or more ingredients in the Hills Science LB Puppy - whether it's chicken, wheat or a combination of several. If Rex settles down on these biscuits (and they haven't made him any itchier either), then I will try reintroducing chicken etc one ingredient at a time to pinpoint what is causing the problem. It also means he will be getting much better nutrition in the meantime than he was on the Hills z/d ultra! Good luck... you will probably find it is a combo... but you may get lucky! I will cross fingers for you that its only one thing! Remember to test him for any other things he has had as treats (e.g.: beef if he's had beef liver treats etc.) The Z/D sucks.... We thought Zayda was never going to fill and develop until we got her off that! There has certainly been a bit of a debate about food! Dan and others are quite right in that the elimination diet has to run its course before trying anything too different. I get a *little* annoyed when advice is offered without understanding of an issue Bloss344 - you are so right, oatmeal is not hypoallergenic, Rex has a very adverse reaction to the oatmeal shampoos and probably to it as a food ingredient as well. Yep, I know a few dogs that have very chronic reactions to oatmeal... "Hypoallergenic" is a marketing ploy and / or a sign that they really don't understand what they are talking about. I'm not too keen on giving these injections (and Rex isn't too keen on having them either, for some strange reason ), I just try to be as careful and quiet and calm as I can and try to cause him as little discomfort as possible. Its hard Maybe if you guys find it too hard then you can get your vet nurse to do it for you? Good luck... Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I wonder if your boy is allergic to corn? There's alot of corn in the Science Diet range. wouldn't surprise me at all!! Corn is evil stuff... If the "Allergy Fairy" showed up on my door step tomorrow and said I could get rid of one of Zayda's allergies and one only then it would be the corn. It just rips through her system, totally destroys her digestive system and her immune system just falls apart... Hate the stuff Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Hiya! Just thought I'd check back in and see if there is an update on the little fella Hope things are going well for you all! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazz Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 (edited) Are the vaccines the only way to go properly ? I recently had a test done on one of my girls, and the first course of action the vet has suggested is an elimination diet (meat/bone based - of the meats she's not allergic too of course ) and trying to keep away/contact from other allergens. She's also on an antihistimine (25mg twice daily), 3000mg eveing primrose oil (the same with fish oil) and has Panolog cream twice/once daily for her bumps/sores. edit: Sorry to hi-jack your thread Spikey Edited August 5, 2006 by Hazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 Are the vaccines the only way to go properly ?I recently had a test done on one of my girls, and the first course of action the vet has suggested is an elimination diet (meat/bone based - of the meats she's not allergic too of course ) and trying to keep away/contact from other allergens. She's also on an antihistimine (25mg twice daily), 3000mg eveing primrose oil (the same with fish oil) and has Panolog cream twice/once daily for her bumps/sores. edit: Sorry to hi-jack your thread Spikey Spike has been tested and they know what he is allergic to. The "vaccine" (which it isn't, its immunotherapy) is for the atopic allergies NOT food allergies, which is what an elimination diet is for. Different treatments for different sorts of allergies Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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