Castration

[NorthernStarPits]

jodee,

alot of vets offer vascectomy steralisation now, so hormone levels remain the same in the dog but obviously it wont be able to sire pups.. afterwards full desexing/castration could be done when the dog has completly finished growing if you wanted ..just another thing to think about.

ime sure your vet can give you the run down.

[ozzieozzie]

cheers simonsta,

I read something of this earlier in the thread, and am going to google now. Appreciate the idea.

from Jodee

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

As a shelter worker that is constantly bombarded with "lost dog" phone calls and people coming in frantically searching for their missing dogs, I can honestly say that the GREAT MAJORITY of missing dogs are sexually entire, usually male, and often larger breeds and mixes. Why do they go missing? Because they're excited by the scent of sexually entire females on heat, because they're bored in the home environment, and because they can get out.

I can also honestly say that most missing dogs are not microchipped, are not registered, are not wearing a collar or other form of identification...and that most people say they were "just about" to get the dog desexed/registered/chipped/buy a new collar.

Really!

Desex your companion animal because it's the right thing to do.

[ozzieozzie]

Lillysmum, I am also a shelter worker, with the awl, my dog is microchipped, he is registered, both with the council,and petregister, and is an indoor dog.

Really!

I am after advice, and the only one so far who has given me advice, and not their "opinion" is: Sirmonsta,Blackfoot and jelly, who I thank, so far not many has opinionated the anti for early desexing in relation to maturity and growth, only those saying, to desex him cause its the right thing to do, I am not an irresponsible person who owns a dog, you know, I do know how to raise a dog, which is undesexed, even though I am not a breeder, and Im sure that some breeders dogs can also get out and spread their seed.

I also agree that there are many irresponsible dog owners out there, and see it in the shelter, but please, dont assume that all pet owners are the same and like I said already, why would I spend thousands on a dog, only to not let him amture as he should by desexing early?

Jodie

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Jodie, I'm providing you (and others reading this thread) with MY experience at work every single day. I'm tired of trying to help ppl whose dogs go missing and I'm tired of trying to educate ppl as to the benefits of desexing their companion animals when those who ought to know better even think about keeping a sexually entire companion animal. How can we possibly hope to educate the vast majority of ppl with companion animals when those that ought to know what is the right thing to do, feel that they can be the exception?

I'm not saying that your dog will ever go missing, but if its sexually entire, then there is a very strong likelihood that this will happen. Otherwise, why is it that the majority of missing dogs are sexually entire? Are the ppl that keep them really just incredibly stupid when it comes to securing their yards? No, I don't think so. The sexually entire adult male canine will do *whatever it takes* to get to a bitch in season and guess what? Yours won't be any different just b/c you consider yourself to be different.

There is a saying (which is quite true) that an outdoor cat has a much shorter life than an indoor cat. There could be another saying that the dog most likely to go missing is a young adult male with his testicles intact. How do you propose to manage the situation so that YOUR dog will be any different from the rest?

BTW - no matter how angry the issue of missing dogs makes me, I still treat every single person that has "lost" their dog with compassion, respect, and understanding. They may not necessarily know at the start of the call that they could do better by their dog, but I hope that if their dog returns home, they *might* be prompted to change their management of the dog and his environment. If just one person becomes educated as a result of speaking with me, then I've made a difference. And that is surely worth it.

[jelly]

I can honestly say that the GREAT MAJORITY of missing dogs are sexually entire, usually male, and often larger breeds and mixes. Why do they go missing? Because they're excited by the scent of sexually entire females on heat,

Yes, that may be the dogs motivation at least in some cases, but this second part only reinforces what I think:

because they're bored in the home environment, and because they can get out.

I can also honestly say that most missing dogs are not microchipped, are not registered, are not wearing a collar or other form of identification...and that most people say they were "just about" to get the dog desexed/registered/chipped/buy a new collar.

Suggests to me that these are also generally people who arn't particularly resposible in any way. These are not people who researched and made a decision, rather people who just never got around to it and probably were never intending to.

why is it that the majority of missing dogs are sexually entire? Are the ppl that keep them really just incredibly stupid when it comes to securing their yards?

The reason I believe most missing dogs you see are entire is not so much because they are entire (although, yes this may mean the dog wishes to roam to a greater extent than a desexed animal). Rather that these owners who have left them entire and then lost them are not the type who would bother to do research... OR microchip, OR register, OR collar, OR make sure the yard is secure. When added up that says irresponsible to me.

Desex my pet because it's the right thing to do? Yes, I did in my new situation. However, I'm not about to desex my pet if I feel it is the wrong or an unnessesary thing to do, and I am never going to be guilt tripped into it and nor should anyone else.

I have had entire males before and never had a lost dog problem because they were secured properly as well as being registered etc. It's not an issue of simply "desex your dog", it's an issue of be "responsible for your dog" and that does not necessarily include desexing.

Edited March 12, 2006 by jelly

[Nadia]

As someone who also works every day with the lost, the sick and the dumped animals I applaud your passion lillysmum, but some people are capable of making INFORMED choices and being responsible owners of ENTIRE animals.

