I Need Clicker Help For One Of My Dogs

[Zenith]

I have done some initial training using a clicker with all of my four dogs. With each dog I have been asking 'SIT' (if they respond) CLICK and then food reward. Three of my dogs caught on extremely quickly and have moved onto doing tricks and other commands, graduating to no food reward.

Harley however has a terrible reaction to the 'CLICK' - even though I have a food reward in my hand he tries to get away from me as fast as he can. He is scared of the noise, and even though I have repeated and repeated it the scare from the click still overrides his want for the food (he is a guts, and will usually do anything for food).

I have been putting him nearby whilst I have been training one of the other dogs, so that he can get used to the noise, and also see that the other dog is calm when it happens. Although he just goes as far as he can away from us whenever he hears the click. I have also tried having him and another dog in front of me, and asking them both to sit -Click - and reward, but he tries to get away as soon as he hears the click.

He also becomes nervous when there is storms or fireworks (but he's getting alot better, and we can trust him outside with no destructive behaviour), and he had a nervous reaction when we put the bug zapper on outside, he is slowly getting better with this too, and will basically just sit there when its on, especially if we sit outside and just ignore him and make no fuss (he calms quickly).

Should I continue to try and desensitise him to the Clicker?

Can anyone give me any ideas or exercises to try with him (I know its hard without seeing the dog)?

ETA: Harley is a three year old border collie male (desexed).

Edited February 2, 2006 by Zenith

[MonElite]

Why dont you instead of a click do a verbal marker.

[Zenith]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm happy to use other methods, but I'd prefer to combat the problem (if possible without stressing him too much). The problem it causes is I can't train any of the other dogs in earshot of him otherwise he basically cowers as far away from us as possible whenever he hears the clicker noise.

[MonElite]

Than make it a possitive experience, start with clicks far away so they are not so loud in his ear. You stay with the dog get someone to click at the distance.

slowly bring the clicker closer over several days.

Edited February 2, 2006 by myszka

[Zenith]

Thanks

So I ask him to SIT, he does, so the other person 'clicks' and I reward with food. Slowly decreasing the distance over a period of time?

[MonElite]

I personally wouldnt use a click as a marker at this stage.

Just get him used to the sound.

Play ball, do whatever and let the sound be made somewhere else.

BTW I dont train with the clicker, but if my dog was affraid of something thats what would be doing.

Edited February 2, 2006 by myszka

[Zenith]

Thanks again for the explaination - I think desensitising him to it like you posted above, would work.

My only worry with not using the clicker as the marker, is that it may be difficult then to train him to have it as a marker later on.

Although its not a major concern, I'd just rather not have him panicking each time he hears the click.

[ness]

Hey Zenith,

My border collie Ness was also sound sensitive to a clicker and would cower when I clicked it initially. Now she thinks its the best thing since sliced bread. First I would ask what type of clicker are you using? When I started out it was pre the new i-clicks and those box clickers are very loud - so if your dog is scared I would switch to using an i-click. My box clickers have long been in retirment and they even hurt my ears now. The i-clicks are far quieter but still work equally well.

If your already using an i-click then get something like a bowl of slightly melted icecream, gravy or anything like that and then let the dog lick out the bowl and click while the dog is doing that. Initially you might have to start a long way away from the dog like down the end of the hall and slowly reduce the distance.

I can expand on this method if you are using an i-click but my first suggestion would be to try one of those and see if that solves the problem.

Edited February 2, 2006 by ness

[Zenith]

Thanks Myszka and Ness

Ness - I am using an i-click :D

Glad to know I'm not the only one with a dog with a fear of clickers.

Harley at present freaks out when I am about 10 to 15 metres away.

If I try the idea with the food, would it be better to have him on a lead whilst someone else clicks?

[ness]

Hey Zenith,

What about a pen - you know the ones you have to click to get the pen part to come out. Is he afraid of that. Else a quieter click again would be something like one of those fruit juice container lids. I'll hunt out what I had suggested to me when Ness was scared. Its saved away in my email somewhere.

[ness]

1. Employ the assistance of a friend or family member whom the dog likes and

trusts. Muffle the clicker, put some tape over the dimple (ETA is this obviously taking about a box clicker but the principle is the same), about 6 layers and hold it in your pocket, this will stop one pointing it at the dog like a remote control.

2. Get a large bowl of treats not something that is not chopped up,

something like mashed potatoes and gravy. The bowl should be such that the

dog can lap or grab quantities from it.

3. Send the helper to a distance where the dog can barely hear the clicker -

outside, the basement, or down a long hall and into a bedroom.

4. At this stage don't try to match the clicker with the food, have the

helper start clicking the clicker, once every few seconds, while you offer

the special treat. Allow the dog to take a few bites/licks, *remove* the

bowl, allow a few bites/licks, remove the bowl, etc. Still don't try to

match the rhythm of the clicker, as it doesn't matter at this time. What

matters is that the dog is not too stressed to eat when hearing the clicker

at a distance. You are using classical conditioning and reducing the cause

of the behaviour (fear/stressful emotional state of the dog) and as such the

behaviour is not really important as reducing the cause (the clicker sound)

producing a positive emotional .... Later on you can teach a behaviour

again as the dog is clear headed.

5. After several minutes or even in another session, have the helper move

closer and reduce the number of clicks to one about every 7-10 seconds and

start patterning your feeding to the sounds of the click. Click, feed.

Click, feed.

6. Continue at this level, feeding after hearing the click, until you see

the dog begin to visibly startle at the sound and expect the food after

hearing the click.

7. When the helper is in the same room as the dog, start delaying clicks to

sound only after the dog has offered some sort of behaviour such as a slight

head move, remember not to ask for the whole behaviour (a spin) .

