Uncontrollable Urge To Pee. Stops On Vomit

[pampa]

Well It is Tuesday morning here, Tuesday evening there.... I'm waiting for the update Erny, in hoping all is clear or easy to "fix"...

[ReXy]

thinking of u erny and crossing everything for good results and some answers

[tramissa]

How'd it go Erny?

Any news?

[Erny]

I'm sorry for the lateness in posting. I had some friends pay a surprise visit from Queensland and they are staying with me over night (lovely surprise!).

The Vet rang me late this afternoon. Kal's blood tests prove negative for Cushing's/Addison's (ie adrenal and pituitary gland function is normal) and also negative for Lymphocytic Thyroiditis.

We are both at a loss as to the muscle and weight loss Kal is suffering. Also the intolerence to exercise (which seems to be becoming worse as time moves on) as well as heat intolerance. (If anything, when she was well, she was cold intolerant .... loooooved heat.)

The only thing either of us can think of doing is another abdominal ultrasound in a few weeks' time to see if there has been any change in the size of the adrenal gland. If there hasn't been, the Vet suggests that we may be able to discount (at least to the most degree) that the enlarged adrenal gland has any or much bearing on her symptoms. If the size has grown, then we will discuss surgery.

Thank you, everyone, for "listening" with me, and for all your help and suggestions. At the moment, we are at a loss and need to wait out a few more weeks for the ultrasound .... unless we (ie me, the Vet ... and of course, you guys, who have been a wealth of information and help to us) can think of anything else we haven't yet thought of and tested for which might reflect the symptoms she is exhibiting.

I'm kind of happy .... and kind of not - all at the same time, if that makes sense?

[pampa]

I'm kind of happy .... and kind of not - all at the same time, if that makes sense?

Yes I guess the uncertainty of NOT knowing what's wrong is almost as bad as knowing it is something not so nice but treatable... (goodness, I just re-read the gobble I just spat out but can't find any clearer way to express myself tonight )

I maintain that it is still better than finding a very unpleasent, untreatable something...

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to let us know how you are going and have a great time with your interstate visitors

[InspectorRex]

Bummer, still none the wiser for Kal

[dogbesotted]

oh bugger!

[Erny]

oh bugger!

This pretty much sums it up, Dogbesotted!

This morning, Kal was off her food. She had a little go at it. Left it for 10 minutes. Returned. Finished it off, but with none of the gusto she normally shows. Half hour later, she threw it all back up (then ate it again, as dogs do ).

She has been doing this once every month or so.

I will wait for the next few weeks and see how we go with a second adrenal gland check.

[Tassie]

I echo - oh bugger! I guess it's sort of good news - but as you say, gets you no closer to making poor Kal feel better. On the throwing up thing - my rule of thumb is - if they eat it up again, it's less of a worry than if they don't. But it's just as well we love them, isn't it.

Barb

[Cheyenne_Fury]

Oh no. Poor Kal and poor you Erny. You must be beside yourself not being able to find out what is wrong with your girl.

I hope that things look up for Kal and she starts to feel better and that you can get to the bottom of the problems she is having.

My thoughts are with both of you

Anne

[Erny]

Thank you Anne. All I can really say is that I'm doing the most and best I can by Kal, and I now feel I (finally) have a Vet who is working "with" me and is also interested in finding out what is wrong. I feel less "beside myself" than I did when numerous other Vets called me paranoid when I voiced concerns of earlier symptoms.

I have Kal booked for a further ultra sound on 11th April. It seems to be a waiting game at the moment and that's all we can really do. But at least, for the moment, there's a "plan". If the results of the ultrasound suggest that her enlarged adrenal gland is not a party to her present health problems, then I'm not sure where we will go from there. One step at a time, though, is all we can really take. :D

[InspectorRex]

And Kal knows that you have her best interests at heart and loves you for it as you love her

[Erny]

Anne .... I think so too.

[Loraine]

Erny I am so pleased to hear that Kal was negative for Cushing's and Addisons. How frustrating not to know what is wrong with our furbabes. Sounds like you have a good vet on your side

[zoiboy]

Hi Erny,

I have just read your thread and man you must be quite beside yourself by now. Poor Kal seems to be very good about all these tests and such like.

Now I feel prompted to add a reply as I have Ceiolac (now that is not how to spell it but will have to do for now). This is simply put 'gluten intollarant' and the more I read the more I felt

Kal sounds a lot like me. I had my first 'bout' after my first child was born, the major symptoms being weight loss and just plain tired. I to was fobbed off after much testing and told to buy smaller clothes and be happy as most people get fat after childberth. Things kinda got better untill my second child was born and the weight loss by this time was alarming as I was 1 stone under my ideal 'prechildren' weight. I was sent to a dietitishion (ya know them that look like greyhounds and live on green leaves). Not only was she no help she made things worse.

