tramissa Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 When will you find out more Erny? Sending good thoughts Kal's way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 Thank you for asking, Tramissa, and Kal and I thank you for the good thoughts. :D The Vet said he should be in tomorrow and will look at the ultrasound report/result then. He said he'd call me. As I will be training at the kennels tomorrow, it will be a matter of when he calls or when I can call him back. I'm hoping that by the end of tomorrow we will have been able to discuss his thoughts on the matter. I remain positive. I don't know if that's because I've got this 'feeling' that it will work out ok, or whether it's simply because that's all I can be at the moment. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pampa Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 (edited) I imagine you've already googled what both of these conditions may be, or may cause so AGIAN I can't add anything helpful... Did you find this link ?... http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dadrenalgland.html Also, when "googling" many articles point out that enlarged adrenal glands can point to Addisons or Cushings which also show similar symptomes to diabetes... I don't recall you speaking about diabetes in the thread (and don't have the time right now to read through again :D )... Have you checked her for diabetes ?... (I guess that was ruled out with the first blood tests :D ) Anyway, follow your *gut feeling*... If you feel it will turn out OK, it will ;) Maybe now you will be able to aim all that energy into getting her "right" instead of "peddling in the couscous" as the quaint french expression goes... Edited February 15, 2006 by pampa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 Maybe now you will be able to aim all that energy into getting her "right" instead of "peddling in the couscous" as the quaint french expression goes... :D ... does that mean "wasting bl#@dy time worrying over something I don't know is the right thing to worry about"? :D Pampa .... the extra time I find I have merely caring for my dog and NOT worrying about what might not be, I use to send you and yours my good wishes for your girl's full recovery. ;) Pampa:Â .... AGAINÂ I can't add anything helpful... Your thoughtfulness alone is helpful. Thank you. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pampa Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 (edited) Erny, whilst you were answering I edited my post to add some stuff... Have a stickybeak just in case :D "Peddling in the couscous" simply means putting a heap of energy into not getting very far despite the effort... :D Edited February 15, 2006 by pampa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 Thanks Pampa. Yes - the Vet ruled out diebetes in the initial blood tests. The one enlarged adrenal gland does point to one form of Cushings, although I admit that ANY weight gain is not evident, either in appearance or by evidence of scale. I haven't (in my non-professional and limited knowledge capacity :D ) ruled out Addison's Disease either. I will wait for the Vet to call me. At least we are taking steps which are surely closer to telling me what is wrong and then, hopefully, to what we can do about it. I remain overwhelmed by the amount of time and attention people, who don't even know me, will give to my plight on behalf of Kal and the well wishes we've received. Humbling, to say the least, but particularly gratifying. Thanks everyone. I'll come back here once I've spoken with her Vet. In the meantime, keep well all. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Erny, yep thats right an enlarged adrenal gland can be the cause of either cushings or addisons.( and all adrenal tumours are not malignant) It far more commonly is related to cushings but not always so, IMHO one should not rule out addisons yet. . Should have added in my earlier reply that many gall bladder polyps are just colesterol Keeping Kel in my prayers for a quick diagnosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labsmum Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I remain overwhelmed by the amount of time and attention people, who don't even know me, will give to my plight on behalf of Kal and the well wishes we've received. Humbling, to say the least, but particularly gratifying.Thanks everyone. I'll come back here once I've spoken with her Vet. In the meantime, keep well all. :D I agree with that (your quote). It is very touching and for me too and restores my faith in humanity. I just read your thread Erny (I thought you was a fella too by the name). Sending some blessings/good vibes for Kal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 (edited) Thank you everyone. I spoke with the Vet today who confirms there is a mass on Kal's right Adrenal Gland. In short (if that's at all possible for me ) he tells/suggests to me: 1. The Gall Bladder polyp is likely to be incidental and is unlikely to be a problem. 