Edited February 2, 2006 by ness

[ness]

I would continue to desensitive him only so that you can use it on your other dogs and also you never know if you are going to trial when somebody might be using a clicker and you don't want your dog to freak out. Mine also use to be petrified of squeaky toys to the point where if a dog was playing with one at the park and we were there she would go to the other side of the oval and refuse to come back. If you can get him to the point where he is comfortable and able to use it for training that would be the ideal but bridge words work nearly as well except the accuracy isn't quite the same.

[MonElite]

Slightly off topic here

My dog after being missing for two days developed a fear of loud noices, thunder, clicker etc (didnt bother him at all before)

Thunder is the most annoying (for me) so I try to overcome this somehow.

I have started trainign my dog some time ago with a toy as a reward, he goes mental for it these days.

Each time when Im at home and there is a storm happening I take the ball and run to the park, and play and play with my boy.

I get soaked, he gets soaked but while we play he pays no attention to the thunders, or if they are really really bad he sort of gets worried, but it certainly nothing like a clamped bum etc.

I just hope that one day he will hear thunder and think - yeah that is great!

[Zenith]

YAY!!!!

Thanks for that - very clear, and easy to follow.

I will report back as to how it goes over the weekend :D

[snobbybobby]

I have been putting him nearby whilst I have been training one of the other dogs, so that he can get used to the noise, and also see that the other dog is calm when it happens. Although he just goes as far as he can away from us whenever he hears the click. I have also tried having him and another dog in front of me, and asking them both to sit -Click - and reward, but he tries to get away as soon as he hears the click.

Hi,

I have two dogs who are clicker trained.

My mini schnauzer was very nervous and shy of the clicker at first so I left him inside to watch through the window while I trained the other dog.

It wasn't long before he realized that "real good things are happening when that clicker is around" and he came out to join in the fun. He now goes to a mark and lots of other things thanks to the use of the clicker which he learned to associate with yummy treats.

Try putting your dog away out of "sharp sound range" to see what you are doing with other dogs.

Hope this helps, admittedly, my dog does not respond to thunder but shied at the click initially.

Cheers,

[Zenith]

Slightly off topic here

My dog after being missing for two days developed a fear of loud noices, thunder, clicker etc (didnt bother him at all before)

Thunder is the most annoying (for me) so I try to overcome this somehow.

I have started trainign my dog some time ago with a toy as a reward, he goes mental for it these days.

Each time when Im at home and there is a storm happening I take the ball and run to the park, and play and play with my boy.

I get soaked, he gets soaked but while we play he pays no attention to the thunders, or if they are really really bad he sort of gets worried, but it certainly nothing like a clamped bum etc.

I just hope that one day he will hear thunder and think - yeah that is great!

myszka - Sounds like its definately working for you.

At my fiances previous home, Harley (the BC) used to rip down the fly screens and scratch at the doors and generally freak out whenever storms or fireworks were near. I think it was also heightened because my fiance (before we met) used to let him inside whenever he would begin to freak out, and would make a big fuss of him, which was rewarding his behaviour. The first time I experienced it was when there was a storm during the night and harley broke through the flyscreen and came into our bedroom.

Firstly whenever there was a storm or fireworks, we would bring the dogs inside, and ask for sit, and then give them a food reward. Whenever he began freaking out we would ignore him. He would then settle, and we would ask for sit and reward and if he sat there quietly we would just give him a reassuring pat every now and again. We then graduated to sitting outside and doing the same thing. Its great now because we don't have to worry about him if there is a storm and we aren't home, he remains pretty calm (although he will sit as close to the door as possible). Even if there is a storm during summer when they sleep outside, he doesn't freak out or become destructive.

I like your idea about playing a game with them whilst the scary thing is happening, that would definately work with harley now, but before we did any training, there was little apart from being inside and food that would grab his attention.

[Zenith]

I have been putting him nearby whilst I have been training one of the other dogs, so that he can get used to the noise, and also see that the other dog is calm when it happens. Although he just goes as far as he can away from us whenever he hears the click. I have also tried having him and another dog in front of me, and asking them both to sit -Click - and reward, but he tries to get away as soon as he hears the click.

Hi,

I have two dogs who are clicker trained.

My mini schnauzer was very nervous and shy of the clicker at first so I left him inside to watch through the window while I trained the other dog.

It wasn't long before he realized that "real good things are happening when that clicker is around" and he came out to join in the fun. He now goes to a mark and lots of other things thanks to the use of the clicker which he learned to associate with yummy treats.

Try putting your dog away out of "sharp sound range" to see what you are doing with other dogs.

Hope this helps, admittedly, my dog does not respond to thunder but shied at the click initially.

Cheers,

Thanks :p

[EddyAnne]

Should I continue to try and desensitise him to the Clicker?

Can anyone give me any ideas or exercises to try with him (I know its hard without seeing the dog)?

G'day, Eddy here.

Why don't you try using another clicker. Dogs that are scared, nervous or shy to the clicking noise then consider alternatives that could be used as event markers and used exactly the same as a clicker, say like using other sound that "nice" to your dog like a particular sound your voice could make, and some alternatively use electronic clickers where the tone and volume can be adjusted to suite the dog, and alternatively for deaf dogs they use remote controled vibrating pads which are used exactly the same as a clicker and which could also be suitable for dogs that are not deaf and which just might also address the situation where some dogs are scared of sounds. Sorry but I don't have time to help, but try doing a search on the internet where I'm sure there is some information on what I've just mentioned including where you can obtain them from.

[Zenith]

Thanks Eddy - I will see how he goes this week with getting him used to the clicker, otherwise an alternative might be the way to go.