I myself have several geriatric entire animals who have never been a problem, they are also healthy.

Jodee you may find this link interesting.

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

Yes for many owners the BEST thing is to desex, I will never agree that it is entirely the BEST thing for the animals however.

[morgan]

Think I must be missing something here

Who says that it is mainly entire animals who stray? Are there any statistics on this? Is this just the personal opinion of refuge workers? If it is the case, are the dogs entire because they have irresponsible, non-caring owners who don't contain their dogs? Or are they responsibly owned dogs who have managed a one off and escaped?

I personally know MANY desexed dogs, very responsibly owned, who are absolute houdinis - they simply want to get out to explore the world! One is a basenji, desexed as a pup - as he can climb 3 metre fences he is now contained by an electric fence system (the very expensive dog "containment" system. He is smart enough to check it constantly, and every time there is no power to it, he escapes! He is known on a first-name basis at several pounds.

Another dalmation bitch, desexed at 4 mths, could get over 2 m fences - her yard ended up looking like a concentration camp, complete with barbed wire, she could squeeze thru the tiniest gap and disappear for days - one time she ended up on a freeway before being picked up by the pound. Her owners spent a fortune trying to escapeproof her yard and give her a complete life - she ended up being pts. I always considered her to be somewhat brain-damaged. Maybe the general anaesthetic did cause a brain injury at such an early age?

Another is a JRT who regularly sits on top of a 4m high shed in the yard - he climbs up fences, runs along the top of the pergola, and jumps onto the shed - he then frequently jumps down into adjoining land and disappears for hours. Another desexed kelpie x still manages to escape despite extensive electric fencing - he is a regular visitor to the local pound. His owners are at their wit's end! He too was desexed as a pup.

Some dogs are genetically predisposed to want to get out to explore the world at all costs, others are couch potatoes who wouldn't even consider it if the gate was left open and the red carpet rolled out. Desexing really doesn't make ANY difference with these dogs!

As for desexing a giant breed - as these breeds are usually absolutely incapable of breeding before 15-18 mths, why on earth should they be desexed early? They don't even need to be vasectomised, because they are too physically immature to breed! I can understand desexing toy breeds at 6 mths, as the bitches often come into season at 7 or 8 mths, and the dogs mature very early too, but just because it is ok for a toy doesn't mean a large or giant breed needs the same treatment?

I have tried to get matings from very large breed dogs at 14 mths - forget it! Yet I have heard of a whippet siring a litter at 5 mths - not all dogs are the same!!!

Sometimes I simply don't comprehend how a site for "the pure breed dog community" gets so one-eyed about desexing - the rescuers amongst us seem to be hellbent on indoctrination - I would have thought open minds would serve our beloved companions better...

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Sure, the majority of lost dog owners are probably less than responsible for their dogs, which is usually why they're left entire. However, we also have many owners of entire dogs that claim they are responsible but that someone else left the gate open, or the dog found another way out of the yard, or that no matter what they do, the dog finds a way to escape the yard. When asked if it's possible to put the dog somewhere more secure such as indoors, the response is usually in the negative. And many of them think it's "cruel" to desex their male dog, yet they have their female done AFTER she's had one litter too many and they've had trouble "getting rid of" the resulting pups, OR they simply dump her at the pound b/c they can't be bothered getting her desexed - how cruel is that?

What bothers me the most is that these dogs are the ones that suffer due to the owner's lack of understanding or lack of action to avoid the dog roaming. I don't like having to call someone to advise them that we think their dog has been found, dead by the roadside...but that's part of my job. :D When the outcome is a dead dog, and when that could have been avoided by desexing the dog rather than leaving it entire, that's a preventible death...when ppl say that they don't know how to tell their children that the dog is dead, I tell them to be honest but gentle. And we advise them that if they get another dog, it's best to desex it/chip it/have an appropriately fitted and adjusted collar/get the dog registered with council/check fences and boundaries for gaps or loose palings or ways to scale or jump the perimeter.

The same ppl have the same dogs go missing repeatedly. So educating them isn't really helping to reduce the problem. What else can we do?

[Crysti_Lei]

*in my best Lumburge from OfficeSpace impression* Whats haappening? Yyyeahhh, i going to have to go ahead and... disagree with you there, yyeahhh. :D

if it is an asthetics thing then vasectamise (sp). peronally i prefer the look of a nertered boy mainly because it's a good trade off coz dag balls...all balls are ugly. LOL

i havern't read the atricle, sorry, too tired and dyslexic today to try.

this risk of unwanted puppies simply outwieghs every other possible arguement you could make, especialy with vasectomy as an option. those puppies that could be borm are little LIVES, no less presious than your or mine, except because they belong to dogs they with rarely get the proper care that that [lives] of people do.

if it because of what a person likes and what that person wants their dog to look like, i see that a selfish. (please don't take that as a personal attack, i couldn't find another way to phrase that, sorry if you do through, i is just my opinion)

if you don't know whe Lumburge is, rent Office Space, its a very VERY funny movie!!

Christie