Barf And Portion Size

[cactus]

Kiki has been on the BARF diet now for about a month. Before that she was on a weight reduction diet, and got 1 cup of kibble am and another pm. When she got frames/bones etc then the kibble was reduced.

Now she gets 1 cup of barf am and another cup pm, or 2 turkey necks/a frame etc instead.

She is GAINING weight!!!! She is becoming a fat little pig and I'm seriusly considering switching her to a calorie controled super premium kibble instead.

Her ideal weight is about 30kg, a fortnight ago she was 34.5 and she is fatter than that now!

Even on Billinghurst's site I couldn't see any recommendation on serving size.

With Kibble I am told you give 1% of what you want their weight to be- so if I want Kiki to slim down to 30kg then I should give her 150grams twice a day.

What do you think???

Ugh.. I never thought I'd have a FAT dog! She started gaining weight when I got injured and couldn't take her out, then she had surgery and couldn't exercise. Its all on her tummy and round her neck. Not a good look and very uncomfortable for her. Plus she doesn't have much energy any more. :rolleyes:

[Bonniebank]

Hi Cactus,

I had a Sheltie years ago that needed to lose weight. I got really good results with Hills Science Diet (dry and canned).

They have one formula for weight reduction (think it's called r/d) and one for weight maintenance once they get to optimum weight (think it's called w/d).

I think you can only get from vets.

Another 2 methods I've heard of but haven't tried are:

1. Substitute some of their normal meal with either grated raw carrot or pumpkin.

2. Simply cut back normal meal by 10% every few weeks or so.

I'm sure there'll be other suggestions on here.

Good luck.

"Have you called Jenny yet?" :rolleyes:

[cactus]

"Have you called Jenny yet?" 

Another 2 methods I've heard of but haven't tried are:

1.  Substitute some of their normal meal with either grated raw carrot or pumpkin.

2.  Simply cut back normal meal by 10% every few weeks or so.

What worries me about this approach is the risk of causing her to become malnourished. I already give her more pulverised veges in her mix than what zara gets, and my mum thinks I'm starving her to death because her corgi gets the same amount of food I give her, and his ideal weight is 15kg! :rolleyes:

I probably will go the SP kibble way- although if it works there'll be no going back to BARF. She's 6 years old and can do without all the weight being piled on and then dieting to reduce it. Zara seems to be maintaining her weight well, and she usually has at least half as much again to eat as Kiki (zara is 37.5kg and at optimal weight).

I just can't believe Billinghurst didn't come up with a formula for working out how much to feed? There must be one, surely!

[Bonniebank]

Might be worth getting checked out (blood test) make sure nothing else going on there? :rolleyes:

[Bonniebank]

p.s.

Look up on the net. There are some websites that disagree with BARF (Bones and Raw Food) diet. All makes interesting reading. :rolleyes:

[cactus]

She had blood work done when she had her operation- she is in the best of health- except she's FAT (I forgot to mention that from time to time the little fatty was supplementing her diet with super premium cat kibble!!) :rolleyes:

[noisymina]

OK - here goes -

My 30kg Dobe gets, as a maintence, average diet - approx 2/3 cup veg mix (which I make myself with various additives) and one slice of vegemite toast each morning.

At night, she gets approx 500g meaty bones. Sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on weight, appetite and activity level.

She's been hovering around that weight ever since we got her 2 1/2 years ago. She's now 6 1/2.

If she takes off and starts to bury her BARF, she's had enough and I reduce for a few days.

She's had no kibble at all since starting BARF shortly after we got her. Has plenty of energy.

Maybe thyroid check should be considerd if dog is lethargic and overweight and a reduction in calories is not helping. (As suggested on another thread recently).

:rolleyes:

[Hazz]

Your correct 150gm twice daily (of barf pattie or 150 patty to 150 rmbs) - for a directed weight of 30kg but Dr B also says for simple obesity to dilute the patties with low glycemic vegetable pulp from your juicer.

[poodlefan]

Billlinghurst DID come up with a formula.. here it is on the BARFWORLD website:

How much should I feed my adult dog?

Adult dogs can be fed between 2-3% of the their body weight. We recommend starting with 1/2 pound of food per 25 lbs of body weight daily and make adjustments according to your dog's age and activity. Remember that a healthy dog is not overweight.

Any feeding formula is a guide only - dogs metabolisms, age and exercise regimes all affect how much food they need. Its never as easy as feed X cups of anything a day.

She started gaining weight when I got injured and couldn't take her out, then she had surgery and couldn't exercise. Its all on her tummy and round her neck

I'd suggest if you didn't reduce her food intake to account for the lack of exercise that is the reason for the weight gain, not the type of diet she is given.

The easiest way to know how much to feed a dog is to FEEL the dog.. .no ribs easily felt - feed less... ribs a bit too prominent or backbone becoming prominant feed more.

Weight of food tells you nothing about its calorie content. If you are feeding a lot of fatty bones, then reduce the fat on them - perhaps change to a leaner meat.

If your dog is an adult there is no requirement to feed her twice a day. I'd cut out one of the feeds (regardless of whether you feed BARF or kibble) and reduce her weight and then increase the one feed until she is maintaining her ideal weight.

BARF does not put weight on a dog - how much you feed it does. Same goes for kibble. Your dog is simply being fed too much for the amount of exercise she does.

Edited February 1, 2006 by poodlefan

[tramissa]

Some dogs need more food for body weight, some need less. *shrug*. It's just like people. Some people can eat a 3 course meal every night and not put on weight and others need to just eat a salad.

If you reduce her food intake, you're not going to starve her. If she's maintaining weight and looking good, then she's getting what she needs.

If she's putting on weight, you're overfeeding her.

