Dog_Horse_Girl Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 (edited) What does the breeder recommend??generally you follow there diet sheet or discuss an laternative that is breed suitable. "natural Balance" locally has been around for a long time & mainly in asia highly sort after in Japan,i now the people personally As I said, the Dick van Patten's Natural Balance Organic Formula is NOT the same as the Australian-manufactured "Natural Balance". The Aussie-made one is no better than many other "cheap" kibbles available here...avoid them in preference for the USA-manufactured genuinely super-premium kibbles. Or choose a cheaper food and be forced into feeding a lot more product and seeing the vet more often that you'd care to. JMHO. BTW - some breeders' recommendations are appalling...HSD, Iams/Eukanuba, Bonnie Working Dog, Corprice..to name but a few poor quality choices often spouted as "excellent" by breeders. edited for typos... Edited January 22, 2006 by lillysmum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 BTW - some breeders' recommendations are appalling...HSD, Iams/Eukanuba, Bonnie Working Dog, Corprice..to name but a few poor quality choices often spouted as "excellent" by breeders. Must say that I agree with lillysmum, I personally wouldn't feed either Bonnie, Supercoat or Coprice, way too high in cereal content for me, but unfortunately most of the cheaper kibbles always are as grain offcuts are ideal as a cheap filler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 As I said, the Dick van Patten's Natural Balance Organic Formula is NOT the same as the Australian-manufactured "Natural Balance". The Aussie-made one is no better than many other "cheap" kibbles available here...avoid them in preference for the USA-manufactured genuinely super-premium kibbles. Or choose a cheaper food and be forced into feeding a lot more product and seeing the vet more often that you'd care to. JMHO. BTW - some breeders' recommendations are appalling...HSD, Iams/Eukanuba, Bonnie Working Dog, Corprice..to name but a few poor quality choices often spouted as "excellent" by breeders. edited for typos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 IAMS, Science Diet, Eukanuba and Proplan all have corn meal, Ground or Whole Grain Sorghum. Whole Grain Wheat, Chicken-By Product Meal and Chicken Fat (preserved with Citric Acid, a chemical preservative.) Benefits of Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy: Optimized protein and fat levels for healthy, balanced growth Balanced calcium and phosphorus for strong bones Glucosamine and chondroitin for healthy joints Natural ingredients with vitamins and minerals No chicken by-products Controlled-Growth Formula® Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy isn't like the typical dog food. It's special. It combines naturally great taste with the highest nutritional benefits. That's because Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy is scientifically formulated using 70 years of Nutro experience combined with research from veterinarians and nutritionists. And it's manufactured with state-of-the-art technology using only the finest ingredients for premium nutrition and superior performance. Controlled Growth Formula Large and giant breeds are prone to rapid growth, which could lead to hip and joint problems. Our Controlled-Growth Formula provides a unique blend of key nutrients needed to help maintain healthy, balanced growth-from weaning to maturity. Smallest Stool Volume High digestibility means small, compact stools for easy cleanup. That means more nutrition for your dog and less backyard cleanup. Balanced Growth Research shows that large breed puppies have a reduced requirement for calcium and phosphorus for healthy balanced growth of the skeletal system. Excess weight can cause bone and joint problems in large breed puppies. Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy provides the ideal calcium-phosphorus ratio and the optimum protein and fat levels. Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy provides L-Carnitine which helps improve metabolism for lean muscle growth. Healthy Skin & Shiny Coat With high levels of linoleic acid, combined with other key vitamins and mineral, we guarantee your dog will have healthy skin and a shiny coat. Great Taste We guarantee the great taste of Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy so you can be sure your dog will eat enough to meet its nutritional requirements. Natural Ingredients With natural ingredients plus vitamins and minerals, Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy contains no chicken by-products, which can be harder for your puppy to digest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog_Horse_Girl Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 As I said, the Dick van Patten's Natural Balance Organic Formula is NOT the same as the Australian-manufactured "Natural Balance". The Aussie-made one is no better than many other "cheap" kibbles available here...avoid them in preference for the USA-manufactured genuinely super-premium kibbles. Or choose a cheaper food and be forced into feeding a lot more product and seeing the vet more often that you'd care to. JMHO. BTW - some breeders' recommendations are appalling...HSD, Iams/Eukanuba, Bonnie Working Dog, Corprice..to name but a few poor quality choices often spouted as "excellent" by breeders. edited for typos... So which dog food manufacturer do you work for? I've forgotten which brand it is you represent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Aaahh i do do a little bit of work for one of the brands. But even when working i will