flashfire Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 (edited) My 14 week old female GR puppy really doesn't like other dogs. She either has no interest in them or is afraid of them. She came from a litter of 10, with many other dogs on the property, however since I've had her (8 weeks) she has no interest in socialising with other dogs. I started her at puppy pre-school straight away, and she wouldn't socialise with the other puppies and spent much of the time trying to run, tail between legs, away from their prying noses for all 4 classes. Now that she is vaccinated I've started taking her out and about - there is a dog park up the road and the other night there was 4 adult dogs all very interested (and gentle) wanting to say hello. My puppy did her best to keep away from them the whole time - pulling against the leash etc. Same again the following night. Yesterday, my best friend brought her Rotti over and Indy was petrified and, when she eventually overcame the fear, simply not very interested in socialising with the Rotti. We then took both dogs to the beach where there was about 30 dogs of all shapes and sizes, on leash and off leash. Again, she just didn't want to have a bar of them. Irrespective of the size & breed of the dog that just wants to say hello, Indy won't let them near her - she faces away from them, tail between legs. pulling on the leash to get away. When she stops being scared, she just sits down facing the opposite direction, quick to move away if again approached by a dog. Indy is also very submissive around other people. As soon as a stranger puts her hand out to pat her, she lays down then soon rolls over onto her back. It's weird because Indy does her absolute best to get people to notice her to give her attention, then once she has it she is a massive sook! Which is in complete contrast to the dog she is at home when it's just me and my partner with her, and also anyone she is comfortable with in my home (friends, relatives etc). Is there a problem or is this normal? Edited November 3, 2006 by flashfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinSpirits Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I actually would like to know the solution to this because Flossie is 12 weeks and acts the exact same way around dogs generally, but at the dog meet she did settle down after a while when she realized I wasnt going to save her from the big mean dogs lol. I dont want her to be overly jumpy around other people though, just more confident when we approach them. Tristan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latisha Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Sounds more like a temperament issue. If so, as I understand it you can help the certain behaviours (eg. being scared of dogs, noises etc) by desensitising but it will always be apart of the dogs temperament. I could be totally way off here so it will be interesting to hear the responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dol_sam Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 When I first started reading I was gonna say give it time, cause Darcy used to be pretty non-plussed by other dogs, would avoid them or show no interest whatsoever, but got over it with a couple of trips to the park and a couple of sessions at puppy school but then as you said that she's had a fair bit of socialisation since with dogs of all sizes maybe it is a temprement thing. I guess if it is a temprement thing, the best thing to do would be to make certain that you never, even subconsciously, reinforce the behaviour. My Ridgeback cross Jasper is a typical very reserved ridgey, he's very suspicious of strangers and wont let people he doesn't know anywhere near him. It's taken a year of taking him to obedience training (probably less consistently that it should be due to taking other dogs also) but just getting him out each week in the company of that which scares him and making him concentrate and work has made quite a big difference to him. When he's working nicely (on and off) he simply forgets about that which scares him (the person attached to the other dog next to or behind him). He's just a big wimp really and so instead of fighting him and forcing him I took the calm but persistent approach of just marching on through the scary situation and he's much better. If nothing else they learn that you aren't paying any attention to "the scary thing" and that you are obviously the boss and if you're not scared maybe they can trust you. It seems that way for Jasper at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashfire Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 (edited) Well, my once scared puppy is now a scared 11month old! She hasn't really changed much with regards to how she interacts with other dogs. She gets plenty of exposure to dogs at parks but is the biggest wuss I have ever met. However, she is more interested in dogs than she was before - likes to have a bit of a sniff but has no idea how to play and would certainly never initiate it. She just turns her back on the dogs and sits, or (more typically) lays down and plays dead. She gets picked on a lot too - overly submissive I'd say so every dog who likes to be alpha has to reinforce that with her. I don't know what to do, really. We're in the process of trying to find a perfect second dog but it's a bit tough. Fortunately she has overcome her fear of people; she is very, very friendly! She approaches strangers with enthusiasm, but still gets straight onto her belly when they go to pat her, which she loves. I found out recently that she was the smallest of her litter. Perhaps her temperament is symptomatic of that? Edited October 31, 2006 by flashfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagalot Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 hey flashfire where are you???? what state???? pm me if