nooksmum Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Hi All.. Newbie here hoping for some advice. I Have an 8yo Border Collie who back in May totally ruptured her Anterior Cruciate Ligament in her right hind leg (vet couldnt find it when he did op).. Had the op to fix it, and it has been a slow recovery since.. (strains, swelling etc) 2 days ago whilst out walking she somehow managed to strain it again (was on leash) and here I was thinking we were getting back to 'normal'. Anyway, whilst at vet he suggested removing 'replacement ligament' as there would be enough scar tissue etc there to keep it stable, and that the replacement ligament may be what is causing her ongoing problems? My only concern with this is .. what if we remove it, then find that we did need it!!??? I dont want to put her through any unnessecary pain etc. Ant thoughts on this?? Anyone had this done?? Please help!! Thanx in advance!! Nooks 'worried' mum!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Hi nooksmum! My girl (Red Cattle Dog) has just had a Tibial Wedge Osteotomy on her first leg for her cruciate rupture. She was originally booked in to have similar surgery as what you have been recommended, but it was cancelled as the surgeon thought that for a bigger dog this was not the best way to go. If your budget allows, please consider being referred to a surgeon who will perform an Osteotomy (either tibial wedge osteotomy or tibial plateau levelling osteotomy - there is also a new osteotomy procedure out but not sure of name). I can't tell you how pleased I am with the results so far (12 days post op). My girl Chloe is a different dog. You wouldn't even know she has had surgery. She walks on the leg fine and does not seem to have any pain. And I can say that after seeing the results of the first surgery, I will definitely have her other leg done. I guess it's just a matter of finding the right surgeon, and also being prepared for the post operative care. But any surgery of this nature has similar after care. These osteotomy methods also allow faster healing and weight bearing. I also Googled these procedures beforehand and found a wealth of information on the actual procedures compared with each other, helpful pictures and valuable after care advice. Please, if you have any questions at all, feel free to contact me. I am by no means an expert, but am currently going through it and know where you are coming from. Thankfully we were referred to a great specialty surgeon who appears to have done a great job on Chloe's leg. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 There's always a risk unfortunately. My advice would be that if you can't 100% trust your vet's advice, get a new one. My Rotti is also recovering from cruciate surgery and has recently been going more backwards than forwards. My Vet suggested that the cranial wedge surgery was a consideration, if I were really worried about her progress. I elected not to, simply because she has had a litter and two surgeries in less than 12 months and I think thats enough to put her body through for the time being. I hope it works out for you, whatever you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 (edited) I would probably get a second opinion by way of an Orthopaedic Surgeon...if they take out the artificial ligament and it's not stable- then what? ;) Also you may be dealing with alot of arthritic change, as older dogs have often had a partial cruciate tear for quite a while, and that your Vet couldn't find any cruciate left suggests it was probably ruptured for some time. You can't do much about arthritic change unfortunately other than neutraceuticals, i.e. glucosamine, chondroitin sulphate, green lipped muscle powder etc. Perhaps Cartrophen injections too. Cheers, Mel. Edited December 18, 2005 by StaffordsRule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 (edited) . Edited May 7, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koza Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 My dog had the implant brocken 10 weeks after op. Now she is 1 week after second op, they put a thicker one. She looks good so far. Did you ask the vet how bmuch experience does he/she have with this operation? You might look for a second opinion, but generally vet would be the best person to discuss the options, as he knows your dog better, has seen the joint inside and so on. My dog is 3.5, she went pretty well through the ops, but older one may have a weaker heart,... and its level of activity, its weigth.. maybe she doesn't need it so much and will be happy just to have a short walk, layind down the rest of the time? The operation doesn't prevent arthritis in that joint, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 (edited) . Edited May 7, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nooksmum Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 Hi everyone.... Thank you so much for all the replies I really appreciate it! Nook seems a bit better today.. and we have had a short walk this morning.. maybe I will just have to get used to her having good days and bad As far as finding an orthopedic surgeon I have very little chance of that where I live (unless I go to the 'people' hospital lol ) .. am planning on phoning a few other vets to ask them their opinion on removing the replacement ligament. Until then I will just enjoy lots of hugs, puppy kisses and short walks with the girl :cool: Have a wonderful christmas everyone!!! Take Care Nooksmum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koza Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Koza Posted on 19th Dec 2005 - 02:26 AM  My dog had the implant brocken 10 weeks after op. Now she is 1 week after second op, they put a thicker one I guess you are not referring to a titanium implant but a replacement ligament, not osteotomy. Titanium is an extremely strong metal and I doubt enough pressure could be applied to break it. Either way, confinement is required after a surgery of this nature. No vigorous activity for at least 12 weeks. This was a requirement of the orthosurgeon who made quite sure I understood how important the rehab was in the overall outcome of the surgery. My dog was crated to restrict movement. Yes, she had ligament repacement. We did everything to the vet's advice, she was going through the rehab, allowed to walk and later slow run on a lead. It didn't look nice from the beginning, though, it looks to me now like it was slow failing from the beginning, maybe untied? - compared to what she is like now. The vet said she did 70 operations with 100% success, so I trust her... I had discussion with ortho, they confirmed she should be OK with the string. (actually, it must have been more than 10 weeks, maybe 14, she was crated 8 weeks) Keep fingers crossed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 (edited) Hi Nooksmum... glad to hear Nook is feeling a bit better today. I hope that you have some luck with the second opinions from other vets. I too, at first, wondered if putting