Confuse Re. Food

[cleo]

I currently feed my dogs chicken, vegies, rice mixed with Hills Science Diet and once a week with sardines and a huge bone. Hills was recommended by a friend of mine who use to be a vet. After reading several threads regarding Royal Canin, Eagle Pack, Natura etc etc I am not so sure if Hills is good enough for my lovelies. Any opinions regarding what is the better option?

[blacklabrador]

Cleo - everybody has differing opinions as to which food they think is best. All the BARFers will tell you to drop the dry food altogether and use a well balanced BARF diet.

Others will tell you not to waste your money on expensive dry food - that the middle of the road ones are just as good.

And others will say that dry food gives a dog all it needs and you shouldn't mix dry food with anything else.

That about covers the main arguments ;)

[Luv a debate]

You are feeding all the right "natural" food so why ad a processed ingredient? Just make sure your meat is raw and not cooked. After all..dogs in the wild never cook there food. Dr Ian Billinghurst's book Give your Dog a Bone explains all this beautifully and with common sense. Keep it simple!

[sugar]

Hills is a complete food. No need for the extra rice/vegies. I would just give raw bones as an added bonus for chewing/teeth/and its yummy for them!

I give Supercoat, chicken wings, and huge juicy raw bones(for my lab) from the butcher, the butcher always cracks up when i say not to cut it up ;)

[Miranda]

Any opinions regarding what is the better option?

If what you're feeding is working for you and your dogs then stick with it ;)

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

I believe in feeding raw, whole foods to my dogs to the exclusion of most processed foods/treats/snacks. Why? Because IMO these processed foods are inferior, they contain non-essential additives (preservatives are esp bad IMO, as are colours and flavours...shouldn't a food already taste great???), they make a dog smell bad, they do not clean the dog's mouth and most likely *cause* dental and gum disease b/c they "stick" to the dog's teeth and gums (is that part of the design???), and they're hugely expensive any way you look at it. That is, if you compare the equivalent cost of processed foods to raw foods, weight for weight, you'll find that feeding raw (using top quality human grade foods, organic included!), the raw feeder spends considerably less money than the processed feeder. Then, if you look at how often a dog fed on processed foods is at the vet compared to the raw fed, I think you'd probably conclude that the raw fed dog is considerably less expensive to maintain and stays healthy and happy into old age.

The only downside? Sourcing top quality ingredients and preparation of the foods yourself. But wait - I spend an hour every few weeks to a month in preparing veg/fruit slop (and I can put in whatever additives the dogs might need, such as yoghurt, LSA mix) and use whatever human grade ingredients are on sale or cheap b/c they're in season, and I buy the dogs' foods where I shop for our foods (except meat as we're vegetarians), so really, I don't think it "costs" me that much at all.

I have no qualms in recommending ppl do their research and make up their own minds. BUT know that you have a much better idea of what is good for your dog than some multinational corporation only concerned with profit-making not the health and wellbeing of your dog. And know that processed pet foods have only been around in recent history - ask your grandparents (if they're still living) what they fed the family dogs and the answer is: meaty bones, table scraps/leftovers, and whatever the dog hunted or scavenged for herself. Dogs are opportunists and in years past, there were ample opportunities for dogs to hunt for some "extra" goodies! Today, we live in such highly urbanised environments that most dogs can't hunt...sadly. I'd love it if my dogs could chase down a wild rabbit or two --- I'm sure it would do them the world of good (not sure about me, though). ;)

So, believe the multinational when it says the processed garbage you feed is "complete and balanced" and "all your dog needs (except the unnecessary snacks and treats we also market for huge profits...)" or do your research and take back the ability to feed your dog and feed her well.

[blacklabrador]

I give Supercoat, chicken wings, and huge juicy raw bones(for my lab) from the butcher, the butcher always cracks up when i say not to cut it up ;)

Why not Sugar???

If it's a bone they can eat totally they will eat it regardless bit by bit.

If it's a marrow bone - cutting it up only allows them access to the marrow inside - they still can't really eat a lot of the bone besides the joint bit.

[White Shepherd mom]

cleo, what condition are your dogs in? Are they healthy, shiny coats, clear ears, eyes and nose, healthy stools, etc?

If all your answers to the above are positive, why would you want to change their diet?

