Inka3095 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Hi everyone I've done a search on this forum, and have been doing a lot of reading, but I need your advice anyway. My mum owns two kelpie x GSD girls aged 6. They're about 35kg each and are walked together by my sister or myself. We have always walked them using the Halti head collar as we were recommended that product when they were pups. However, they've always been very pully dogs and get a little out of control if they see something fun to chase, like a rabbit. One pulls A LOT but the other is reasonably ok, the lead is always taut, but she's not as bad as Inka. The haltis have been close to useless for years, they've just become used to them and they don't stop the pulling AT ALL. They've also developed very strong neck muscles to counteract OUR pulling. Recently I've noticed the bridge of Inka's nose (where the Halti strap sits) is growing a painful ridge, and the hair is being rubbed off slowly but surely. There's got to be a better method. I think the Gentle Leader is too similar and the strap looks like it sits in the same spot. The Infin8 Black Dog head collar looks OK, but do you guys recommend any other methods of walking for annoying dogs.?? They're heavy and very very strong, so we've avoided the harnesses, as they definately have the power to pull us off our feet if they wish. I know they could do with more training, but we've had countless 'come-to-your-house' trainers (no good, they got too miserable doing the methods we were told to do), and we can't take them to classes because they're extremely dog aggressive. Basically, I just want a better method of walking them. At the moment, walking is a trial and it shouldn't be. I live out of home, and my little girl Kenya (avatar) is a pleasure to walk, and she's on a harness. Any ideas? Thanks heaps for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 (edited) I've got no experience with the new black dog head collars, have been meaning to get 1 to try out for ages but I have had some succes with a harness brought out by Gentle Leader. I forget right now what it is called though :rolleyes: It's not the sense-ation, that is another brand but it is similar. They work by the leash being attached to the front of the chest so they remove the opposition reflex. I tried 1 on a very bouncy boxer in a class. The owners reactions were just not quick enough to read this dog and she would be walking nicely then lunge to sniff at something, catching the owner unaware. When she did this with this harness - the EZY WALK (Knew I would remember!) - she ended up facing the owner. And very quickly changed her behaviour as when she pulled it got her nowhere. Having said all of this, this dog was not reactive to other dogs and personally my preference with a reactive dog is to have control of the head. In which case I would use a head collar. And from what I have heard with the infin8, you do not have the same head control either. Sometimes a change of brand with head collars can help as some styles fit different dogs better than others, however it sounds like these dogs have learnt to pull with a head collar anyway. Ideally I would recommend having a look at the Delta society webpage - http://www.deltasocietyaustralia.com.au/in...ctors_index.htm to find a qualified instructor in your area. Good luck. (edited cos I can't spell) Edited February 14, 2006 by piper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleverPaws Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 (edited) you know what I've always found to work a dream with 'pulling' dogs? whenever they pull the lead taught, turn around and walk the other way...as soon as they catch up again (nice cheery voice "come on come one!") turn and walk back the way you were origionally...then the moment they go past your 'heel line', turn again...never meant to be a miserable experiance, simply give a negative reinforcement everytime they start to step in front. also dogs should heel with a lose leash at all times..if they're used to you keeping it tight, whats the difference between a little tight and a lot tight? Edited February 14, 2006 by CleverPaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scope Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 i dont know if it would help you at all, but i use prong collars on both of my dogs... the shepherd in particular used to pull like crazy... the first day i put the prong on her she ran out the front door, reached the end of the lead, stopped dead, and has not pulled since, i didnt even need to give her a pop on the prong collar at all... for ages she wouldnt even take up the slack in the lead... now she walks with it just taut... and i only need to give her a slight correction if she's stuffed up obedience-wise... and i can also give her a good strong correction which makes her stop and think if she's just lunged at someone/something, as she's not exactly social either... i can stop my rotty dead in his tracks with one, as well, and he weighs nearly 50kg... imo they're much better than a check chain as they distribute the force evenly around the dog's neck, and they're also limited-slip... you may not want to use something like this, but it's there for you to think about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inka3095 Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 Hmm... I cannot imagine my over-protective mother letting me try one of those prong collars on her precious baby Scope... :rolleyes: Where could I buy one in Australia? I think I read that Sas uses these on her danes. Anyone have any negative experiences with