offer to help with all or any of the foods available. But i will refer people to Eagle Pack, Royal Canin, Euk, Proplan, Nutrience and to be fair i add Hills Science Diet to the list. (I personally don't like Hills, not sure why, but i know many dogs that do great on it so ) Along with this i will add BARF to the mix but i tell them to google that one and check it out. Most places i promo at don't sell/have BARF info. But my general spiel being "Hi, can i be of help? I promise not to just push my brand, i can help with any of those we have here" And i must be doing something right as i have had two other dog food companies ask me to work for them along with another dog product company asking as well. Not that it has anything to do with this thread as i haven't pushed any particular kibble...and all i've done is just at your 'use this else your feeding your dog crap' approach "The best food for your dog is what your dog does best on" ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Thought i'd better reply to the thread in general In regards to kibble, i've heard good things about Nutro but i haven't seen it up my way so can't say much other then to say i've heard it's really good. Others i'd suggest are Royal Canin, Eagle Pack, ProPlan, Advance (oops forgot to add that to my previous post, i knew i forgot one!), Euk, Nutrience and Hills. If you can get the WA made Natural Balance it's well worth looking at as well. Get samples etc see which ones your dog takes to and go from there, depending on what you are using you will soon see a difference. If you think the dog can look 'better' after a few weeks then try a different brand until you find the one your dog does best on. Different dogs can take to different foods differently...lol, some might look stunning on Kates Kibble where as others will do better on Dougs Dry for example *Brand names changed to protect the innocent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Definately agree with KitKat in that, the best food for your dog is the stuff it does best on. This can be the stuff that costs $80 for 15kg, the stuff that costs $35 for 18kg or even $10 for 20kg. I feed BARF so not much call for dry commercial foods, but I use SuperCoat when I have to. It seems to cause large stools and does contain useless grains, but I feel it is good value for money. This is what rescues get fed around here too. I don't really feed enough commercial food to give a subjective opinion on what seems to be best for the majority of dogs but there is certainly no harm in trying a few in your search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog_Horse_Girl Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 KK, the OP was asking about the "best kibble" so I've provided information relative to that question. IMO the three kibbles I list are the "best kibbles" and the rest are, IMO, not worth feeding to any dog. As always, it's MY opinion on what makes the best kibble...I happen to have done extensive research on canine nutrition and on how to understand the packaging on the bag...and I've come to the conclusion that a dog fed on an average kibble just isn't going to be as healthy over its lifespan as one fed on a super-premium diet and/or a raw, whole foods diet. I liken this to human nutrition: how many ppl eat only (say) McDonalds foods? How healthy are these ppl assuming they exist? And compare that to someone who eats a balanced diet of whole foods with the occasional indulgence? If my advice is offensive to you, then don't read it any more! You know my stance, or should by now...my bias is to raw, whole foods and failing that, the three USA-manufactured kibbles that I recommend. I'm not pushing anyone into anything either, I'm simply offering my advice/opinion as sought. I would no sooner feed certain dog foods to my dogs than I would to myself. Why? Because they are very poor in terms of the nutrition they offer and the quality of ingredients they use. Why feed a crap food when you can feed a superior food? B/c you don't know any different...or you don't care to find out about a better food. I have no problem with you disagreeing with my opinion, but perhaps you could add the disclaimer that tells everyone which dog food manufacturer employs you... I also have to say that it's a false economy to buy a cheaper (purchase price) kibble, b/c in the long term you are feeding a whole lot more of the cheaper one compared to the better foods. And your dog isn't going to do as well either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 (edited) I have no problem with you disagreeing with my opinion, but perhaps you could add the disclaimer that tells everyone which dog food manufacturer employs you... Why should the company that employs me for a handful of hours each month have anything to do with my opinion? especially since i son't go around saying "Only feed this as the rest is crap" which is something along the lines of what you post. I am employed by one company...yet i advocate at least 8 other foods including Barf? Why should that require me to have a disclaimer for each of my posts? I stand by the comment of "The best food for your dog is the food your dog does best on" I don't care which type of food a person uses...as long as it's the best for the said dog. But at least i don't go around saying this is crap you should only use this instead. The foods i recommend (all what..eight or nine of them?) are in general all readily available. Gee shold i also list where i work full time and do obedience training as well? just in case it should influence my posts? I also have to say that it's a false economy to buy a cheaper (purchase