Just curious!

[Dogsfevr]

Cleo if your dogs are happy dont change .

Some BARF feeders will make out your doing harm to your dogs by not following there way of feeding but feeding is a personal choice & if your dogs are in good condition ,happy etc then dont change.

Barf isnt for all dogs just like some commerical brands dont suit certain breeds

As to the time at vets compaered to barf feeders is a little over the top,i now of die hard barf feeders who spend more time at the vets than we ever have so that is no arguement .

We have boarding kennels & we see dogs feed all sorts of stuff from die raw to tin & all the dogs are in equal condition .

We personally dont use Hills as it cant be given to one of our breeds but many use it with success.

I agree ditch the rice,vegies but give chicken knecks,raw mutton/flaps,tuna yoghurt each day.In summer we give carrots for the dogs to chew on so the flys dont hang around unless its bath day.

Dont worry

[cleo]

Thanks for your replies. I don't want to change their diet per se but just thought I should give them the best there is to give. I worry they might not be getting all the required nutients just from fresh food alone so tend to mix in a bit of the commercial stuff. I guess all the info regarding commercial food found on this site has just confused me somewhat.

They are both healthy. Infact Mick who just turned 10 has never been sick a day of his life. Hopefully I will be as lucky with Cleo. She is 5 months and doing well so far.

Thanks again ;)

[KitKat]

Barf isnt for all dogs just like some commerical brands dont suit certain breeds

;) And to the rest of your post

I tired the BARF diet with my dogs, with my older dog his condition didn't change, but then again i'm lucky because he looks fantastic on any food. I swear i could feed him cardboard and he'd still look good

My young GSD on the other hand...his condition dropped on it, i was having to feed him waaaay more then the recommended amount to stop him from looking severly underfed, his nose went all dry and crusty, and his coat lessened in condition. That was feeding him by the book and i ended up putting more stuff in the diet to try and combat the dryness etc. Within two weeks of me putting him onto mostly Royal Canin but still with extras - eg, bones, turkey pieces, sardines every so often, egg once a week etc he was looking perfect again.

But i know others who are BARF feeding their dogs and they look fantastic Just comes down to some dogs do better on some things and some dogs do better on other stuff

As to you not being sure if Hills is the best - It is a Super Premium food along with Royal Canin, Advance, Eukaneuba, ProPlan, Nutrience and Eagle Pack...those being the most readily available ones anyway.

If your dogs are looking good on what they are currently getting, then stick with it...only change if you feel the need to

ETA -

they make a dog smell bad

Well...my dogs are on a predominantly processed diet and they don't smell...well...not unless they've been rolling in something. In fact i had my GSD at work the other day and was asked if i had just given him a bath as his fur was lovely and he didn't smell...and i explained that he hadn't been bathed in about 2 months - the people asking were stunned I find dogs are more likely to have the doggy smell if not brushed enough or due to not being fed good quality food eg there might be something in the kibble that disagrees with them, eg colouring being a big one etc. Tho sometimes it is just the dog..lol.

they do not clean the dog's mouth and most likely *cause* dental and gum disease b/c they "stick" to the dog's teeth and gums

I check my dogs teeth on a regular basis, even after meals on occasion and i've never had food stick to their teeth? mind you several times i have had to pry bones out of their mouths due to them getting lodged on back teeth. If you check the kibble, the bits are either to small to stick and get hoovered up anyway or they are large enough that the dogs crunch it doing a lighter version of bones. But are much less likely to tear the gumline, lodge beside teeth etc. Not that i am against bones, this is just something we all have to take note of when feeling them such things -or perhaps it's just me But my dogs are supervised when eating bones these days.

That is, if you compare the equivalent cost of processed foods to raw foods, weight for weight, you'll find that feeding raw (using top quality human grade foods, organic included!), the raw feeder spends considerably less money than the processed feeder.

It can indeed be cheaper if you get a good supplier, however when i looked back over it i was spending more money then i do now on food, perhaps due to the simply huge amount i was going thru trying to keep condition on my non BARF suitable dog.