Thu all this the olny things I recall was weight loss and being tired all the time. It was some years later when my mother fell extreamly ill while traveling in Italy that things started to become clear. She was VERY ill by the time they got home and dad did think she was going to die. Anyway she found after many dead end tests that ceoliac is what she had. This led me to have a blood test (these days they have a stool test that is very effective fr people at least)

and yes I have it. Explained all the things that were fobed off years ago as I was a young mother with 2 kids in as many years with no help or support other than my husband.

Just a new idea for you to worry about

Cheers

Linda

[Erny]

Zoiboy. Thank you for your post. The only thing that came up when I put your spelling version of the 'condition' in google, was "ciolac" .... and that doesn't seem to have anything to do with medical condition (well, certainly there was no info there, anyway).

Are you able to find out the correct spelling?

Apart from weight loss and tiredness, were there any other symptoms? (eg muscle wasteage? vomiting?)

What did you end up doing for it?

Thanks for your interest and your input.

Loraine - thanks for your thoughts too. My Vet's either good, or he's scared of me!

[zoiboy]

Hi Erny,

The correct spelling is 'Coeliac' (i spent a while last night looking for the mag) and it is diet control only. It can be assioated with other things as well but does respond very well to diet

controll. Now mussel wasteage and vomiting can be a big part of it but this depends on the individual, my biggest problem these days if 'I fall off the wagon' is stomack pain, the runs

or constipation (again depends).

In short is is an alardgy to gulten so any grains aside from rice and corn is going to make you feel bad.

Cheers

Linda

[Muttaburra]

Hi Erny, have been checking into this thread regularly to see how your going with Kal. Sorry to hear that there has been no identification of the malady.

Zoiboys posts are very interesting. I'm not sure what you feed Kal but all sorts of cereal is thrown in to many prepartations these days, as well as skim milk (if lactose intolerance is also involved). Either that or there could be bowel inflammation for other reasons.

My latest thoughts were along the lines of Diabeties, but I am guessing this had been tested for already.

The liver and gall bladder - (do dogs have a gall bladder?) again, I am thinking the ultrasound would pick up anything unusual there. Has the alimentary canal been checked as well (stool samples etc)?

You might be able to locate an area involved by placing your hand flat, palm down, over various parts of her body, feeling for a noticable increase in temperature over one of the organs or the gut.

Also, acupuncture might be worth looking into. If it cannot provide a cure, it can reduce nausea and stimulate various organs etc.

Hope something good comes along to help you and Kal soon.

[Erny]

Zoiboys posts are very interesting. I'm not sure what you feed Kal but all sorts of cereal is thrown in to many prepartations these days, as well as skim milk (if lactose intolerance is also involved). Either that or there could be bowel inflammation for other reasons.

Kal is 'stuck' on a diet that I have previously fed to her (from time to time) when she would exhibit symptoms of IBS. It comprises all fresh food:

1. Raw human grade roo mince.
   
2. Grated vegetables, including spinach; lettuce (sometimes); silverbeet; carrots; pumpkin and parsley. There is a greater quantity 'green' leaf vegetable in comparison to the pumpkin and carrot. The least amount of vegetable (by comparison) is carrot.
   
3. Rolled oats - soaked for 12-24 hours before feeding in equal quantity water.
   
4. I give her a beef leg (marrow) bone once every one to two weeks. She can't have too many of these as her stomach doesn't cope much with the fat or marrow. I only do this for her teeth (and because it gives her joy) and these are the only types of bone I can give her. I have the ends sawn off (it was the knuckle end of one of these that she cracked off and swallowed and started the whole saga off with!)
   

I tried to get Kal off this IBS diet and back to her normal diet (which was Vet's All Natural complete mix, coupled with fresh roo mince, and which she did, up until approximately last October, do very well on) but found that this time, she broke out into 'hot spots' along either side of her spine. Previously, when I have been able to return her to her normal VAN diet, there was not a great deal of change to her weight (even though I was feeding her double the amount I normally would ... prior to her ill health, I had to feed less than recommended on the packet and even then I was always watching and adjusting to counter her getting a bit too pudgey. I wish I had that problem now. )

I have experimented (over the last 6-12 months) with things I used to add to her meal (eg eggs) but found that set off IBS again. The chiro recommended I take her off kelp additive. I used to add Vet's All Natural Omega Blend Oil, but took her off this when she started too many/regular bouts of vomiting ... just experimental.

I plan to try her on a barf diet (although she can't have the bones they would suggest) and although I expect there would be more additives (vits & mins), I'm not sure how far off her present diet is to one of barf.

I thought I would retain her on her present diet whilst we are investigating what's going on.

