High Level Training With Weak Nerved Dog

[Lablover]

Jesomil,

I have been worried. Nothing new about that, LOL.

Do not give up with your Kelpie. They are lovely dogs. We are only gauging our opinions on from what we think is happening.

Maybe you should have some private lessons with a highly regarded trainer who has competed successfully at obedience.

[herding_guy]

K9: Your voice alone can be one of your greatest assets or biggest liabilities, & nerves are easily picked in the voice...

You can limit drive, elevate drive & build confidence with your voice if you use it right....

K9 This is so true, my voice is everything when training and proofing on stock. My second tool is my body posture / positioning.

A weak nerved kelpie - how unusual

I have two of these - One is a 18month old female who used to run away from sheep and ducks she is now working cattle confidently and winning trials.

Another a 5 year old who performs with confidence in front of crowds. Was crowned the Casterton Australian Kelpie Idol for which he sat for photos by the press, pats from strange people and kids, strange people calling him by name and he didn't even flinch.

It can be done - prey drive was the key along with patience, perserverence, strong leadership. understanding and reading the dog well.

Bring the little guy out to my place we'll get him going and have lots of fun as well.

[jesomil]

Hi Lablover,

Nothing to worry about. I think i have come across wrong with my topic.

My boy is perfect in my eyes. He is confident in alot of sitations and is excellent with stock. You could shoot a gun over his head when he is working sheep and he wouldnt flinch. We plan to start trialling him this year. I bought him purely as a yard dog and that is all i ever want from him.

The other stuff is when we have been teaching harder exercises for fun. I dont plan to obedience trial him but was wondering from the perspective of whether people have had experience training dogs like that for obedience because i reckon it would be hard work and frustrating at times.

The only issue we have is when teaching specific obedience bits and pieces or difficult tricks he can shut down alot easier than my other dogs. I am not talking sit, down, come, stay etc, I am talking about teaching stand so he is perfectly in line with my leg, or teaching crawl or reverse leg weaving etc. He will only take on so much then find the pressure too much.

I guess the key with these types of dogs is to go slow, keep sessions short, sessions happy and lots of fun and be very aware of your body language and voice.

If my young fella never excelled at anyting other then snuggling on the couch, i would still adore him just like i do now.

[Steve K9Pro]

LL

I also remember at a retrieving trial, where one of the dogs lost focus before being sent for a hidden bird across a river. I paused and set my brain into overdrive. What can I do, what can I do? I whispered hey hey hey, a known trigger, the dog lined the blind.

K9: awesome isnt it? lol...

HG:

K9 This is so true, my voice is everything when training and proofing on stock. My second tool is my body posture / positioning.

K9: We all need to be aware that these are the most important tools, over & above all others...

[Hedds]

If my young fella never excelled at anyting other then snuggling on the couch, i would still adore him just like i do now.

What a lovely comment.

My smooth collie x is soft and will shut down like yours. I have gone backwards a few times getting excited and trying to get something too perfect, and he's paniced and I've lost what I had to start with.

All the advice above is great. Slowly slowly, count to 10 :rolleyes: , try again with a happy voice and relaxed body, while mentally going

I must say though, the bond I have with this dog, and the one he has with me, surprises me every day. He just tries so hard to please me. I often wonder if its his 'weakness' that makes him like that? Any ideas?

[Lablover]

LL

I also remember at a retrieving trial, where one of the dogs lost focus before being sent for a hidden bird across a river. I paused and set my brain into overdrive. What can I do, what can I do? I whispered hey hey hey, a known trigger, the dog lined the blind.

K9: awesome isnt it? lol...

Damm right!!!. Lets talk about triggers now, please. Might start a new topic tomorrow.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: ok lets lol...

Start a thread & see what the new thread "triggers"..

[Lablover]

K9: ok lets lol...

Start a thread & see what the new thread "triggers"..

Damm, LOL, I got so excited talking about this subject, I made my computer jam.

K9 force, you not going to confuse me again with all the fancy lingo are you? Actually you do not do such things, thank heavens!!!

