Tracking

[Kavik]

Well I thought I'd go and see what tracking is all about so I went to the Tracking and Rescue Dog Club's first tracking training day for the year. There was one other beginner there, the others had been doing tracking for a while.

It was different to what I had expected. Of course, I have done some reading up on tracking, on the net and in the Schutzhund book I have, so I know a little bit. From what I have read, they moved us along way too fast.

After getting us organised in groups, they started and each handler laid a track for their dog, with an article (we were told to bring worn socks) at the start and end. We could show a motivator to the dog as we started out (toy or food) and the motivator was placed at the end of the track with the article. We then went back along the track to the dog, put harness on dog, told the dog to track and off we went!

I couldn't figure out how the dog was supposed to know what to do, we had done no foundation scent training or anything. And at the end of the track we had to get the dog to indicate the article with a sit, frop or stand.

It seems to me they were teaching us everything at once! How to lay a track, how to teach the dog to track, how to teach the dog to indicate an article, all at once! I don't see how the dog is supposed to understand all that.

Everything I have read about footstep tracking uses a scent pad and food in each footstep, for a long time before anything else is done. And article indication is normally taught separately.

Anyone else have experience with tracking?

[noisymina]

Only with a poodle I had once. When she missed me, she used to track me down.

When we were out at a farm, she would be free to roam, but would check with me often. But one day, I got on a horse and rode off, then looked back to see her with nose to he ground, folowing exactly the path I had taken, then stopped at the exact spot where I had got on the horse, looked around all confused, then went back to where she had started and did the whole thing over again.

So, I really think they already know how to track if they are born to it!

Guess the hard part would be to get them to track a particular scent that YOU want them to follow?

[Clicking Mad]

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Edited January 7, 2008 by Clicking Mad

[Kavik]

Arrgh I lost my post - puter died!

Hi Sam, lots of good questions!

What the club does is competition/sport tracking, also known as footstep tracking, where you want the dog to follow exactly where the tracklayer has been. Unlike SAR where the aim is to get to the person fast.

All the dogs were on lead so they didn't run off. The dog was held by the instructor while we laid the track with the dog watching. The tracks were about 50 paces.

Most stuff I have read concentrates on precision from the beginning, making sure the dog stays exactly on the track nose down and accurate. It seemed here we were just trying to get the dogs to get the general idea - maybe they do precision later? The dogs were given a command and taken to the start of the track, if they went the wrong way or stopped they were shown the track again.

The hard part is of course we can't smell what they do, so we don't know if they are really scenting the track or not.

Diesel did OK considering he had no idea what we wanted him to do. He got to the end of both tracks, although he stopped in the middle each time and had to be shown the track again.

Cross tracks and distractions come later.

[Clicking Mad]

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Edited January 7, 2008 by Clicking Mad

[Alison]

I am going to be starting tracking in May and I can't wait. From what I understand tracking cannot be taught to a dog. It's all up to the dog. I have been told that we will be doing the same sort of thing. I will be doing a weekend workshop where we make the harnesses up ourselves. I understand we will be taking the dogs out and laying the track while a handler takes out dog. I don't know much more so can't comment any further, sorry.

[Kavik]

I think his problem was confusion and lack of motivation. I used a toy at the end of the track, and we are still building his desire for the toy, not where I want it yet. I could have used food, but they wanted food in an enclosed container at the end, I thought that would mean a delay with reward.

I am deciding whether to continue the way they train or go to food in footstep tracking. I can see how that works, how the dog learns the track and how it is motivated. How it learns the track scent picture etc.

I don't quite get how their training is supposed to work. They used to have a person at the end of each track but don't now. The rules have only just changed I think this year?

I have done a bit of scent work with Zoe - did scent detection with her. So I understand a little about scent and the difficulties of working with it.

[Kavik]

Here is an article that teaches footstep tracking with food.

http://www.schutzhundvillage.com/nose1.html

[Chell]

Hi Kavik,

I have been doing tracking with a schutzhund club now for about 5 months and we put an equal emphasis on this side of the sport as the other 2 areas. And Believe it is very important to start the dog and handler off slowly and build confidence for this work. As clicking mad wrote it is better to teach the dog "this is what you do" before allowing mistakes to become habit. We started with scent pads and worked up. I feel that a track of 50 paces is way way too long for a novice dog.

I tend to lay 3 tracks each session, the first is very short, about 3 meters, this track is for the dog to settle down and realise this is what we are here for, as soon as he reaches the end he gets small food reward from the track. given the break command and lead off the track, we go straight to the begining of the second track which is longer again, this track reinforces his training and confidence and it can be longer because he had the first one to settle down on, he really knows what he is doing on the second one and what the aim is. The third track is the teaching track, this is when you extend the dog a bit by in the begining making it much longer still and taking note of what the dog can handle by way of duration etc and after a little while you start to use this track for curves and turns, you teach the dog that the track doesnt always go straight.

