Uncontrollable Urge To Pee. Stops On Vomit

[Erny]

Hi!

Last night, while out for a walk in the park with my de-sexed 12 yo Rhodesian Ridgeback bitch, she became quite 'pacey' and obsessed with eating grass (big time - not terribly unlike a horse being let out into fresh spring pasture). She'd only stop her pacing and grass eating to squat. Most of the time, there was no urine (she'd already passed good amounts of urine during the walk - not just marking, but serious peeing, if you know what I mean ), but during this 'episode' there was about three times when there was urination involved. First a reasonable amount (which surprised me given the wee stops she'd had not long before). The other couple of times just dribbles.

She would dry squat whilst pacing, as if she couldn't help it, and I noticed her vulva (?) was pulsing, as if it had this strong urge to pass urine, when none was there to pass.

All of this occurred within a space of 2-3 minutes. Finally, she vomited (the vomit comprised of white froth and grass, naturally, as well as yellow stomach bile and a few remnants of vegies from her breakfast that day.

Once she had vomited, her urge to pee disappeared.

Does this trigger any ideas for the cause of the problem with anyone here? Does it make any sense? She has got a complicated history of health issues (weight loss; intolerence to many food stuffs; exercise intolerence) which have appeared in the last 2 years - following a series of operations which began as a result of her having swallowed a bone that caught in her oesophegus.

Because of weight loss and food and exercise intolerence, I went back to Werribee Vet Hospital (Dr. Russell Mitten) last week. He's checked her heart and done a full blood work up, reporting to me yesterday (before our walk) that everything is showing absolutely normal.

I'm not sure if these signs she showed last night are in any way connected to existing concerns I've got with her, or whether they could signify something independent to those.

I've emailed Russell Mitten - he only works on Tuesdays, so it'll be a little while before I can expect a response. I thought I'd run it by you guys in the meantime to see if these recent symptoms ring any bells.

Thanks for reading.

:D

Edited July 18, 2006 by Erny

[trifecta]

Sounds like it could be cystitis Erny, in which case she will be in a lot of trouble if she has to wait until next Tuesday to see her vet!

[Erny]

Thanks Trifecta. But would cystitis symptoms of urination stop merely because she vomited? There has been no excessive urination (nor any futile urges to urinate) today. If it is suggested here that this is urgent, I will have her checked more urgently at our local emergency centre.

Edited January 18, 2006 by Erny

[Allerzeit]

It sounds like she had a really upset stomach, and part of her reaction to that was feeling the need to toilet.

[Erny]

It sounds like she had a really upset stomach, and part of her reaction to that was feeling the need to toilet.

As far as the "confused" emoticon is concerned, I'm with you, Allerzeit! I'm really quite puzzled. (In fact, I've been puzzled by a number of various symptoms apparent ever since the "bone incident" - I don't know that the vets I've seen know, either.)

Can an upset stomach bring about such a strong urge to pee?

I shouldn't laugh ... I'm quite concerned.

Thanks for your post, though. It helps even to know I can share my thoughts and concerns here.

[Lablover]

Erny,

I am worried.

In my experience, I have had two labs, who both had instances of insane grass eating (not to be confused with normal grazing) during their most severe illness period. Interestingly neither vomited.

I would have the dog sleep with me/us, to keep a constant eye. My dogs are normally with me during the day also, so I am aware of any change, not matter how small or seemingly insignificant.

I am too embarassed to begin to tell you, how many after midnight visits I have taken a suspect dog to the emergency vet or centre, with no problems being diagnosed and a wagging tail in the morning!!!!

Good luck.

[Erny]

Lablover .... I'm worried too. In fact, I guess I've been concerned about her on and off (mainly on) for the past 2 years (since the bone swallowing incident). I've done everything I can, even in the face of one vet suggesting that "over investigation is a disease too" and others implying I'm a mere worrywart. Some Vets have been nice and seemingly understanding, but didn't seem to be able to see the "big picture".

Russell Mitten seems to recognise there is a problem, but has admitted that he is at a bit of a loss as to what else to check. I have to weigh Kal once a week for a month and report back to him then. As you would have read in my first post, he doesn't know about this new symptom though, and it concerns me too.

I mostly work from home (except for tomorrow, when I am training at the kennels) so she's been and still is close by me and I too have her sleep on a dog mattress on the floor next to my bed (has done ever since she swallowed the bone and had following complications such as peritinitis, amongst other things).

Thanks for your concern. I think I might ring the emergency centre and describe the symptoms and see what they say. I expect they can't diagnose over the phone (heavens, I certainly can understand that), but they might be able to give me an idea if they at least recognise the symptoms as being of anything significant.

Edited January 18, 2006 by Erny

[Lablover]

Erny,

I understand completely.