my 7.5 yo girl through the operation was too much for her, and if perhaps I was just better off letting her have her good and bad days. But the good days certainly were not making up for the bad days. She started to not want to walk at all, and if she did would lag behind and just want to come home. She couldn't run or play ball anymore. She would get into trouble for running or doing anything that would hurt her leg. And if she did manage to run to the fence and give the neighbour a 'woof', she would severely pay for it for the next few days. She was on pain killers every day, and was still struggling. So in seeing all of that, it made the risk of putting her through the surgery so much easier. Okay, she has to be confined for a few months which she hates... but after her recovery she will be able to be a normal, or even semi- normal dog that can run to the fence if she wants and not have to limp back. And best of all, be able to enjoy walks and be able to get up and down with ease again and slow down the deterioration of her joints. At 7.5 yo and so many more years to live, the decision to have the osteotomy was the best decision I have ever made. Even with only one leg done, I can already see the results paying off. I can't wait to have the other one done now. And as Anne explained, with a successful recovery from the osteotomy surgery the ligament no longer poses a problem as the plates stabilise the joints. Not sure of what other treatments Nook is having, but Cartrophen injections and Sasha's Blend have also helped my girl before she had her operation... although she still got progressively worse. Hope everything turns out well and Nook is back to her lively self in no time. She really is a very beautiful girl. Edited December 19, 2005 by Kelly_Louise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_sprent Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 :D As far as finding an orthopedic surgeon I have very little chance of that where I live (unless I go to the 'people' hospital lol ) .. am planning on phoning a few other vets to ask them their opinion on removing the replacement ligament. Until then I will just enjoy lots of hugs, puppy kisses and short walks with the girl :p Hi Nook's Mum Just to let you know that I live down in Tas too and we have just had our dog's cruciate ligament repaired with a titanium plate on the 10/12. I took him in to the vet to confirm our worst fears that his limping was due to rupture of his ligament and the specialist from Sydney just happened to be down until the end of the day! So we didn't get much time to think it over... She will be coming down again mid Feb to do a check up x-ray on the boy, so if you think you could wait that long that could be an option for you. She'd probably be happy to discuss it over the phone before then too. The vet we are seeing her through is the North Hobart Veterinary Hospital if you're down here in Hobart. Anyway, good luck with it. Our boy is only 18 months and doesn't really seem to grasp the idea that quiet and calm is what we want from him rather than mad games with bunny and teddy... Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_sprent Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 :D As far as finding an orthopedic surgeon I have very little chance of that where I live (unless I go to the 'people' hospital lol ) .. am planning on phoning a few other vets to ask them their opinion on removing the replacement ligament. Until then I will just enjoy lots of hugs, puppy kisses and short walks with the girl :p Hi Nook's Mum Just to let you know that I live down in Tas too and we have just had our dog's cruciate ligament repaired with a titanium plate on the 10/12. I took him in to the vet to confirm our worst fears that his limping was due to rupture of his ligament and the specialist from Sydney just happened to be down until the end of the day! So we didn't get much time to think it over... She will be coming down again mid Feb to do a check up x-ray on the boy, so if you think you could wait that long that could be an option for you. She'd probably be happy to discuss it over the phone before then too. The vet we are seeing her through is the North Hobart Veterinary Hospital if you're down here in Hobart. Anyway, good luck with it. Our boy is only 18 months and doesn't really seem to grasp the idea that quiet and calm is what we want from him rather than mad games with bunny and teddy... Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 OK an update on what is going on with Nova, which may or may not help you... She was healing great, or appeared to be for close to 3mnths after the op, although the leg was quite atrophied and was slow to gain condition there was no limping. Then she suddenly came up lame (after resting) after even a small amoutn of excersise. I decided against the cranial wedge ostectomy (or whatever it is called) as I mentioned earlier. My vet mentioned that he had seen a number of cases where healing had been inadequate due to hypothyroidism. Nova was checked and sure enough her thyroid was abnormally low. Now she is on treatment for that, her healing is well on track, her leg is almost back to normal condition and I haven't seen her limp since she started treatment. She also uses the leg much more than before and distributes her weight more evenly instead of favouring that leg most of the time. Might be something for you to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brittanygirl Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Seems like it is a common problem. My shih-tzu X tore his right cruciate 4 weeks ago and his left 2 weeks later. My poor boy can hardly walk, and has lots more bad days than good days at the moment. I am just starting his post operative exercise which is a real struggle for him. If someone has a recovered dog, can you tell me if he will eventually become almost back to normal. I hate to see him in pain like he is now, and would like to know that the operations were worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koza Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Vets and lots of people say they go back to normal, even can do agility. I saw a working husky who had a partial rupture at 8 yo and didn't have op, only full restriction for 2 monthts, went back to pulling and is completely OK. Seen a mastiff with both ligament replaced, he isn't jumpy, but walks OK, no limping or any signs of the trauma. Same time, vet recources say the arthritic changes will be faster in the injured knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 (edited) . Edited May 8, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brittanygirl Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 It is nice too know that dogs will recover almost full mobility after the surgery. My boy Rory wasn't much of a jumper before the operations, so don't think that will change too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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