you like cheers sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashfire Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 I'm in the inner west of Sydney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagalot Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 emmm not sure what type of Doggy day care centres you have in Sydney but i am in Melbourne and i run a doggy day care service from home...i seem to get quite alot of dogs that come in for more socializing with my dogs as they are in the same situation you are in with your dog. (these dogs are not placed in a large group situation, its one on one introduction. Also each dog takes it own time to come out and want to play. I have had dogs come in for 4 or 5 days before i even bought out another dog, just seeing and hearing them was enough to start with, plus getting used of me first.. also dogs being away from there owners all so tend to come out of there shell more caz they realise daddy or mummy ist there to protect them) this seems to work well but isn't as harse as it sounds.....its the person in charge of the other dog that counts. with scared dogs, its a slow process, with introduction to other dogs and needs to be with very calm but happy type of dog, off lead and in a comfortable home where they can duck for cover if they are not quite ready to meet the other dog. some times i play with the other dog, pretending the scared dog isnt there, when they see the other dog playing and having fun, they feel the need to want to come and join in the fun. it also helps if the other dog is well trained and can hold a good drop stay while your dog investigates the not so scary other dog what you need is to find some one (day care in someones home) or a professional dog trainer that has a well trained dog. if you were to find someone that can help you with this just once a week, you will notice your dog slowly come out of his shell. The idea is for your dog to slowly gain trust, in a quite and more calm environment. such places like dog parks and dog schools are most likely going to freak out your dog more and thats why he is finding it hard to make friends. i hope this is some help if you want to talk to me more about this then feel free to PM me any time. its a scary world out there, but dogs need friends and need to have trust in other dogs......get on top of it before the scared behavior turns to some thing much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 One of my dogs is similer like that, she went to puppy preschool and was well socilised but never took much intrest in other dogs, she just ignores them. When she was 4yrs we got a second dog, a pup and she was a little fearful at first but after a few days she started to play with her a little and then alot, they are now typical sisters, likes their time together and likes their time apart, they have a great relasonship, she still has no intrest in other dogs except her little sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylieandpossum Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 this is probably a stupid comment but i am wondering if you let her off lead with other dogs at all. you say that she pulls against the lead (obviously she is on lead in the park etc) but in my experience, a leash attached causes fear because she cant run away so she has to act submissive, or fight. i have a koolie who was very fearful of other dogs even tho shes from a farm but she is not at all reactive to them off lead because she can approach them in her own time and with lots of space. she was very frightened of groups at first and is still fearful of some dogs on lead. the way we got over it was going to a dog club where all the other dogs were fully socialised and respected her need for space. even tho the dogs your puppy has met are friendly by the sounds of it, sometimes friendly is still scary for my girl, who needs to be left alone until she can approach at her pace. we started with small amounts of dogs in a fenced area, and we moved all handlers right away, if you are hovering, she will cling. they pick up on even the most subconcious of your own stress/anxiety signals. eventually she learnt how to play so we let in more dogs over time, now she is fine in a big group and will run and chase the ball etc and has learnt some manners of her own. it took time tho and the more things i did with her, the more places i took her, the more experiences she had, (and not just with dogs but with everything - possum used to bark at rocks on the side of the path when we were walking she was so scared! ) the more confidence she got and the better she copes. theres no real reason why she wont get better as she gets older and more confident. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylieandpossum Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Well, my once scared puppy is now a scared 11month old! She hasn't really changed much with regards to how she interacts with other dogs. She gets plenty of exposure to dogs at parks but is the biggest wuss I have ever met. However, she is more interested in dogs than she was before - likes to have a bit of a sniff but has no idea how to play and would certainly never initiate it. She just turns her back on the dogs and sits, or (more typically) lays down and plays dead. She gets picked on a lot too - overly submissive I'd say so every dog who likes to be alpha has to reinforce that with her. sorry i just realised that you put your original post months ago so my advice is probably a bit redudant now, but i would still say that it is only in the last 6 months that possum has really improved (she is just over 2) and a big part of that is the work we were doing at herding school, this is where most of her confidence has come from. also MY confidence has improved - i let her go near other dogs all the time now and dont worry about how shes