price) kibble, b/c in the long term you are feeding a whole lot more of the cheaper one compared to the better foods. I agree, which is one of the reasons why i support what is recognised in Aus as super premium kibbles or barf/raw. I have fed my dogs supercoat in the past and the difference between the output from that and my current dogs output now is very noticible...doing the poo patrol is much less of a chore, not to mention over and done with quicker. And your dog isn't going to do as well either. Which is why i stand by the comment "The best food you can feed your dog is what your dog does best on" Be that Barf, kibble or cardboard Edited January 22, 2006 by KitKat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norskgra Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I totally agree that "The best food you can feed your dog is what your dog does best on". I have tried most of the super premium and premium and supermarket brands. I feed one of my girls a modified BARF and the rest are fed dry. After trying Nutro, I intend swapping to that as soon as I have finished the dry I currently have. All my dogs love it, including my finicky girl. I will still keep feeding her her special diet but will feed her Nutro at times. After trying my dogs on some sample packets of Nutro, I could notice a differenc in them. It may not be the best for all dogs but it is the one that seemed to work for mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I agree with Kit Kat. The reason I am posting about Nutro is that I have been feeding it to mine for many a year and its a product which is not widely available in Aussie (only QLD and NSW at this time). It is a product however that I believe should be given just as much standing as the other premium pet foods. Feeding is very much trial and error and it is never a guarantee that a particular dog will take to a particular brand, but we as their parents must give them the benefit of the doubt and try until we find what best suits them. If that means trying everything on the market (provided we can get samples) then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I've not actually seen Nutro in Brissie yet...is it a matter of ordering it in? or is it an 'on the shelf' item? (bigger petstores etc i'm assuming) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Kit Kat I've emailed you! For anyone else interested my website is specialfiendsdogcare.com.au Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog_Horse_Girl Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I have also heard only great things of Nutro, but as it's not available anywhere but NSW and QLD, it's not an easy product to recommend...perhaps as its distribution grows/expands, I'll be able to recommend it too. Please try to remember that Australians consider many inferior kibbles to be "super premium" such as Nutrience, but ppl in North America do not b/c they have much better kibbles available including the three I recommend when asked. I guess marketing has a lot to answer for...it wasn't that long ago (and sadly this is still the case in many retailers) that something like Iams was touted as "super premium" and something like supercoat was touted as "premium" nutrition. Anyone that is able to understand the nutrition information on these foods is bound to conclude otherwise unless they consider feedlot farmed livestock as being "the best you can get"...organic free-range livestock is far superior from a nutritional perspective, not to mention an ecological or humane perspective. But, hey, if the nutritionally-inferior stuff works for your dog, then why switch to something of a higher quality? BTW - I know I say this often, but only b/c it's true and it should revolt every dog owner in this country - horse meat and by-product is usually the primary protein source in poorer dog foods both canned and kibble. I can't understand how that is acceptable...it's not really suited to the canine's needs but it's cheap and readily available (remember the "wild horse problem"?). This is an issue that needs addressing, and IMO the best way to do that is to stop buying the products that profit from horse culling (and unwanted domestic horses also end up in dog food). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 In regards to horse meat being used...well...i know a few people who due to where they live have access to horse meat/bones which they give to their dogs, i believe hooves were a fav. But anyway...i'd be wary of food that say "Meat/meat by products" as their description of the meat content. But most don't (i think only the el cheapo do due to labeling requirements or some such)...most of what we/i consider super premium are chicken based, with others being beef based, turkey based, lamb based or salmon based. In France horse i believe is considered one of the other red meats, but it's still not used in their Royal Canin, unless it comes under the animal fats perhaps? poultry and beef are listed, but that's only because i read if off a bag i got last time it was on special and have stashed away. We are slowly getting more and more foods available here as they make the trip across the water. But the pet food industry is still growing here, for all that it has basically exploded in the last few years. I don't think we'll ever have as big a range of pet stuff as the US has but that's to be expected. But i consider the range we have to be damn good and if we get better foods becoming readily available...then people will have more to choose from in regards to finding what their dogs do best on I've personally never known Supercoat to be considered a 'premium' dog food, it's