Re-introducing A Now Fear Aggressive Dog

[Alison]

Sorry about the long post in advance:

I am going to stay with my parents in QLD in a few weeks for a little over 3 weeks. I am taking Tyler up there who is fear aggressive of large dogs. We are staying with my parents and their Lab. Tyler and Jess (Mums dog) where really good friends and lived together for a few years without any altercations. My parents have been in QLD for about 3.5 years. We visited a year after they moved and Tyler and Jess seemed to remember each other straight away and had no problems. At this stage Tyler's fear aggression had just begun. It has now been 2.5 years since the dogs have seen each other, and unfortunately Tyler's fear aggression has progressed. We have worked on her fear aggression and it has regressed a fair bit. She now is only scared of a few large dogs. She is fine if they are not right in her face. She wants to play with other dogs, but once she gets face to face with one she freaks out and gets scared and growls. If the other dog growls back then she would take it to the next step (although this is never allowed to happen unless the other dog is off lead and I have no control of it). Other than when she was attacked, which caused the fear aggression to start, she has never had a full blown fight, only growls and air snaps. It is a rushed trip up to QLD so I can get there before Christmas. Unfortunately we do not have time on our side, and can not slowly re-introduce these dogs as I would like to do. Alternative accomodation is not an option at this time of the year. This is my plan for the re-introduction. Please pick it apart, and tell me what I should be doing differently. I only have one chance to get this right:

I will get to QLD at about 4.30/5.00 pm. We are going to introduce the dogs at a local park. She will have the excitement of seeing 3 human people that she hasn't seen for some time and loves to pieces. I am hoping this will take away some of the pressure of the dogs meeting. After Tyler has a quick play with her human friends, I will take Mum's dog on a lead. Tyler's dad will have her on a lead and allow the dogs to get close enough to each other that they will not have to run to get to each other. Tyler will be taken on lead around to the rear of Mum's dog to smell his bum. I will hold Mums dog on lead while this happens so he does not turn around and get right in her face. (This will not bother my mums dog, he is a very playful dog with no fear). Once Tyler has had a sniff, if she seems ok she will be let off lead while Mum's dog is kept on. This will give her the opportunity to come up to Mum's dog without feeling trapped. If they get on fine with no altercations and seem to remember one another, than they will both be allowed off lead to play. My reason for keeping one dog on lead is if something does go wrong, then someone will grab Tyler and I will already have Jess.

I am crate training Tyler in case all else fails. Alright, please pick my plan apart. Tell me what I am doing wrong, and what I am doing right. This is such a stressful time for me, and it is really important that I do this right.

Edited for spelling

Edited December 3, 2005 by Alison

[Erny]

Alison - it's a tall order for anyone to set out a prescribed step by step plan. One thing I would recommend is that you avoid making a big deal out of this meeting. Your stress is likely to transmit unintended and unfavourable signals to Tyson and may create a volatile situation, rather than calm it. Do some parallel walking ... allow the dogs (and you) to relax.

Keep the dogs separated. Go out for another walk the next day. Let the dogs indicate to you how they feel and whether they're ready to properly meet. And when they do, I wouldn't orchestrate who sniffs who's bum and when. Too much interference there can easily lead to creating tension between the dogs. You just need to be aware of the dogs' body language and know when to bring them away from each other before an altercation commences.

I would recommend that you speak to your class instructor. At least he/she has the opportunity to see (and perhaps know) your dog better than any of us here. Through your class lessons, the instructor might be able to direct you/give you hints (first hand, by demonstration) on two dogs meeting, as well as advice on the very early warning signs to indicate trouble on its way.

Oh - and without knowing your dog or your Mum's ... I wouldn't be too quick to remove their leads.

[Erny]

Alison - an extra post as my concerns with giving you any advice on how to deal with your situation is that I don't know how profound this "fear based" aggression is.

If it is very profound and chronic, expecting resolution in one session may be too much to ask of your dog.