It needs to be a process of building blocks for both the dog and handler. i think it is really unfair and counter productive to just throw you into it the way they have.

Since you are fimilar and comfortable with the sch. style of tracking have you considered joining a sch club just to compete in that phase of the sport. Have you spoken the the club you attended about your concerns and what did they say about their methods and the reasons they train this way. Good luck with it and let us know how you are getting on. It really is a fun thing to do with your dog, well i know my big boy likes it anyway.

[Kavik]

Can you join just to do the tracking part? I don't think Diesel has what it takes for the character work.

I did tell the club that I had done some reading about a different way of tracking, but I didn't say too much as I didn't know how it would be received by them. They said it would be fine to do it a different way than the way they do - apparently one of the other people also did it this way. I didn't ask why they taught tracking the way they did. Being my first time, I wasn't sure exactly what to expect.

I am thinking what I may try is going again and explaining what I would like to do I, maybe the other person who teaches footstep tracking can then help me.

[2tollers]

Hi Kavik

I also went to my first tracking session with one of my dogs on Sunday. I don't know much about it and am just doing it for a bit of fun but this is how we went about it.

I had to leave the dog in the car while I laid the track. I used socks and this was folded over a small piece of food. Then they said to take only 3 steps and lay a piece of food and another 3 and sock with food. I'm not sure how far we went but I used 4 socks and sometimes 2 bits of food between. Probably no more that 15 meters.

At the end I had to put down her special treat. The only thing I could find at home was a can of salmon which I opened and emptied onto the ground. God she hated that. I then had to walk over the same track back to the start.

I got her out of the car and took her to a few meters before the start and put her harness on. They said to use any command you wanted to the most common I think is "track". Lilli is a real pig so was more than happy to put her nose to the ground sniff out the treats.

Beginners only go once a fortnight and I was told to lay the same simple track just once during the week at home (not in any of her areas) for her to have a practice.

I have no idea what method this is.

Good luck.

[Gamby]

I love Tracking.

It is a wonderful feeling being out with your dog early in the morning when the sun has just risen.

Laying a track, remembering to put down the rewards, taking note of the land and the things around it, lining up your straight lines, knowing where the track is and where it is going to go etc.

Then take the dog for a walk or go home for an hour or so, come back, get the dog out of the car, with the harness and lead and see the dog eager to go get it.

Wait dog, you need your harness on first, stand still, OK. Go Track.

The dog has its head down and bum up and off we go.

Oh the joy of watching Miss Annabell or any other dog track, I'm in awe of the way the different dogs track. Some go straight out, some go from side to side, some fiddle around, go behind the handler, then all of sudden take off.

The look on handlers faces who try tracking with their dog for the first time when the dog actually puts it head down, bum up and goes.

To have a dog give you kisses all over after it has found you lying on the wet ground for up to a couple of hours reading a book, listening to the radio or just watching the clouds in the sky, listening to the sounds of the farm, bush or wherever you might be.

Sometimes you need to set up various tracks just in case the dog doesn't understand that particular set out. I know of one dog who wouldn't track it's owner. I tried a couple of different things only to find the dog was too smart, it wanted to take the direct route to its handler. Then I send the husband out. Boy what a joy to see that dog go. It hasn't looked back. This year it should get it's tracking title.

My Miss Annabell TCh just did tracking. We did train over a couple of years, but it wasn't for entering tracking trials is was just another dog sport for her to do.

With tracking trials once the dog has passed its Test 6 then that's it. No more trials. I have a young Aussie Shepherd who I'm going to take tracking this year.

I'm looking forward to putting the tracking gear, dogs, sleeping bags etc in the car and traveling around the country side to meet up with all the other tracking people for a great weekend.

Maybe by writing this piece of nonesense will let you know that Tracking is addictive. The dogs will thank you for getting them involved in the sport, and you and your dog will enjoy the company of a man and his dog doing what comes naturally.

Wendy

[dogdayz]

I second what Gamby says..it is addictive...and it has been great the last few weeks to have the dogs back out tracking...cant wait for the trial season to restart...its worth all the cold dark early mornings....and the dogs love it too.

