Daxilly Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Hi I have a 16 month ACD who killed a chicken yesterday We tied chicken around her neck but removed it after a few hours as she appeared to be very distressed. ( Didn't help me either) This morning she knows she is still in the bad books, as she will not look at me and all the body language is very submissive. (ears down etc) She won't even eat her breakfast and is hiding in the corner. I have put her car harness on, which she hates. How long should I continue ignoring her as I don't wan't to continue if she is gaining no value and can no long realise it is because of the dead chicken ;) . Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Dear Muttley, I am sure you will get lots of different opinions but here is mine. I would not punish a dog in this way. If i was a dog i think chasing chickens would be a hoot, all feathers and noise. When i first got chickens (many years ago now) i would take the dogs into the pen on lead and reward them for ignoring the chickens, i didnt take to long and they showed no interest in the chooks. I also would not continue to punish a dog after the act. I dont think your dog will understand why you are behaving like this and she would of long forgotten about the chicken. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 I don't punish my dogs unless I catch them in the act and then they get a sharp "NO" or "BAD DOG". Excessive barking gets them 30 minutes of time out - away from human contact. When we lived out west the old farmers used to tie the dead chicken to the dog but I am not sure how effective that was - I wouldn't do it to my dog. It would be like rubbing their nose in a mess they have made as an attempt to toilet training them. You dog probably knows you are mad at it but at this point it may not know why. I think your dogs behaviour doesn't show he is learning anything other then to be scared of you. Definately time to forgive and move on to a more positive training method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daxilly Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 Thanks. Have taken her off the harness and she is now happier. The problem is that she is usually so good around chickens. When she was a puppy we took her in to the pen and she would ignore them. Probably because of this we were lulled into a false sense of security. Now she is ignoring them. She is not consistent in her behaviour. Thought she may need to go to a behaviouralist to see if that will help. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 She won't make any connection to the punishments you have used, she is only responding to your body language- obviously you are still unhappy about what happened yesterday. Do you want to use the car harness in future? If you want her to learn to like it then you are totally going the wrong way about it. How did she have access to the chickens in the first place? Firstly when you are not around, she needs to be unable to access the pen. Secondly, your pen should be secure enough that she can't get in- if she can, then a fox definitely can. She doesn't need to see a behaviourist- she's being a dog! - although a qualified trainer may be of benefit. Be aware that you have a breed with very high prey drive, that's what she was doing, demonstrating prey drive. You need to remove the possibility of access to the chickens until you get some help and understand how to correct the behaviour. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 (edited) . Edited May 8, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daxilly Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 That's the other thing, I think she got in through holes she made in the fencing. I think we may need to get re inforced wire that is impossible to penetrate. Unfortuately, up until this point we thought we didn't need it. This is the first dog I have owned so I am trying to do the right thing but I suppose it is like children, you learn from your mistakes. That is why I find reading this forum so helpful. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 If you tell us your location i.e State and general are- eastern, metro, country etc. We can maybe help out with some trainer recommendations. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 make sure the dog can't get to the chickens the dog didn't mean to kill the chicken keep the two apart from now on and you won't have any problems. Don't stress too much about punishing the dog now that you know you shouldn't have, dogs are very very forgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 The dog has learnt at present to hate 2 things, you for placing something around its kneck that has frieghten it with hopefully no ill effects & that the car harness is now a tool of punishment. Whether a new dog owner or not you cant seriously think tying a chicken around a dogs kneck was a responsable thing to do & to sit & watch the dog in distress for a few hrs is quite shocking & what you seriously though this was going to achieve is a tad mind boggling. Dogs can be forgiving but they also dont forget & like humans some things can be a fear for life. The dogs reaction to you is not knowing whats going to happen next as to not being consistant in behaviour that is a dog for crying out loud & your response to what she has done is more inconsistant to her than anyhing she will do. If you want chickens around dogs you house then correctly its not that hard. The dog has obviously being digging for awhile & you havent adressed the warnings signs then now the dog has done something your jumping up & down like it was unexpected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Showdog I realise you are obviously upset by this incident, but I think you are being a bit harsh. I don't get the impression that the OP is 'jumping up and down like it was unexpected' and think that to suggest that the dog now hates it's owner is excessive. It is likely that the method of tying the chicken around the dogs neck was suggested by someone. It was and probably still is a popular method of dealing with stock killing in some areas. It is called aversion training and it actually can work sometimes, but Muttley, there are much better ways of using aversion training than the method you described. The suggestion made of seeing a qualified trainer to help you with this issue is an excellent one. As also mentioned, a secure area for the chickens is a must. No matter how well socialised your dog and how good she may be around the chickens, a dogs prey drive is permenantly recallable under the right circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Showdog I realise you are obviously upset by this incident, but I think you are being a bit harsh yes but I don't think showdog realised was a newposter and that Muttley is listening to what is being said. I think SD saw red... just like me... then didn't read the thread... ta da... I did for once is ok Muttley, so pleased you came here for help you will get lots of great advice. Some of those outdated punishments are still happening, now you are here we will re educate you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 K9: just a thought on "punishment" as a training tool. I dont like to punish a dog at all ever, when you punish a dog you are chaining or pairing yourself into the sequence of events. For example, dog pulls washing off the line, even if you catch the dog in the act & punish the dog, when the complete sequence is not present, in other words, you are not there, the dog will still pull washing from the line. I use "consequences", these are actions that are brought about by the dogs actions. Dog pulls washing off the line & finds a water balloon that bursts all over him.. Nothing to do with the hanlder, yet effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Dog pulls washing off the line & finds a water balloon that bursts all over him..Nothing to do with the hanlder, yet effective. and what about the dogs that lurrve that game? I prefer not to have washing hanging out when the dog that would exhibit that behaviour is alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I prefer not to have washing hanging out when the dog that would exhibit that behaviour is alone Thats management not training. If they love the baloon, you find something they dislike.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I prefer not to have washing hanging out when the dog that would exhibit that behaviour is alone Thats management not training. If they love the baloon, you find something they dislike.... does it matter so long as the washing isn't mangled? I mean management or training, maybe sometimes we need a bit of training. I was never a mother who taught her kids 'not to touch' I removed all they could damage or hurt themselves on. When the children reached an age of understanding then I explained why they should not touch... and they didn't. good management... no tears... happy relaxed mother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Horses for courses, but I can tell you from experience that not putting washing out on the line when the dog is around is not an acceptable option for most people and they usually aren't keen on relocating or fencing the washing line either. The OP would never have to worry if they decided not to keep chickens, but if that is not a desirable option a training alternative is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I did not suggest that the op not keep chickens. Keep the chickens away from the dog, secure the chickens, secure from Mr Fox too. Why do people need to peg out their wash with a pup around? no need pup thinks 'wow look what Mum left for me to play with yipeee rippeee whoopee' simple not to leave it pegged out when pup is alone unsupervised. There is no need to have unsecured chickens or unsecured washing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Some people take the management to the levels that I personally dont like. They dont walk the dog to prevent them from being pulled around on lead..... Id rather teach the dog not to pull than not walk it at all..... IMHO - train the dog, if you fail to train than manage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 management and training are very closely intertwined with both children and dogs I don't really understand your walking reference because we are talking about chickens and washing. I didn't raise either problem. I offered my simple effective and no stress solutions. They work... I would never suggest not walking your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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