For example, where should I start, my dogs know it is training time when I put my whistle around my neck, or when I put a white jacket on, they are racing to the door. Actually they try to start drive initialisation by prompting me to the door or 4 wheel drive, LOL.

[Steve K9Pro]

L:

Damm, LOL, I got so excited talking about this subject, I made my computer jam.

K9: try pressing the top right button & it will marmalade....

L:

For example, where should I start, my dogs know it is training time when I put my whistle around my neck, or when I put a white jacket on, they are racing to the door. Actually they try to start drive initialisation by prompting me to the door or 4 wheel drive, LOL.

K9: you said new thread... lol...

[jesomil]

Hi Hedds,

My smooth collie x is soft and will shut down like yours. I have gone backwards a few times getting excited and trying to get something too perfect, and he's paniced and I've lost what I had to start with. 

That is my experience entirely. You say it so well.

I must say, it is hard calmly counting to 10 and then starting over again especially when mentally i am thinking , as you said.

I find the bond different with him too. I guess it is the sensitivness that makes them a bit different. He does try extremely hard to always be doing the right thing and he amazes me constantly with how intune to my emotions he is.

Even though he is frustrating, i wouldnt change him, the little gem. Just lucky i have no big obedience competition desires right now. :rolleyes:

[yogibear]

Having seen first hand the relationship hedds and her dog have its amazing they are a great team and Hedds knows when to slow down and shut up and let the dog have his space rather than trying to rev him which often shuts a softy down.

If you go slowly and go back and forth rather than full steam ahead you'll b amazed at what you can accomplish

yb

[CaseyKay]

My shy dog (in my avatar) turns 4 this year. She has come a very long way and I used to have goals: I would enter her in a show a month out as a goal to work towards. I bought her to do obedience and agility with like I do with my older BC who loves both sports.

I have found that the steps I had to take were so small, and sometimes take a step backwards and do something a bit easier until her confidence came back. I can't teach her new things in 5 minutes like my older dog, or my previous dogs. But she has made me think in new ways as well and learn to be creative.

Now she will work beautifully at home and she will work in class if she knows the dogs and people but she doesn't like people she doesn't know walking behind her, which is a big problem in competitive obedience. I still don't think she is ready so we have still not been in the obedience ring.

She has done a few agility shows now and although she got eliminated (refusals) she did do most of the obstacles but if one little thing goes wrong, like knocking a jump or a dog barking suddenly ringside, she will lie down and freeze. BUT it used to be she would not recover from that and now she will still lie down but she will get moving again. So I have learnt to celebrate the progress that she does make.

I think she will continue to compete and get better in agility, and we can work towards clear rounds as a manageable goal, because if she does get scared she can recover and keep going without loosing marks like she would if she had a meltdown in obedience...and we will probably start competing in obedience but no, I don't think she will be doing any winning in obedience. Too many variables at shows that I just can't control. She *can* do the most amazing, beautiful heelwork...I might just have to accept that a judge will never see that

[Akitagal]

you must get food drive (not exchange food for action)

K9, Could you please elaborate on this?? Explain difference and how to tell the difference between having your dog in food drive and exchanging food for action. Could you give me your definaition of food drive?

[Steve K9Pro]

AG:

K9, Could you please elaborate on this?? Explain difference and how to tell the difference between having your dog in food drive and exchanging food for action.

K9: sure, I see a dog in food "drive" when it has "drive", excitement & deperation for the food in a positive way..

Many people simply show the dog the food, ask for the command to be completed & then pay the dog off for the work, I dont.

I teach the dogs to catch the food, from my mouth or thrown from my hand... Then when I ask for the command, the food is dropped just before the dog could possibly succeed & led away from the food without eating, then given another chance, the focus & reponse is much better...

*******

Food drive is more than a learned situation in which the dog knows how to get food with a certain action, its high desire, adrenalin driven & a subconscious reaction to the food (stimuli)

Edited January 29, 2006 by K9 Force