kateshep Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Hi myszka Could you please expand on this comment ? It might come as a surpise to you but dog dont naturally protect their owners, they protect themselves... Would this be because dogs perhaps naturally look to us to protect them instead, being the leader of the pack ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Basically but if you really want a full explanation search K9s posts he did explain it some time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 myszka Out of interest did you think about other breeds to do Schutzhund or protection with? Which ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 I was recommended a belgian. Now forgive my ignorance I can never remember which one is what, but it the light couloured on with longer hair. Id like a Beauceron but I dont think there are any in Australia.. In another life where everything will be perfect for me Ill import a dobie... or a Beauceron and a Polish hound (not for protection of course ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arawnhaus Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Bex, Your Pup sounds as though he has great potential for a temp assessment. I have a Rotty puppy who is quite keen to learn and she has good defense drive and Prey, though she does have a small amount of fear which is a good thing! An over confident dog does not make a reliable protector, it takes an element of fear to bring forward physical aggression IMHO. Good On/Off switches are a must for Schutzhund dogs, some breeds are "easier" to turn on and OFF. This would be why some clubs are particular with the Dogs.... Good luck with it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EISHUND Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 (edited) I dont own a sleeve, but I have a bite bar, my dog hits it hard from whatever distance he has been sitting and staying. Holds it, gets swung around my head multiple times, lets go when I tell him AND will stop when running up to bite it. All this from a pit bull type dog. My boy would never let go of another dog, but with something he sees as a toy, such as a bite bar or a sleeve, he will. And as America has proven many times, Bull breed dogs CAN do schutzhund. Phatdex, the fact that your dog hits the bite bar hard in your words, does NOT make it a Schutzhund dog... It's that mentality that clubs want to keep out... Schutzhund in NOT all about bite work... I hear no one on here saying, but oh, my dog shows a natural tracking ability, or , my dog does is very responsive to obedience training... Those not happy on here that own a breed not allowed at Aussie Sch Clubs seem to continually go on and on and on about the "bite" stuff.. It doesn't look good... And, no one was has said that bull breeds can't do Schutzhund... In America, you can do everything! Edited March 2, 2006 by Luv my White Shepherd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 I actually think the tracking component is going to be the most challenging - it is the bit I know the least about at the moment I plan on looking at joining a tracking club this year with Diesel to see what it is all about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arawnhaus Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 (edited) My girl has a keen nose, she's naturally very responsive to all members of the family, she however was chosen solely on temp from the litter.... Biting down on the sleeve is important, "hitting it" that's what my Dogs do, to bring down punching bags before shred and attack time Edited March 2, 2006 by Rottywoman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EISHUND Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 My girl has a keen nose, she's naturally very responsive to all members of the family, she however was chosen solely on temp from the litter.... Biting down on the sleeve is important, "hitting it" that's what my Dogs do, to bring down punching bags before shred and attack time Yes, you're a right RW biting down on the sleeve is important.. ... However, people with excluded breeds need to stop with the "my dog can bite" so it should be able to do Schutzhund.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatdex Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Phatdex, the fact that your dog hits the bite bar hard in your words, does NOT make it a Schutzhund dog... It's that mentality that clubs want to keep out... Schutzhund in NOT all about bite work... Um, I mentioned that he would naturally be good at the bite stuff, I said I would need to work hard with him for the rest of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatdex Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 And, no one was has said that bull breeds can't do Schutzhund... In America, you can do everything! So whats the reason they cant compete in it in Australia again? Just because some people say so? If ANY dog can complete the tasks required of them, they should be allowed to compete. Simple as that. THEN, maybe ppl would turn up to these clubs. Even if they cant compete. Let them train and have fun with the rest of the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EISHUND Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 So whats the reason they cant compete in it in Australia again? Just because some people say so? If ANY dog can complete the tasks required of them, they should be allowed to compete. Simple as that.THEN, maybe ppl would turn up to these clubs. Even if they cant compete. Let them train and have fun with the rest of the group. Schutzhund is a serious sport.. It takes great time, dedication and committment to train the Schutzhund dog.. You train to trial.. The instructors dedicate their time in the hope you trial well.. I don't hear any Schuthund clubs complaining that they are too small.. It is not a warm and fuzzy group of people, sipping their tea, where they sit around and have fun all night petting each others dogs.. Schutzhund people do not do it "because it's fun".... So whats the reason they cant compete in it in Australia again? I dont' make the rules.. same reason i can't show my dog as White GSD, coz it's against the rules set out by this country.