Then, if you look at how often a dog fed on processed foods is at the vet compared to the raw fed,

This may be the case for dogs who have allergies to certain additives etc, but i've only taken my dogs to the vets due to injuries that were not food related, and vaccinations. I have also personally hear of dogs going to the vets due to impacted bowels, and blockages to be dealt with because they could not process the bones adequately...and they were by the book Barf'ers. Unless the dogs are not being fed an adequate diet IMO this isn't a particularly good argument...i'm sure i could give a good argument for both sides of this just from what i know.

Once again...it all comes down to what you are happy to feed your dog and what it does well on...Quality processed food, Barf, mix of both, whatever ;)

Edited December 18, 2005 by KitKat

[sugar]

Why not Sugar???

If it's a bone they can eat totally they will eat it regardless bit by bit.

If it's a marrow bone - cutting it up only allows them access to the marrow inside - they still can't really eat a lot of the bone besides the joint bit.

Not sure of the why not? As in bone I dont want cut up?

[O-Ren]

see my thread also about being CONFUSED about all this dieting stuff! it also has some great advice in it

[HuntinHound]

Cleo - everybody has differing opinions as to which food they think is best. All the BARFers will tell you to drop the dry food altogether and use a well balanced BARF diet.

Others will tell you not to waste your money on expensive dry food - that the middle of the road ones are just as good.

And others will say that dry food gives a dog all it needs and you shouldn't mix dry food with anything else.

That about covers the main arguments

;)

[blacklabrador]

Why not Sugar???

If it's a bone they can eat totally they will eat it regardless bit by bit.

If it's a marrow bone - cutting it up only allows them access to the marrow inside - they still can't really eat a lot of the bone besides the joint bit.

Not sure of the why not? As in bone I dont want cut up?

yep ;)

[sugar]

Because my boy loves it in one piece. He thinks its Christmas when he gets one, and it keeps him busy for hours, with the small ones, they are gone too quick.

[Dogsfevr]

Cleo you have answered your question,10 yr old happy & healthy & never been sick.Sounds like what your doing is fine ,in older dogs changing diets for no great reason can create more health issues than you bargained for.

We have 3 oldies here 14,12 & 10 all have something different due to what they can digest & flourish on ,any changes & they get upset tummies & feel off so we stick to what suits them.

Obviously with your youngster you can experiement a little but if your following your breeders diet sheet then stick with that till 12 months but adding yoghurt,tuna,sardines,raw mutton her & there will d now harm at all & give some variety to the biscuits,any queries maybe phone the pups breeder

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

KitKat, firstly I'm so sorry that you have a dog that apparently can't tolerate fresh, whole, raw foods. That's really sad. I've never known a dog that couldn't or didn't do well on whole, raw foods. I've known dogs that couldn't tolerate one particular protein source, for example, or one type of vegetable, but never any dog that can't eat any fresh, whole, raw foods. My goodness, that means that processed foods would likely cause the same trouble if they're using similar ingredients.

Secondly, regarding the dental issues with processed, you can't see the foods sticking to the teeth and gums, as it's the residue that is left behind that does the damage in the long-term. Think of kibble the same way you think of a human eating processed foods. While you don't see the actual foods sticking to the teeth some hours after the person eats it, there will be residue left behind and if it's not brushed off, then it will form plaque which then forms tartar. So, for a dog eating processed foods, esp kibbles, this means that the mouth should be brushed daily in order to avoid tartar build-up and gum disease...but in most cases, ppl leave it too long and the dog ends up having to have a GA and get their mouth cleaned and their gums washed out with peroxide or similar. Molly, my chi cross arrived with very dirty teeth b/c the rescue group fed HSD (they rec'd a donation of this "food" so had to use it) and the only thing that got her teeth clean was twice-daily chewing on RMBs - her teeth look normal now!

Again, I'm sorry to hear about your dog's food issues - I wonder what else you could have done? Perhaps changed the protein sources?

And I do believe that raw is cheaper. Even when I spent $8.50 per kg on white rabbit last weekend, b/c that will feed three dogs four meals. Usually, I don't spend that much, but the rabbit is a treat! I usually only spend about $5/week on RMBs and another couple of bucks on the rest (veg/fruits, sardines/mackerel, yoghurt, etc) b/c I shop well. That feeds one large dog, one medium dog and one tiny dog. I couldn't feed even the cheapest processed for that, assuming that the dogs could tolerate it!

[Dogsfevr]

[sugar]

Whats the matter