My husband and I do not have children, but friends do. They tell me how a child may have a cold or the like and off to the local doctor they go, with me shaking my head, thinking - gee wizz, it is only a cold.

I hang my head in shame, as I am just as bad, with my dogs.

The last time I telephoned the emergency centre, with one of my little dramas, I fully expected them to insist on a visit. They did not !!!! and gave me some good advice on signs to look for, with that particular problem.

Good luck, again.

[KOE]

Hi Erny

Dont know about your dog but I have been fixed up and if I have a stomach upset and dry reach or vomit let me tell you the urge to pee is overpowering, so maybe with her the vomiting is using all the stomach muscles and relaxing the lower muscles.

[Erny]

Thanks to you too, Isaviz, for responding. That theory would make sense to me too, if it weren't the other way around. She was peeing/trying to pee in amongst grass grazing. It was only once she vomited that the urge to pee stopped.

I've just got off the phone from the emergency centre. I've described the symptoms (and a brief .... hah! impossible to be brief! run down of her turmoilish history over the last 2 years). The symptoms of last night don't in themselves ring any immediate bells with them either. They're not suggesting nothing is wrong (I've felt there's been something wrong for the last 2 years, as I mentioned, and have been periodically having checks/bloods/investigations done all that time), but on my description of her demeanour, are suggesting it doesn't sound like an "emergency". I don't think it is either - albeit I feel it IS something that deserves vigilent attention and investigation.

I just sent her outside for her "before bed" pee. All is normal there. She came running back inside and happily trotted to her bed (where she waits until she sees me pick up her blanket to put over her .... tough dog, not!). Meal time, bed time, car drives and me are her favourite things!

Her coat sheen is good, as is her appetitie and her eyes are clear and sparkly. I will continue to keep a close eye on her (as per usual .... close inspection of her poo and watching her pee has become a standard part of my life ).

Thanks, everyone, for coming here to read and to take the time to throw up some suggestions/possibilities. She is better than she was during the 'episode' last night, but if she was to deteriorate between now and Tuesday, I will take her to emergency or an alternative Vet.

Thanks again. Fingers crossed.

Edited January 18, 2006 by Erny

[KOE]

I hope she is fine Erny I should not read posts minus glasses.

I would ensure that the vet checks her kidneys as vomiting and renal failure can go hand in hand.

let us know what happens if she continues to do it or when you take her to the vet.

[KOE]

Found this in a google I know it says cat but the question is worth asking.

Most of the time, it's pretty obvious that something is wrong with your pet when they have a urinary tract problem. They strain to urinate, or because of the inflammation and irritation, they don't have normal control and pee in the house. Indoor Cats pee in places other than their litter boxes. They pee much more often. Sometimes you can see blood in the urine. Male cats that become "blocked" and can't urinate due to a urethral obstruction usually become extremely ill and lethargic and often vomit.

[Erny]

Hi Isaviz - blood tests taken only yesterday week ago show kidney function normal. The Werribee Vet also took a sample of urine and tested that - it came up all clear as well. That urine sample was one week ago, so I guess it's possible for a urinary tract infection to have developed in the meantime...... maybe.

BTW - liver function normal also. Sugar levels also normal.

She's not "blocked" - quite the opposite. And I see that her urine is clear and pale in colour (ie not dark rich yellow). No sign of blood .... that I can see, anyway.

I feel like I'm blocking all your attempts to provide helpful suggestions, by negating them. Don't mean to. I really do appreciate them. And Isaviz - that you took time out to 'google' means alot. I'm humbled. Thanks. (looks for "humble" emoticon .... )

[Muttaburra]

Sounds like constipation or undigested bones in stomach. Vomiting is just the grass tickling which is what dogs eat to help them evacuate the stomach and also help bowel movement.

You say she is not blocked, but sometimes a hard stool can stay lodged and other stuff gets pushed out loosly around it, so I would still not discount something in the gut.

Has she had a lot of bones lately?

[Erny]

Sounds like constipation or undigested bones in stomach. Vomiting is just the grass tickling which is what dogs eat to help them evacuate the stomach and also help bowel movement.

You say she is not blocked, but sometimes a hard stool can stay lodged and other stuff gets pushed out loosly around it, so I would still not discount something in the gut.

Has she had a lot of bones lately?

... sorry .. not laughing at you, but rather, at my (and Kal's) situation. All these troubles began when she swallowed a large piece of bone (cracked it off the end of a marrow bone). She's done this twice. Due to nerve damage it caused in the oesophegus, I even have to soupify her meals now.

She doesn't get bones anymore. Well ... on the odd occasion. And they are marrow bones with the knobbly ends sawn off (so she can't crack them off) leaving the shaft part, which is harder still.

