Donnalee Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Hi, I attended an introduction session at the ADT -Ascot Vale Last night and signed up, we attend our first novice class next week - I was just wondering if anyone else on here trains their dog at the Ascotvale venue or is a trainer there? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagalot Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 oh good to hear u found a good training venue.....wishing you lots of fun with your training cheers sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Hi .... I'm a trainer at ADT - I train at Berwick on Saturday mornings, Scoresby Sunday mornings and either Springvale or Boronia on Sunday afternoons .... but not Ascotvale. Check in with "Haven". I know she does Doncaster on Thursday nights, Boronia Sunday afternoons and, I think Heidelberg Sunday mornings, but I'm not sure about Ascotvale on Tuesday nights. Either way - welcome aboard, Donnalee! I know you will have fun and you'll get to meet lots of people and get to know the reg trainers there. Enjoy! PS Don't forget to take your dog's favourite motivator with you to training at every session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I generally don't train at Ascot Vale because it is about an hour away from where I live, but like Erny said, I can regularly be found at Boronia, Heidleburg and Doncaster. I am sure that you will be very happy training there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnalee Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 Thank you for your replies, Erny & Haven - I might run into you down the track at one of the other venues but they are all a bit far from me so will probably be sticking to Ascotvale. Looking forward to getting started Donna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhead Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I must say that i wasn't at all impressed with Australian Dog Training. I didn't like the way they forced dogs into the drop and all the leash corrections were too much to bear. My dog is a big softie and when i was told to leash pop her for getting up from the sit, she cringed and did not want to come near me for hours after that. The trainer then told me that she was being dominant. I'd look around for a more positive based club donnalee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scope Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Redhead - just because your dog is 'a big softie', doesnt mean everyone else's is... your dog may benefit from a more positive style of training, but not everyone's will... ADT has hundreds of happy customers, and they are the ONLY obedience school in melbourne i know of that will take just about any dog... and they will sooner give up on the handler than they will on the dog... my Rotty can be VERY human agressive, and is also picky about the dogs he likes... there is no way in HELL i could take him to a 'positive only' school, he'd end up eating everyone there, me included... but ADT are quite happy for me take him along to lessons and continue to train and desensitise him, instead of alienating us and telling me he should be put down... i'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with ADT, but just because you did, does not mean everyone will... Donnalee: good luck with it all, i may see you one tuesday night, i've only just started attending training myself but plan to drop into a few different venues from time to time... and i do hope you enjoy your time with ADT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Scope - thanks for the response. But I would also like to point out that ADT is not simply about correcting the dog. It is about using tonnes of positive stuff as reward and as motivation. It is about reliability in obedience so you can use that to help keep your dog and others safe. It is about making the messages 'black and white' to make it easier for the dog to learn, making it clear what behaviours will receive all that good stuff. As for the 'problem' dogs (ie dogs with issues) ... it is about the owners learning how to re-gain control, act as leaders so your dog can be assured that in stressful situations it can rely on YOU to control them; and, of course, working to alter the dog's emotional state to have them understand that the world isn't out to 'get them'. Admittedly, there are some cases that cannot be cured - these are nearly always the ones where the issues relate to the dog's critical period as a pup. However, in those cases, we work with the owners to improve the behaviour to a manageable level. You don't get there (either in obedience or behaviour modification) by corrections alone. Attached is a copy photo of one of ADT's members and his dog. Started through pups and is in our Advance Class. You don't get that type of behaviour by simply correcting your dog and not putting in anything else to the training. Hope the photo works - haven't done this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scope Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 as always Erny you've said it so much better than i could... i'm probably thinking along similar lines to you but it just really irks me when someone tells someone else never to correct their dog... i know this hasnt exactly happened in this case, but i think you know what i mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I know what you mean and where you're coming from, Scope. Just wanted to make it clear(er) to those who read here that ADT does use positives ... the more the merrier. Many think that those who use aversives in training do nothing else. I don't think that's what Redhead intended to portray, but felt compelled to clear up any misconceptions that might arise as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhead Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 The story I gave was about my dog