2. He acknowledges that the Adrenal Gland produces hormones including those that produce Cushings. Given that one adrenal gland is enlarged, he acknowledges that it could signify one form of Cushings. Even though Kal's other clinical signs, in his opinion, don't support Cushings, he agrees that we would be foolish to rule it out and need to test for it even if for the sake of eliminating that possibility. IF it is proven by the tests that Kal does have Cushings, she will have the ADH (which is the adrenal dependant version, as opposed to the petuitary dependant version). The safest medication normally prescribed for Cushings would not suitable in Kal's case, as that medication effects the petuitary gland, not the adrenal gland. The other medication would be the one which does have side affects and which might produce an irreversible cortisol response that would result in Addison's Disease. Another alternative would be surgery to remove the mass. IF the surgery were to be successful, it would cure Kal of Cushings Disease (if, in fact, tests prove this is what she has). However, it is tricky major surgery as the adrenal gland rests on the kidney and is right next to the aorta. The form of tumour Kal has is the kind that has a tendancy to invade blood vessels and veins. There is, according to my Vet, a 10% chance that Kal would not survive the surgery, due to the possibility of her bleeding out. This, I guess, would depend on how invasive the tumour has become. The only other alternative would be to do nothing - allow Kal to live out the rest of her life in the best way possible, and when 'quality' stops being 'quality', for her to be laid to rest. I find that last part of the sentence difficult to type and does not come without the production of tears. 3. It might not be Cushings. It might be that the enlarged adrenal gland is producing adrenaline like hormones in spurts (I presume he means more than the body would normally require). The choices for that is surgery, or do nothing. 4. It might be a benign growth producing nothing and may bear absolutely no relevance to Kal's condition symptoms. The odds on this are about 25% benign and 75% malignant. So, without a doubt, the first step we shall undertake is to rule out (or rule in) Cushings disease. He wants to do this test on a Thursday and I need to speak to the kennels at which I train to work out a day that I can take off for it. We will be at the hospital from 8.30 am until 5.30 pm on whatever date we arrange. As is usual, they accept that I will remain with Kal throughout. So, as far as further investigation results are concerned, I guess I have to wait to organise the date and then get the results. I do have one question before I close this particular post, however. I don't think my Vet believes the condition is Addison's at all. I know the test for Cushings is described the same as for Addison's (ie ACTH). Is it conducted in the same way? Or does that have to be two different tests. I know this is something I can ask him, as I figure, if it's not too extreme for Kal, it'd be good to get both done at the same time if possible. Edited February 16, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 The ACTH stim will either confirm cushings or addisons one way or another. here is a link to a good explanation http://www.cslabs.co.uk/canine%20adrenal%20page.htm The ACTH stimulation test will provide confirmation of Addision's. It is also useful to measure the Sodium/Potassium ratio. re surgery: The greatest postsurgical risks for these tumors are sudden drops in plasma cortisol levels and pulmonary embolism. Other possible surgical complications are hemorrhage during surgery and postoperatively, electrolyte imbalances, pancreatitis from blood clots or manipulation of the pancreas during surgery and complications from undetected or uncontrolled urinary tract infections that become severe due to the stress of the surgery. NOTE: This is a specialist surgery. You really need a surgeon who know what he/she is doing and has experience. more surgery info here: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_adrenal_treatment.html There is also a good yahoo list( covers cushings, addisons hypothyroid and other autoimmune diseases). members only list. I have been member since 2001. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CanineCushings-AutoimmuneCare/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pampa Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Damn it Erny Unfortunately its going to be *wait and see* until you get the the tests done. Thinking of you hon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 (edited) Thank you Dogsbesotted for the information. I must admit I'm all 'thunk' out at the moment, so I hope you don't mind that I revist your post in the next day or two and read the links you've supplied. I'm sure it will be helpful information. I think my Vet is a little surprised at the amount of information and understanding I already have - although many don't like us to do our own research (and I can understand why sometimes, because sometimes some people think they then "know" it too well), but I did notice there was a lot he could talk to me about without too much explanation. Surely that will reflect on his bill to me! Thanks Pampa - I agree .... "damn". The last two years have been a long drawn out saga, beginning with many shrug offs and accusations (verbally or otherwise) that I am neurotic, to now. And we're not quite finished yet. Whichever way it works out, I can't help but recall that Kal's previous owner