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 if you dont like the rules complain to the FCI, theres no need for myszka to change breeds there are good breeders of working dobes here in aus lmws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatdex Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 (edited) Schutzhund is a serious sport.. It takes great time, dedication and committment to train the Schutzhund dog.. You train to trial.. The instructors dedicate their time in the hope you trial well.. I don't hear any Schuthund clubs complaining that they are too small.. It is not a warm and fuzzy group of people, sipping their tea, where they sit around and have fun all night petting each others dogs.. Schutzhund people do not do it "because it's fun".... I dont' make the rules.. same reason i can't show my dog as White GSD, coz it's against the rules set out by this country.. The great time and commitment cant be put in by other owners of other breeds? "They dont do it for fun"????? Why do it then? Do they self combust if they dont train in schutzhund once a week? I didnt say u make the rules, just that they make no sense. If all breeds are allowed to do it in America, and they do and can get SCHIII or whatever, then what possible justification can there be for not letting them do it everywhere besides breedism is there? Buggered if I know if my dog could do tracking, probably not, but if my dog could, and I was dedicated to putting the time and effort in (which I am also prob not) then why not? The only valid argument put forward so far has been, "Those are the rules". Thats like saying black ppl cant compete in swimming. They arent generally good at it, but if u want to do it.......................... Well u cant, coz those are the rules. Edited March 2, 2006 by phatdex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 The great time and commitment cant be put in by other owners of other breeds? it can be they can create there own club i dont see why schutzhund which has been in australia for almost 20 years should have to change to suit people, if schutzhund rules and regulations dont suit you...dont do it theres nothing stopping anyone else from creating there own schutzhund clubs that can compete under the same rules and governing body of america noone whos competing in schutzhund is asking for the rules to change its just the outsiders so how bout the outsiders quit complaining about how stupid schutzhund rules and regulations are and create there own "sport" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatdex Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 What are the diffs between Schutzhund and french ring? Is there french ring in Aus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 (edited) french ring has no tracking less obedience rules etc, french ring decoys wear full body suits so the dog can bite anywhere schutzhund mainly use bite arm ETA: theres no french ring in aus Edited March 2, 2006 by Jeff Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EISHUND Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 if you dont like the rules complain to the FCI, lmws exactly right, sitting around complaining doesn't do anything..... take action... The great satisfaction of your dog trialling and gaining a title after all the time and effort you have both put in... that's why they do it Phatdex.... So if you can't compete, i can't see the point.. Why would an instructor want to dedicate all that time into training you? It is not breedism.. It is for dogs bred to work in this manner.. Those breeds are known for their ability to work, known for stable temperaments and a good "on/off" switch to be able to deal with bite work.. This is as a "whole.." Not just individual dogs.. yes, an APBT may be able to do it, but because it can, it doesn't make the "whole" breed suitable.. You cannot compare Australia to America... Pahleese, in America you can do anything.. It's their whole freedom/constitution BS.. The great time and commitment cant be put in by other owners of other breeds?it can be they can create there own club i dont see why schutzhund which has been in australia for almost 20 years should have to change to suit people, if schutzhund rules and regulations dont suit you...dont do it theres nothing stopping anyone else from creating there own schutzhund clubs that can compete under the same rules and governing body of america noone whos competing in schutzhund is asking for the rules to change its just the outsiders so how bout the outsiders quit complaining about how stupid schutzhund rules and regulations are and create there own "sport" JJ's, i'm with you.. Well said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatdex Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 The great satisfaction of your dog trialling and gaining a title after all the time and effort you have both put in... that's why they do it Phatdex.... That = fun IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 theres no need for myszka to change breeds there are good breeders of working dobes here in aus Jeff as much as I belive that there are good working dobes in aus I ahve to say that they conformation is not of a show ring standard, so again Id ahve to make a choice of what do I give up. Give up the show ring or give up the sch training? Personal choice I guess. BTW is is Nathan that has dobes? Would you please either you or Nathan contact me privatelly, Ill send you my contact details by a pm. Let them train and have fun with the rest of the group. You might have missed the point that sch training is 90% individual. You turn up for a class there is no class, no group. All dogs are locked up, one is out being trained. That one finishes, the next one is out. Lets say there are 10 dogs to train, 15 minutes each, do the maths how long will it take and if you are last how long do you wait for your turn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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