going to react (i try and turn away actually) and she is always fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashfire Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 (edited) Thanks for all the advice guys! I am trialling her at a doggie daycare with just 2 other dogs tomorrow, just to see how she goes, and hopefully without me there she will have a great time and not have the opportunity to hide behind me. She's just a funny one. Whenever we go to the park and she sees other dogs there she is super keen to go check them out, so I let her off leash and she runs towards them, stops short and then freaks out when they approach her. It's obviously just going to take time, and to be honest she is probably picking up on my slightly overprotective vibes - as I said she gets picked on, and I hate seeing other dogs bully her - standing over her, getting in her face, putting their mouths around her neck . Hopefully the doggie daycare place will help, as will the addition of a second dog in our home. I'll report back with the result from her daycare experience tomorrow. Edited October 31, 2006 by flashfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylieandpossum Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Thanks for all the advice guys! I am trialling her at a doggie daycare with just 2 other dogs tomorrow, just to see how she goes, and hopefully without me there she will have a great time and not have the opportunity to hide behind me. She's just a funny one. Whenever we go to the park and she sees other dogs there she is super keen to go check them out, so I let her off leash and she runs towards them, stops short and then freaks out when they approach her. It's obviously just going to take time, and to be honest she is probably picking up on my slightly overprotective vibes - as I said she gets picked on, and I hate seeing other dogs bully her - standing over her, getting in her face, putting their mouths around her neck . Hopefully the doggie daycare place will help, as will the addition of a second dog in our home. I'll report back with the result from her daycare experience tomorrow. oh i just so totally relate! this is exactly the situation i had with poss, she actually really just wanted to play but didnt know how to give the proper signals so it took her getting rumbled a couple of times (in the way you describe which is really just other dogs teaching her to mind her manners) and then she learnt how to play politely and doesnt get bothered by anyone anymore. good luck tomorrow anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 It's obviously just going to take time, and to be honest she is probably picking up on my slightly overprotective vibes - as I said she gets picked on, and I hate seeing other dogs bully her - standing over her, getting in her face, putting their mouths around her neck I'd be really careful letting this kind of thing happen to such a young pup. It sounds to me like she's really not ready to mingle at an offlead park with adult dogs. Are there any smaller/younger dogs there that she can mix with? I can't imagine that having larger adults standing over her and mouthing her neck will do any good for her confidence. Also, when introducing her to other dogs (one-on-one) that would scare her, I'd ask the other owner to get their dog to drop and then let Indy approach them on her own time. I do this pretty often for pups and small dogs that want to say hello to my boy, but are too scared because of his size. They usually approach from behind and have a good sniff, then get happy enough for a nose to nose sniff which is really cool It's great to watch them walk away with their owner with a bit of a "I said hello to the big dog!!" swagger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 It's not that she's not interested, it's that she's too scared. Be careful at daycare, dogs that are forced to socialise can get worse. You need a trainer or behaviourist who knows what they're doing, you need to socialise her on her terms, you need to manage situations so that she is never scared, running away, getting rolled, being harrassed. You also need to reinforce when she is showing calming signals, or deferring signals when interacting with other dogs. You need some help, you need to do it now, you need VERY controlled situations set up with other dogs, I doubt doggy daycare can cater for that. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashfire Posted November 2, 2006 Author Share Posted November 2, 2006 Well, she had a GREAT day yesterday at daycare! I dropped her off at 8am to spend the day in the company of a lovely 7month old lab boy, and a gentle old lady smaller dog. She was very comfortable with these dogs, and apparently spent much of the day initiating play with the lab and running around the yard with him. I am so happy! But yes - Mel, I need to be mindful of some of the dogs in our area. They're just not nice. jaybeece - she IS a big dog! She's 11 months old now and fully grown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Oh how funny, I didn't even realise the dates... Good to hear she is going well. :D Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 jaybeece - she IS a big dog! She's 11 months old now and fully grown. :D Hehe, sorry! I didn't notice the dates either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagalot Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 ohhh thats wondeful news i am glad she ha a good day i would concider taking her to doggy day care maybe once a week or so for a while this will really help break that "scared of other dogs issue" :D there will always be other dogs that are not trustworthy, but its best to stay away from the bad ones and seek out playful happy dogs, good luck cheers sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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