always been a 'good' food. And as to Iams...i've always considered it as a 'premium' with Euk as the super premium version of it. But perhaps my memory isn't going back far enough..thinking roughly 10 years. I know several dogs fed exclusively on Nutrience...and they look stunning, they've not had a problem at all...and i believe it's all organic ingredients. Hell...i don't even eat organic foods. But, hey, if the nutritionally-inferior stuff works for your dog, then why switch to something of a higher quality? My older dog grew up on Pal meaty bites and chum kibble...he always looked stunning, lovely soft shiney coat, healthy teeth, no stinky breath, no visits to the vets except for vaccinations and complications in old age. And if you want to tell me his lesions on the brain and extreme anxiety/panic attacks at 9 1/2 yrs old were due to what he was fed then...go ahead. He did get hotspots but they were due to occasional flea bites or when he scratched himself etc escaping, digging etc etc. I upgraded him to a higher level kibble and it didn't make any difference at all so i put him onto Supercoat on which he did nicely on until his last days. Like i said and will continue saying...the best food for your dog is what they do best on...no matter the packaging or lack of it. As to availablility...Eagle Pack isn't overly available, it isn't readily stocked in QLD and i only know three places that have it on the shelf...in general i believe it has to be ordered in. Mind you...i don't know every pet store, produce store, supplier in QLD either And before you leap to the conclusion...i don't support horses being culled and made into dog food. But i can't agree with your comment of "it's not really suited to the canine's needs" That's like saying beef or roo isn't "really suited to the canine's needs" ? Or have i misunderstood what you meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eridorsmooths Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 (edited) KK, the OP was asking about the "best kibble" so I've provided information relative to that question. IMO the three kibbles I list are the "best kibbles" and the rest are, IMO, not worth feeding to any dog. Well I wish I had the time to show you the other night my 2 puppies I have here, Mum was fed Bonnie puppy as well as a variety of minces, vegies, pasta, rice etc, whelped 10 healthy large puppies, puppies raised on Bonnie puppy, I have recently changed foods but I am not saying what it is because I dont want other people to bag it, I feed what my dogs do best on, they never get just plain dry food always get things added. I have also seen dogs raised on el cheapo homebrand kibble and have beautiful glossy coats, healthy in every way shape or form. Ok if I wanted to feed just dry I may look at the more premium foods, but with 3 kids, 4 dogs I cant afford to spend $100 on a bag of kibble when I feed my guys assorted other excellent ingredients Edited to highlight the main part I wanted to quote Edited January 22, 2006 by eridorsmooths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashli Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 My girls get supercoat....they're at their optimum weight, coats nice, shiny and soft. IMO Supercoat is a super premium brand, my girls thrive on it, and that's all that matters. Keeping weight on my 2 is extremely hard, and I had tried everything from Home Brand right up to Hills ... then tried Supercoat and the change was unbelievable. Ashli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Re Horse Meat I had a dog who had a skin problem and part of the process of emilination was to try him on a protein which he hadn't had before. One was venison, but too expensive, SO we went to hrose meat, and cooking that up was the most unpleasant experience I have ever had. Notwithstanding that I at that time owned a purebred Arab, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog_Horse_Girl Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 (edited) Yep, cooking horse meat and horse by-products is a disgusting thing...ask anyone that lives near the Bush's plant in Rouse Hill (Sydney). They slaughter horses there at least twice a week...unless it's been shut down - I am talking about the last time I lived in Sydney, which we left in 1997, so things could have changed. Horses do not deserve to go into dog food...but they do in this country. I know that hoof trimmings are given to dogs...but you don't actually KILL the horse to trim its hooves now, do you? Again, factory farmed animals are inferior to those raised organically...and the foods I recommend use organic ingredients. If ppl have no issues with factory farmed ingredients, then products that use these ingredients would be fine. I happen to make a different choice and I recommend a different choice based upon my knowledge of the differences between such ingredients. If factory farmed doesn't matter to you, then choose a product that uses factory farmed animals and grains/cereals. IMO organic is of a higher nutritional value (for my consumption as well as my dogs!) but not everyone is willing or able to pay the slightly higher price to buy such foods. There is nothing wrong with that...but my opinion is that I would never feed those things to my dogs...surely I'm entitled to my opinion and to state it as such? Or perhaps I should bow out of any nutritional debate b/c my view are perhaps "too extreme"? :rolleyes: I thought the OP was asking for advice or information about the "best kibble". typo... Edited January 22, 2006 by lillysmum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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