these collars? I need to see both sides if I turn up with that 'torture device' at home. They look very promising IMO. Thanks very much for your responses everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scope Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 i will PM you with the two places i know that you can get them in aus (i am sure there are more but i only know two for sure)... just explain to your mum that they work like a mother dog would discipline a pup, and the "teeth" on the collar are the same as the teeth on a dog... put it around her leg or upper arm or something and show her it doesnt hurt... ok so they probably will hurt if you have to give your dog a huge correction, but hopefully you wouldnt have to do this too often... you can also hook your lead to both the 'live' ring and the 'dead' ring at the same time, to eliminate any slip in the collar, so it wont tighten, and the dogs still dont like pulling into the prongs.. and to help her feel better, if you're any good at sewing, you can make up a lycra sleeve or something to go over them, so they dont look as bad... or cover them up with a sock with a hole cut in the toe or something.. that also softens the effect as the prongs dont come into direct contact with the dog... in the US you can get 'comfort tips' for them, which are little rubber caps that fit over the ends of the prongs... myself i swear by the things, if used correctly and safely, they are a great training tool, especially for aggressive/hyper dogs... they may not be suitable for all dogs, but you can certainly use them without a problem on most of them... my rotty loves both his muzzle and his prong collar... he nearly knocks me over with excitement and tries to put his muzzle on himself - i'm sure he'd try to do the same with his prong collar if he could... he also shoves his head through his harness for me... i will have to get a video of it to show you one day... lol i have only had one bad experience to speak of with them, and that was when my rotty got his prong collar caught on the hook of an ocky strap (bungy cord, whatever you want to call them) that we'd left on the back of his ute crate with the hook the wrong way around... this was completely avoidable and totally our fault... no harm came to my dog as i saw straight away what had happened, and the ocky strap end that was caught on his collar had unhooked itself from the mesh side and was now stretching into the cage, so he wasnt stuck dead against the side, just being pulled towards it a bit... we had stopped within 30 seconds and i jumped straight in the back and removed the ocky strap from his collar, and then put it back on his crate with the hook the right way around so he couldnt catch on it again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne_Fury Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I have heard great things about prong collars but the problem is that they are illegal in Victoria. I've used the new blackdog infin8 and have had great success. They are great because instead of your usual type halters the lead clips on at the back of the neck like a regular collar. The halter part is actually attached to a martingale collar and the dogs have to pull reasonably hard to activate the halter tightening over the nose. Dogs will learn to pull in almost any collar or halter but i think the infin8 is worth a try :rolleyes: Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 (edited) Hmm... I cannot imagine my over-protective mother letting me try one of those prong collars on her precious baby Scope... :rolleyes: Where could I buy one in Australia? Try this site Edited February 14, 2006 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scope Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 i had actually let Inka know in PM they are illegal, and also given her the link to K9Force's site as i've said they may not be something she wants to use, but it's still something to think about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Personally I've never used them but trying to think of things that don't go over the nose bridge so what about the sporn halters, anyone have any experience with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne_Fury Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 i had actually let Inka know in PM they are illegal, and also given her the link to K9Force's site :rolleyes:as i've said they may not be something she wants to use, but it's still something to think about Yep it's good for people to have options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 As with any equipment, the user should be schooled in how to use it properly. I hear what the OP says about not going to classes because of dog aggression issues, however I feel that for the dog's sake, working on obedience, receiving the appropriate tuition on "how to" (re the equipment and teaching of obedience) as well as on the desensitisation/management of the dog's issues would be for the best. Having in-home lessons to begin with is good - but they will only work if: 1. You engage a trainer/instructor qualified for the job; and 2. You follow through CONSISTENTLY with the advice given. If you do consider going to classes, you will need to check first that the school you're going to go to have instructors equipped with the knowledge to help you deal with your dog's aggression issues. Provided you're prepared to follow through with the advice given, both in relation to obedience training and behaviour modification, I'd be surprised if things did not improve for your mum, assuming she goes to the appropriate training club for her dog. Of course, I can recommend one .... you're in Melbourne, right? Australian Dog Training If you're a member of this training club, in-house training can be given at a discounted rate. Feel free to PM me if you have further questions. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy's mum Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Hi all, Just wondering where I can purchase an Easy-Walk Harness in Melbourne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 i have used the infin8 from blackdog and find it works - it is a martigale and halti in one, also have you tryed any obedience pulling exercises to help the dogs. i can advice you on these if you email me they are pretty simple. gandalf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 a permit is required to import the prong collars into australia and trainers that sell them to clients have this permit. and rightly so, this a not a training tool for just any dog ie why they cannot be purchased in pet shops, vets etc. i would not purchase one online unless a qualified trainer has recommended that it is suitable for your dogs. and it also needs to be fitted correctly perferably by a trainer that is licenced to sell them. gandalf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inka3095 Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 Thanks everyone *hugs* I'm actually on holidays in sunny Mildura atm, hence my tardy reply, but coz I'm DOL addicted I'll be heading to an internet cafe for a 'coffee' every couple of days. I've spoken to my Mum about the prong collar and she's willing to give it a try, so when I get back I'll let her read everything you've said and ask her what she'd like to do. She's very unwell so I don't think she'd be able to take them to obedience classes but that can't stop my sister and I from doing it. I think borrowing one and seeing how it goes is a great option, I hear they're quite expensive, so that's probably the smart way to go, but I'll worry about details later. I hear ADT are just about the best you can get, so I'd definately be trying them first. Thanks erny I'll be sure to chase you down and pm you to death (agh!) when i get back to melbourne. Just as a final thing, I've seen those 'sporn halters' around in the shops, and they have a collar/arm band/harness-looking contraption around the two front legs... Anyone tried them? Good/bad/useless/awesome??? I think mum would like the idea of nice sherpa padding around Inka's legs.... pah! Pampered dog she is... <-- most likely half the problem Thanks heaps again everyone, you're so helpful!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scope Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 hehehe, mothers are fun arent they... mine is coming to stay around easter and she's going to have a coronary when she meets Hudson... i can bet her first words will be "i'd feel a lot better if you got rid of that dog"... but hey she doesnt have to even go near him and i have to train and handle him and i feel confident and comfortable (even if a tad wary still) around him, so it's my choice and she can go jump :P at least your mum is considering all the options and hasnt had a screaming fit at you for suggesting things... *grin* again, good luck.. hope you can find a solution that suits your needs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 hope everything works out for you, good luck with the fur kids, gandalf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Inka: I've seen those 'sporn halters' around in the shops, and they have a collar/arm band/harness-looking contraption around the two front legs... Anyone tried them? Good/bad/useless/awesome??? Same deal as a halti - its a management tool that's only as effective as the person using it. Without training in its proper use, you'll be back at square one. Dogs can pull as hard or harder on one as on a halti. I see dogs do it at my club all the time. Only decent, consistent training will give you a solution to the behavioural issues you face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cactus Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Glad you are looking at alternatives, because if the halti isn't working, then the infin8 sure wont. Neither is designed for "horror pullers" ;) I've got one of each, and they are great for mild to moderate pullers- a good tool to keep them under control while they are in training. I have found I prefer the halti to the infin8- less fiddly, easier to use, and on my dog, more effective. The dog obedience club we attend recommends and sells gentle leaders. Again- no good for horror pullers though. I almost bought a remote training collar (was tossing up whether to get that or the prong collar) but one day we just seemed to turn a corner with her pulling and chasing behaviours. She no longer tries to drag me accross roads and over to aggro dogs or runs after and tumbles every swf she sees. Miracles CAN happen! All the best Inka! Scope, I couldn't count how many times my mum advised me to get rid of Zara, and she came up with a wide variety of arguments, like: she's too big for me, she's too powerful, its not fair on my other dog, its not fair to my cats, she takes too much of my time, life was easier before, someone else would suit her better, another dog would suit me better, I'm not experienced enough, its too late for her to change, she'll always have problem behaviours, I'll get kicked out of my house, she's costing a fortune... bla blah blah. Good thing I dont listen to my mum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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