But it's developed that I can't give her many of those either. Firstly because I won't give her one when I haven't got the time to dedicate to sit out and watch her chew on it. Secondly, because she doesn't seem to cope with fat content very well anymore ... if I feed too many it makes her stooles sloppy.

Also, she had done a poo (nicely formed ... a smidgy bit soft, but holding its shape) on arrival at the park. She's poo'd since. This was definately a squat for a wee, not a crouch for a poo. (Sheesh .... I really gotta get a life! ).

But I hear what you say. I just can't think of anything she eats that could block ... 'cause everything needs to be and is soupy. I will keep it in mind as I continue to study her, though.

Thanks, Abergavenny. :D

Edited January 18, 2006 by Erny

[KOE]

what about senility.

only kidding, does sound like a blockage doesnt it. Has he checked her for a bladder prolapse?

Edited January 18, 2006 by isaviz

[KOE]

Urination blockage:

Straining and crying while posturing to urinate without the production of urine is very serious. Especially in male cats there can be an obstruction of the urethra from minerals or small bladder stones. Without appropriate treatment, your pet can die. If you believe your dog or cat is unable to urinate, do not delay... seek veterinary attention immediately.

It also said vomiting is of no consequence on eating grasses.

[Muttaburra]

That's cool Erny, it's alway interesting to get to the bottom of these things, never know when one of my dogs might get the same.

Well as you know Eskimos have dozens of words to describe snow

With some nursing training and around 4 years nursing experience I have learned that nurses, mums, and animal carers have lots of words for poo poos.

Well I have to say I don't know. It won't do any harm to give her a good dose of Slippery Elm Bark, and with mine I always add some processed bran to their dinners, you know the little wriggly ones, not so much for food value, but to keep a consistent consistency, you know what I mean. It's very gentle and adds a bit of basic bulk with out being too laxitive or binding.

Perhaps just put her on chicken and light food for a couple of days. Monitor the water drinking and all things coming out the other ends.

[Muttaburra]

Further, if your dog is female, 12 and desexed, it's not unusual for incontinence to start to occur at this age. It is due to an overall weakening of the muscles in the body to do with aging and also lack of hormones in the female dog.

There is a lot of success treating this with hormone therapy, just the right amount needs to be given, usually less than the contraceptive dose, this increases muscle tone in the pelvic region.

[Erny]

Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to 'discuss' this with me.

Isaviz .. I don't know what they do to check for bladder prolapse :D

Abergavenny .. Thanks for the Slippery Elm tip. Must admit I'm hesitant to add things to her foodstuffs for fear of kicking off IBS. I almost had her better (this was about 12 months ago, after a long bout of visiting numerous vets and me insisting something was wrong) and then put her on Joint Formula. I had double checked with the maker of this product as to liklihood of reaction - he said he knew of 3 dogs in the world that reacted to it. Kal was the fourth. I've never got her back quite as well as I did the first time around. But I'll remember the tip for if it is necessary. ;)

Isaviz .. Since the 'episode' I described in this thread, urination and defecation has returned to normal. No incontinence last night.

Abergavenny:  With some nursing training and around 4 years nursing experience I have learned that nurses, mums, and animal carers have lots of words for poo poos.

;) I expect they have! I've got a variety of descriptions on tap myself!

Isaviz ..  what about senility.

Don't kid about it! I've pondered on that over the last 12 months, wondering if it's my dog's condition, or whether it's mine! ;)

Abergavenny .. I've been conscious of the fact that incontinence can come with older age. It did only begin after the 'bone incident' and the serious of surgeries that were done following that. It usually occurs when she's uncomfortable, and I'm suspicious that her back might be out again ... so perhaps it's that. Or even maybe it's just coincidental that she's 2 years older than when the bone incident occurred. Maybe the incontinence WAS initially due to pain and discomfort ... but maybe it's now an age thing. I will be taking her to see her chiro next Wednesday.

Well ... the urge to urinate sequence and its cessation upon vomiting has got me beat too. But she does seem ok (well, back to her normal 'not quite ok' status, anyway). Her appetite is great and she slept fine last night, except for one point in the early hours of the morning, when she whined ............. because her blanket had come off her and she wanted it back on. :rolleyes: I put it on. Don't tell anyone .... 'cause I'm meant to be the strict, hard, no nonsense dog trainer!

As I mentioned in my first post - I sent an email to Russell Mitten with ALL the nitty gritty details of what happened at the park the other night. I will return here when I have any form of information from him in response, to let you know what he says.

In the meantime, thanks ever so much for your attention to my thread. It's nice to know there's somewhere to go when I'd otherwise have turned it over and over and over in my mind by myself. Makes a difference to share.

Edited January 19, 2006 by Erny