Approximately 12 months ago, Kal had an endoscopy which checked out her oesophegus, stomach and the beginning of the intestine (large intestine?). This was because I was concerned that there was residual scarring as a result of the bone having been stuck in the lower end of the oesophegus. The endoscopy showed lovely, healthy pink lining (oesophegus and stomach and beginning of intestine). (We concluded the only damage to the oesophegus is nerve damage, preventing the affected area from functioning properly. This is why all Kal's food is soupified and why I cannot give her anything chunky to eat - it gets stuck there and causes pain.) Admittedly, we didn't check from the 'other' end at the time, however a check of that was done (albeit, before she began these current symptoms) about 3 years ago (irrelevant now, I know) because she was still showing signs of abnormal stools after a bout of giardia and I was concerned there might have been something else wrong. (All this does make me sound like a real worrier, doesn't it? :D ) Back then, everything showed up clear too, but that's not to say it is now.

Abs:

My latest thoughts were along the lines of Diabeties, but I am guessing this had been tested for already.

Yes - the Vet told me the bloods from earlier this year ruled out diabeties.

Abs:

The liver and gall bladder - (do dogs have a gall bladder?) again, I am thinking the ultrasound would pick up anything unusual there. Has the alimentary canal been checked as well (stool samples etc)?

Because of a 'slightly increased level' in something or other (I've forgotten what) in a normal blood work up, the Vet ran specific and special blood tests on the liver earlier this year. This came up as 'normal'. The radiology person who did the ultrasound pointed out Kal's gall bladder on the ultrasound - I don't think there was anything abnormal there.

Stool sample was given in tests run earlier this year. Vet reported "nothing unusual". In fact he commented on what a nice, normal stool it was. (I remarked we all need to get a life . )

Abs:

You might be able to locate an area involved by placing your hand flat, palm down, over various parts of her body, feeling for a noticable increase in temperature over one of the organs or the gut.

I've done this, and I must admit, I've always found a heat spot in her gut region. However, given that's the soft fleshy part of her body, I've never been certain as to whether this increased heat is normal or not. I am trying to do Reiki on her () - a friend explained how. I haven't yet developed the concentration span for that. But Kal loves the 'touch' feeling so she doesn't mind .

Abs:

Also, acupuncture might be worth looking into. If it cannot provide a cure, it can reduce nausea and stimulate various organs etc.

I thought I'd wait to see what comes of the second ultrasound on the affected adrenal gland. If that shows nothing of significance, the next step, IMO, is holistic/alternative medicine. :D

Zoiboy:

The correct spelling is 'Coeliac' (i spent a while last night looking for the mag) and it is diet control only.

Thank you. I did a google search and it has given me some idea of what Coeliac is about. By its description, I'm not sure. As per above, I thought I'd stick to our normal feed until we check the adrenal gland for any further enlargement before I start playing with diet. Only because I'd like to avoid complicating symptoms at the moment. But I do plan to print out the info from the internet and bring it to the Vet's attention when I see him next month. Maybe it's the rolled oats that are the problem? Although there have been times over the months that I've switched to spaggetti (although that's wheat, isn't it?) and noticed no difference. Maybe there's something in this "Coeliac" thing, Zoiboy ... and worth checking out if the adrenal gland shows nothing of significance on the next check.

Abs:

Hope something good comes along to help you and Kal soon.

We (Kal and I) thank you both, Zoiboy & Abs (in fact, everyone) .... for your suggestions and for your thoughts. Will let you know how we get on at the Vets after our appointment on 11th April. :D

Edited March 18, 2006 by Erny

[zoiboy]

Thank you. I did a google search and it has given me some idea of what Coeliac is about. By its description, I'm not sure. As per above, I thought I'd stick to our normal feed until we check the adrenal gland for any further enlargement before I start playing with diet. Only because I'd like to avoid complicating symptoms at the moment. But I do plan to print out the info from the internet and bring it to the Vet's attention when I see him next month. Maybe it's the rolled oats that are the problem? Although there have been times over the months that I've switched to spaggetti (although that's wheat, isn't it?) and noticed no difference. Maybe there's something in this "Coeliac" thing, Zoiboy ... and worth checking out if the adrenal gland shows nothing of significance on the next check.

Hi Erny,

Yes you have that right Spaggetti is also wheat. If I was going to play with Kal's diet at all I would replace the oats with rice. Or I would leave the grain out alltoghether. The only grains

a coeliac can have would be rice or corn. As Abs has mentioned you need to 'be aware' of added stuff in the likes of skim milk and for that matter any thing that has been proccessed at all. Most corn flour (for excample) is not made from corn but from wheat.

Just as an aside the only thing that is noticed (so far as I am aware) in the gut is a lack of villi and that needs a look see under a micrscope to see.

I sure hope you get to the bottom of this soon.

Cheers

Linda