In the absence of knowing, I can only but leave the judgement to you. If you're unsure of your own judgement skills (and there's no shame in that), I'd highly recommend you seek some help from your club instructor/s (assuming they are competantly capable of dealing with these sorts of issues), as I mentioned in my earlier post.

ETA: You also need to know WHY your dog has become fear aggressive and why this behaviour is worsening. I'd suggest you investigate quickly your leadership status (as perceived by your dog) and work on some desensitisation practices/procedures.

Edited December 6, 2005 by Erny

[Alison]

Thanks for your replies Erny. Unfortunately it will be too difficult to keep the dogs seperated as it is such a small house. The only option is crating Tyler and I want to avoid this if I can because she will be very upset if she cant sit with my family who she loves very much. Do you think that the two dogs will remember each other? They did 2.5 years ago and they hadn't seen each other for just over a year. I was told that the dogs will be much more relaxed if they where off lead, and less likely to fight. Tyler is not full blown fear aggressive, just freaks out when she gets face to face with dogs she doesn't know and growls. If the other dog growls back that it is simply a jump on each other, growl and air snap. She has NEVER drawn blood. She really wants to be friendly with other dogs, but freaks out when they get face to face. Does anyone else have any ideas? Sorry to keep asking guys, but you have no idea how much I am stressing over this

[Hedds]

ETA: You also need to know WHY your dog has become fear aggressive and why this behaviour is worsening. I'd suggest you investigate quickly your leadership status (as perceived by your dog) and work on some desensitisation practices/procedures.

Can I just say, because I know alison wont, that that part is well under way erny. ;)

She has spent more time than anyone I know, researching, investigating and training to stop/reverse what has happened to Tyler. It is a total credit to her as a person and a dog owner just how dedicated she is to this problem.

(and for my part - alison and I have been walking our dogs together for the past few weeks. My dog is social, and they started off side by side on leads and progressed to bum sniffing and play bowing in a very short time. They have not been offlead together as yet, and I only mention this here so you all know Alison is very good at reading her dog, and can tell you exactly what is about to happen and change the circumstances before it does. Her asking for help and ideas here is because she has put so much effort into Tyler coming this far, and would like her pals on DOL's opinions on this coming meeting. Thanks guys )

psst - I could add she has no idea what a good handler she is and how capable she is with her dog, but I better not, or she'll smack me.

[Erny]

No worries Hedds It's terribly hard to give advice over the net when you don't know the dog or the owner's capabilities/knowledge/understanding.

Alison - good on you for putting in the work to improve Tyler's behaviour issue. The part that bothered/s me is you say Tyler's behaviour has regressed.

It is possible that Tyler may remember your Mum's dog and that all will be sweet. But, in the event he doesn't relax with your Mum's dog in a very short space of time, I can't think of anything other than keeping the two separated ... if you force the situation beyond Tyler's capabilities, the behaviour issue is likely to worsen and you will have undone the work you've already put in. To this end, what about some child gates so you can keep the two dogs apart. Not being familiar with your Mum's house layout, I don't know how this will work, but it might be an alternative to crating Tyler ... at the same time allowing him some freedom to become relaxed without feeling any threat or hassle from your Mum's dog.

If they do relax together (and I hope they do), I'd recommend them not being left together unsupervised ... I presume you wouldn't do that anyway.

In any event, don't forget to ALWAYS be Tyler's leader ... it will be up to you to keep him safe.

Edited December 6, 2005 by Erny

[Alison]

Who's Tyson? ;)

[Erny]

Who's Tyson? ;)

He must have been the other dog you had and fixed up! Sorry ... Christmas work pressure really wears me out. I've fixed up your dog's name in my last post .... apologies if I've missed amending it anywhere or in any of my other posts.

[cactus]

I may be wrong Erny, but I think Alison meant there had been some improvement when she used the word regressed.... I know that doesnt make actual sense but thats the only thing that makes sense for me in the context she used it.