Kavik in reply to your original question, that is pretty similar to how we started, though initially i was at the end o the track and the dog had to find. But talking to people there are all sorts of methods out there, and each has their own ideas on do's and do nots, as with any dogsport i guess. One thing i would say is article indications is important and imo best learned from day 1, beause if you get a dog like one of mine who adores tracking and is so enthusiastic it takes a long time to teach them to stop at articles on a track, they just want to reach the end. It has taken many months to get him indicating.

Alison i did the same training weekend last year as you are planning to do this year i think - you will love it.

[Gamby]

The tracking workshop run by the Victorian Tracking Club of Victoria is the best place to go if you want to learn tracking.

The knowledge amongst those who give their time over the weekend is pure gold.

Don't forget to take some $2.00's as you will be hassled by the bestest raffle ticket seller I have ever known

The people are so into tracking training that you will be more than happy with what you learn over that weekend.

The new area at the Moira Scout Camp is up market as it has hot water for the showers, a lovely big open fire, a river as most importantly a huge bush area.

I can't wait for the Workshop weekend each year. Not only to meet up with the fellow trackers but to watch the new dogs enter into their world and track like they have been doing it for year.

It's the handlers that need the instruction but isn't that always the way.

Wendy

[Kavik]

Thanks for the responses!

I intend to continue with tracking, looks like a lot of fun.

dogdayz, the stuff I have read say you can teach article indication as a separate exercise to tracking - you can teach it like an obedience exercise. The article I posted has a second part which talks about article indication - first as an obedience exercise, then a scent exercise, but more similar to scent detection (dog learns to down when it smells article) rather than anything to do with tracking. Then introduce articles on the track when the dog knows what to do with them. That makes sense, rather than teaching the dog that it is supposed to follow this scent exactly, head down, what is it supposed to find, keep motivation up, and what an article is and what to do about it all at the same time. I was confused by how the dog was supposed to figure out what to do, much less how the dog felt!

[dogdayz]

Kavik - yep we do teach article indication with short exercises, multiple socks on a short distance track again you get differences here, some people believe never place food under the article others do. The problem comes the dog knows the difference despite harnessing for both types of exercise, they love the distance tracks so getting translation of article indication from short obedience exercise to full track is the difficulty. Should say though my boy struggles because he is so enthusiastic - he doesnt even care when he finds the tracklayer and his motivator he just wants to continue - his biggest reward is being allowed to follow a scent trail. My girl much less enthusiastic learned article indication much better.

Really it come down to how quickly and what you want to do - if you want to do tracking titles you need to pass both elements i.e. follow the track and indicate articles, without both you fail, which would be frustrating if you have a dog tracking brilliantly but you cant trial him because you need several more months to train article indication. I dont know the schutzhund requirements but they may well be different.

Each dog is individual and training has to be tailored to the dog, dont get tied down to one system. Best thing is talk to lots of people, and if you can handle other experienced dogs you will see the difference in dog personalities/behaviours as well as breed traits. When you hit a problem refer back to the alternative methods other have told you about. Keep all the ideas in a notebook along with notes on each track you do each week and how the dog went e.g. what direction turns, surface type, bush or paddock, weather and wind direction

and be prepared to have a dog that finds socks around the house and indicates them in expectation of a treat - by the end of last season my girl would steal a sock spin and sit waiting for reward - just a shame she isnt so keen to track as she is to indicate articles

Edited March 21, 2006 by dogdayz

[sidoney]

I did some tracking years ago. We had a Vizsla tracking day at the property I was living on and some very experienced tracking competitors taught we novices how to start off. After that I would lay a track every morning for some time ... but then got busy and moved and stuff and had to give it away.

We didn't do exactly anything that has been mentioned. Dog tracked owner at first. Walked up and down a short straight track a few times to make it obvious. Can't remember how long it was but not very long. "Tracking pot" at the end - container with yummy food in it. Think we had a few treats on the track as it went. As the dog picked it up and understood what was wanted the difficulty gradually increased.

On advice, I made myself some pegs with ribbon on them that I used to mark where I had laid the track - was easy to clip to bits of grass, etc. All yummy scraps always went into the tracking pot.

I tracklaid at trials a couple of times and also went out with the judge and helped mark the tracks a couple of days before.

I think there is a tracking comp that is for dogs that have all their titles, isn't there? I remember they introduced one. My tracking friends were very pleased about it. Although I've not had much to do with tracking for some years now.

Edited March 21, 2006 by sidoney

[dogdayz]

There is a Champion of Champions comp held in victoria for the dogs with all their titles done - not sure about other states

[sidoney]

I am in NSW and sounds like the same kind of thing.

[Lablover]

Can I interrupt for a second please?

If you are interested in tracking, which is basic, compared to Search and Rescue, may I suggest K9 force's/SARDOG seminar.