was going to put her to sleep because she simply didn't want a dog anymore. If she would put her to sleep for that, I could not imagine Kal being here today, given the amount of money, Vet care, post operative care and concern that has been necessary in the past five and one half years, if she had not come my way. Small mercies and many blessings thanked by me, for Kal has the apocalypse that has altered my life. I will, of course, keep you all informed of the outcome of the tests. I understand my options. I'm not sure which one I will take, when the time comes to decide. That decision will lay dormant until I know what Kal is dealing with. I didn't realise what a huge thread this would turn out to be when I first posted about the peculiar symptoms Kal exhibited a month or so ago. Thanks once again for all your well wishes and generous thoughts. from Kal and me. Edited February 16, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) Ok - I've had a few days to stew/think/dwell on Kal's condition. Regardless of what it is: Cushings Addisons Incidental the choice of treatment Surgery Medication Do nothing isn't great. So I'm opening my mind up to exploring more options, just to widen the field a little. I did a (so far) very small amount of googling into holistic treatments - to my surprise, there are some. I've emailed one person who wrote about it - she's in the USA (I think) and asked for some help. There's a human medication too - called something like "Adrenoboost" or some such. Thinking about getting it for me too, going by the wonderful reports that were posted about it. (But then, they'd hardly post the bad reports, I would think.) In the meantime, does anyone here know of a holistic Vet/technician who has some good experience in this field and who might be able to guide us, assuming this is the treatment I chose for Kal, in the administration of holistic medication/treatment? I'm closing off now to go to bed and I have an early start to training tomorrow, so apologies if there are responses that I don't get back to until Sunday night or Monday. ETA: The Vet has to confirm the appointment, but I've booked Kal in for the testing regime required to rule in, or rule out, Cushing's & Addison's disease on 9th March, 2006. Will post results when I know them. Edited February 18, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Best wishes to both you and Kal. Erny whatever you decide, you will know it is the right thing to do with your beloved Kal. Best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 Thanks Isaviz. That's the scary part .... I'm not sure I WILL know which one is the right one. Each has its down side. Each is not without its own risks. And I have to be the one to make that decision on her behalf. Tough call, whichever way I go. I'm praying that I be guided to the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pampa Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Amongst others, "Holly" is a wealth of info. on holistic treatments, she has given many valuable suggestions on alternative treatments and suggestion on vet choice on the thread stared by Jodi (Staffyluv) on her beloved Olliedog... Below link... Maybe you could PM her ?... http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...1&st=&p=entry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 Thanks Pampa .... I've PM'd Holly. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tramissa Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Not much to say Erny, except I'm still thinking of you both. Trust in yourself that you will make the right decision for yourself and Kal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne_Fury Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Erny I am praying and have everything crossed for you and Kal. You have come this far and can't turn back now. I know what it is like to have a sick dog on your hands, Murray is not well this weekend, but no where near as serious as Kal. Keep your chin up and I'm sure that you will get to the bottom of it all soon. Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 (edited) Thank you, Tramissa and Anne (CF). I've also been receiving PM's from numerous ppls - thank you all so much for your support, both morally and on an informative level. I have an email back from the lady in the USA. She has given me reference to a girl ("gal" :D) who practices in Australia. Information on her is scant, as she can't recall her surname or where abouts in Australia she is, but she has given me a reference point to start from. Haven has also reminded me of a person who we do both know of (I had forgotten), so I will seek to contact her during the week. Holly is also going to ask some colleagues in her training club if they know of someone (ie HV) in Victoria. The person she knows is interstate. Mind you, if I thought this person could help Kal, and if I think Kal can stand the trip (she loooooves car rides ;)), I'd go there. But that is a contemplation after I've done a bit more homework and after tests are completed and results known. Thank you everyone. What great sounding boards you've all been - and fantastic moral and spiritual support. Edited February 19, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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