Ok now you've addled my brain

cactus

[Alison]

That's right Cactus. What I meant is that in the 2.5 years since Tyler has seen Mum's Dog her fear aggression progressed to the point where I sort professional help and it has now regressed greatly to the point where she can be around other dogs without being aggressive (unless she doesn't know them and they are right in her face). I know how to read my dog and know her bounderies, and this has helped the fear aggression regress. She is still worse than she was 2.5 years ago when it first began, but she is much better, and we are working on it daily. She was as proud as punch this morning when the greyhound walked past and she had a quick sniff without freaking out.

I would not be so silly as to allow this meeting to ruin all the good (and might I add hard) work that we have done. Unfortunately that is done on a regular basis when idiots let there dogs off lead in public on-lead areas and let them wonder the streets. Any other ideas on how I can give these two the best possible chance at getting on and being friends? Also, does anyone think they will remember each other?

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: as requested Alison, here are my thoughts.

As you dont have time on your side & separate accomodation, your starting behind the 8 ball, its it either all goes well or?

I wouldnt start as you mentionedm though Im also not the one who designed whatever program your working on, but having said that, you said three adults are being met one dog, I would have 2 adults being met & as soon as the dog gets to them, they "take their attention on the road".

Meaning, the dog gets to them & they walk along rewarding your dog verbally, eye contact etc.

Your dog will probably be in high pack drive, excitred to see people etc, at this point the other adult should walk up & join ranks at the far right of every one, this means, its your dog, you, 3 adults then other dog.

Keep the attention of your dog on the people, if your dog goes out of pack drive, into defence, the other dog should be walked off keeping your dog near the pack drive triggers (the people).

Then keep walking all the time, if your dog wont go back into pack drive (big attention on people) you slow down & they speed up calling your dog..

Keep walking until you have re added other dog to ranks with no aggression from yours.

Then & then only attempt a meet by making the other dog sit down & weaving your way in (loose leash) closer to the other dog keeping the dog calm, allow your dog to sniff the other & then separate, you control all aspects, another short walk & another sniff, then separate, your looking for your dog to "want to" be with the other dog.

Its then a little more time can be spent...

Fear aggression "usually" occurs only during the "handshake period", once your dog feels ok around the other, most times things will be fine..

This is only a general guide without knowing, your dog, your skills or the decoy dog, or much else lol...

[Alison]

Just a quick note to let everyone know that we have had great success. Tyler was a little aggressive towards my Mum's dog at first, but once she sniffed his bum (shook hands) all was fine. The two dogs are getting along without a hitch. Have been playing together constantly and there is not a hint of aggression. To see these two dogs together you would not know that one of them is fear aggressive. Jesse and Tyler are having a ball together. Thanks for the hints Steve. Unfortunately Mum's dog Jess is far from obedient so wouldn't sit or stand still or do anything we wanted, so we just had to make the rules as we went along and I read Tyler using all that Steve had tought me and it all went fantastic. So thanks again guys. Im going to enjoy the rest of my holiday :D

[cactus]

Congratulations Alison! I'm glad it has all gone so well for you! I know what a relief that is :p I hope you have a lovely time enjoying the rest of your holiday :D

cactus

[Hedds]

YEY!!! I am so glad you updated this thread. Lots of DOLers have been wondering and wishing the best for you. :p

Well done, to all concerned. Have a wonderful rest of your holiday, enjoy watching your girl play again.. :D

[Alison]

Here are some pics of the dogs playing:

[Alison]

Another pic of them playing:

[Alison]

And one of them just chilling:

[Hedds]

Oh my, she looks very dangerous in that flashy pink collar Al......

ETA: Aw, that last pic is priceless. You must be so pleased.

Edited December 31, 2005 by Hedds

[ReXy]

aww great news this is fantastic and they look so relaxed together well done alison and tyler for putting in all that hard work has payed off maybe this will be the turning point for tyler and she will forget about the fear agression..