and my experience with them. The fact that the trainer told me my dog was dominant was enough of an offput as I know my dog is not dominant. The other thing that upset me was it was under her instruction that I lead pop my dog for getting up from the sit which caused a big problem for me. That trainer did not even acknowledge that my dog was a softer type dog nor was able to help me get my dog to trust me again. I left there in tears and vowed never to go back there again. I am now training at another place who use more positive methods and we are much happier for it - and Skope they too take aggressive dogs! I just don't think that Australian Dog Training is the right place for all dogs with their type of training. Sorry if this causes a stir but this is my opinion and I have a right to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Not a stir, Redhead - there will always be some who don't like somewhere for some reason or other. I'm sorry that you didn't have a nice time when you were there - it is unusual, as ADT is very conscious and proud of their professional approach to both the dogs and their owners. I hope you gave some feedback to the Head Office at the time, as it is only then that concerns can be addressed, discussed and if appropriate, resolved. I'm glad you've found a place where you're happy and that you continue to enjoy training with your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9-Nutter Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 and they will sooner give up on the handler than they will on the dog... As trainers, if you give up on the handler, you effectively give up on the dog....IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 and they will sooner give up on the handler than they will on the dog... As trainers, if you give up on the handler, you effectively give up on the dog....IMO You're right, K9-Nutter. It's the handler that we are training, after all. We do it for the love of the dog, which is usually the same reason the handlers are doing it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scope Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 the problem i had with your post, Redhead, was where you said "i'd look around for a more positive club", suggesting to Donnalee not to go to ADT (at least that's how i interpreted it) but i think we've sorted our views out, thanks to Erny in terms of giving up on the handler before giving up on the dog i didnt mean giving up on the handler WAS giving up on the dog, because sometimes people are just f***ing idiots, and the dog could do great things if they were handled by someone else... i've watched you guys (ADT instructors) bash your heads against walls for months with handlers, only to think you've made real progress one week, and then watch things slide back to how they were the next... there's no way in hell i'd have the patience to do that... i did the NDTF course because i wanted to be a DOG trainer, not a HUMAN trainer, which is why i'll never be an obedience instructor, or really an instructor of any sort... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) ... i've watched you guys (ADT instructors) bash your heads against walls for months with handlers, only to think you've made real progress one week, and then watch things slide back to how they were the next... there's no way in hell i'd have the patience to do that... Thanks for your support Scope, however, if you've seen us bash our heads against the wall, it's not that often and not always at the handlers/owners, - many a time it's at ourselves for not having found a way to motivate some owners to motivate the dogs. I think all dog trainers will agree that there are disappointing times when the owners don't follow through with consistency in their training/handling. But there are, fortunately, many more times when we get the opportunity to rejoice and share the joy of owner and dog because training/behaviour is progressing and/or the relationship between the two has improved. The latter is what restores our energy and passion to continue on. ;) Patience is a virtue .... and in fact, critical, regardless of whether you are training people to train dogs, or whether you're training the dogs themselves. :p Edited March 10, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scope Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) i'll loan you my crowbar of understanding, Erny (to use on the HANDLER, of course)... or maybe i should just shut up now... lol edit for clarification :P Edited March 10, 2006 by Scope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I actually really enjoy instructing, seeing everybody progress, discussing things and watching everybody blossom. Don't get to do it so often anymore though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne_Fury Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Training is all about finding what works for you and your dogs, some methods work well for some, and not at all for others. I have had nothing but positive experiences with ADT and they have been very helpful. Redhead it is a shame that you had a bad experience with ADT, but great that you have found a club that is what you were looking for and that you are getting the results you want from your training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) i'll loan you my crowbar of understanding, Erny (to use on the HANDLER, of course)... or maybe i should just shut up now... loledit for clarification ;) You don't have to do that, Scope, lol, but we differ in that I don't view training/instructing as being that frustrating. Any difficulties I come up against, I regard as a challenge. The way I see it, that the handlers/owners are at training shows they're taking the first step in the right direction. Edited March 10, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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