My girl is only meant to get 1/2 a barf patty a day. She lost weight on that so now she gets 1/2 patty + 2 - 3 chicken necks or a chicken wing per day (so essentially double the food recommended). But she is maintaining a nice weight, her teeth are great, her breath is good, her coat is shiny and healthy and she has energy - plus she can now jump and play whereas before she couldn't (old dog syndrome).

If I was feeding her not on patties, she'd get 1/2 cup veggie mix 2 times a week (mixed with tinned sardines and yoghurt) and 2 chicken wings/6 necks/1/2 chicken frame or similar amount of other meat every other day.

[patch]

Cactus are you buying the patties or making your own?

I buy the patties now (cause I got sick of pulping veges!!) and there are feeding guides on the packets.

Also as Poodlefan said, there is info on the website and also in the BARF books - he talks plenty about how to work out how much to feed. Having said that, I didn't worry too much about trying to work out percentages of body weights and all that stuff - I just go by how my dogs look and adjust their amounts accordingly.

Good luck :D

[Purple Julie]

I'd reduce the amount you are feeding your dog. I have a 30kg GSD who eats a raw diet and she gets approx. 600g of food a day and this maintains her weight as it is. I based this on giving 2% of the bodyweight as food.

[cactus]

Poodlefan wrote:

Billlinghurst DID come up with a formula.. here it is on the BARFWORLD website:

Oh thanks poodlefan, I swear I *did* look! ;)

I'd suggest if you didn't reduce her food intake to account for the lack of exercise that is the reason for the weight gain, not the type of diet she is given.

I did reduce the quantity of food I gave her, then more recently changed the food itself. She gained some weight initially- and this was at a time when she got just one meal a day.

She has gained a lot of weight since *returning* to her usual activity level- which is what I dont understand. I was told two meals a day would be better than one for keeping weight down. I'm reluctant to reduce her food much further- especially since a good deal of the weight in BARF wouls be water.

Weight of food tells you nothing about its calorie content.  If  you are feeding a lot of fatty bones, then reduce the fat on them - perhaps change to a leaner meat.

The only bones I give her are turkey and chicken necks and frames, and only every now and again wings (because I believe they are fattier than the others?). I wonder though at the fat content of the chicken pet mince- maybe that is fattier at some butchers than others? Half the mince I give them is premium beef mince.

I'm guessing that 2 cups a day would amount to 500grams a day of BARF? I dont have a scale :p If I want her to be 30kg them presumably feeding her 600 grams would be appropriate, so given that she is over 34 kg and getting less than that but still gaining.... Perhaps I'll try 1 cup in the morning and 1/2 cup in the evening, and see how that goes. I dont want to leave her ravenous (and being a ridgie she is always under the impression that I am starving her to death! lol) and she's not going to die if the weight takes a while longer to come off.

[cactus]

Cactus are you buying the patties or making your own?

I make my own BARF- laborious I know, but I make the vege mix in bulk and freeze it in portions, them thaw and mix it with the meat as needed.

Also as Poodlefan said, there is info on the website

I really did look!!! I'll have to go see how I missed it, I *was* tired, but still.... ;)

Good luck  :p

Yeah, I'll be needing that ;)

[noisymina]

I was wondering about the chicken pet mince, too. Now I get the frames instead.

Fortunately, a frame comes in at about 400-500 grams - one meal for my dobe - and don't cost any more, takes longer for her to eat - and there are no calories in the bones. ;) Some times there is some fatty stuff included, but that could be pulled off before feeding if necessary.

Yep - a cup, roughly speaking, would be about 250 grams.

There would be a fair bit of water in BARF, but most of that contains vits/minerals etc.

However, commercial mixes contain a lot of calories in the form of cereals and additives which are not necessarily adding to the dogs well-being!

Before feeding BARF, the Dobe was getting 400g Pal and one Cup dry kibble a day - 650g.

That is, by weight, a little more than she needs in BARF, which weighs in at about 600g max. Including the "water".

How would you go with 1/2 cup BARF in the moring (no extra meat added) and a frame at night?

Edited February 2, 2006 by noisymina

[cactus]

How would you go with 1/2 cup BARF in the moring (no extra meat added) and a frame at night?

Noisymina, what do you mean by 'no extra meat added'?

The mix that I'm giving Kiki at the moment is 1/3 fruit and vege mix, 1/3 chicken pet mince and 1/3 premium beef mince. Should I replace the pet mince with premium mince, or do you mean increase the vege mix? ;) ... or something else entirely... :p

[tramissa]

Give 1/2 cup just veggie mix in the morning and 1 frame at night.

I know Pixie's 35 - 40kg rottie x golden gets 2 - 3 frames per day or 2 cups of veggie mix with sardines and yoghurt...

And yes, she is porky

Edited February 2, 2006 by tramissa

[noisymina]

;) Not being very concise, am I?

Noisymina, what do you mean by 'no extra meat added'?

I mean thatt I leave the meat out of the BARF mix altogether - with the exception of, perhaps, a bit of ground liver or kidney, or some sardines - I usually put a little of both in with the veges.

The meat component as then fed in the other meal - eg chicken frame, lamb ribs (the leaner ones), Chicken thighs or necks, turkey necks etc. Sometimes, I add a little roo or beef to, say, a chicken thigh if it does not seem quite enough.

[TiffanyAmber]

Just cut the quantity down. It wont hurt them. They will look hungry for awhile, believe me, I know. And you will swear you are starving them.

With my dogs I give them 100gms. If I think they are going to put on weight it goes down to 800gms. Then back up to 100gms. No Jim, Tiffany doesnt get this amount.

You should see what I feed my overweight Chihuahua. And slowly but slowly she is losing weight.

Yes Jim, she is getting there. She is not pleading with me, so thats a good sign. ;)