Rmb & Barf

[Guest LittlePixie]

I'm not espinay... but have you tried giving them carcasses etc while still frozen?

[Mana]

I'm not espinay... but have you tried giving them carcasses etc while still frozen?

I wouldn't want you to be espinay! I value you both!

No I haven't tried giving them frizzed carcasses, if they have it's only cos I haven't defrosted them enough.. I guess I imagined bones splintering more if they were frozen - that's silly, innit? Will give it a shot, thanks LP. (How's Kaleigh's barking when you leave going?)

& O-Ren - I'm not espinay either :D but - I reckon fresh eggs is the best - try giving them whole, and if they don't figure it out at first, crack them... but a dog dealing with a whole egg has the potential to be one of the comedic masterpieces of this world! (and they will often happily eat the shell too - beaut minerals in there if they do manage to eat and digest it).

[Guest LittlePixie]

I guess I imagined bones splintering more if they were frozen - that's silly, innit?

Er... possibly not... I hadn't thought of it. Mine get them every couple of weeks and I haven't had a problem... but then again, maybe that comes under the same category as "I fed my dogs on PAL for years and they were fine" and "I fed my dogs cooked chicken bones for years and they were fine".... umm... Espinay?? :D

(How's Kaleigh's barking when you leave going?)

We're managing it! She still cries if she's left totally alone but as long as there's another dog with her now, she's okay, so now when she wakes up at 6.30am I poke her outside with either Brody or Holly (depending on who looks more awake) and she's quiet. I still can't leave the room for too long if she's crated, but again, she's improving and I see a light at the end of the tunnel

[ElectraWoman]

QUESTION: how important is the vegies part of their diet? or would she be getting enuff from the vegie content in the bikkies

Bear in mind I am not an expert, but to my understanding...

Vegetables are not important in a dog's diet. In fact, you can actually do without them. It is far more important that a dog is fed the correct ratio of RMBs per day - at least 60% of a dog's diet should consist of RMBs.

QUESTION 2: raw or cooked vegies??? is cooked bad or just not AS good as raw?

Cooked is not bad, but the cooking process can destroy some of the nutrients. Therefore it is better if you feed raw vegetables. However, if you want to feed the raw vegetables, you should either mash them thoroughly or pureé them using a blender, so the dog can digest properly.

EGG QQUESTION: raw? boiled? fried? which is better??????????

Raw eggs are the best - again, the cooking process can destroy nutrients. You should feed the eggs whole.

[Mana]

Everything EW said... but re the eggs being fed whole - and I'm sure someone else will know the specifics that I don't remember off the top of my head, but my understanding is that it is necessary that the yolk and white are fed together because of a binding process that happens between the two... and stops overdose of a certain amino acid for young pups???? or something? I've read about it on this forum I'm sure - can anyone fill in the gaps? ;) ( )

she's improving and I see a light at the end of the tunnel

And I'm glad to hear it Pixie! :D

Does anyone else wonder though, with all this detail we go into with formulating dog's diets when we're feeding raw, whether it's all overkill?

I'm careful with what I feed the dogs, and try not to let the vege pulp sit for too long, and I add Vital Greens powder etc etc etc... but I never add up all the food groups and amino acids and vitamins in my own diet, I just eat as wide a variety of food as possible, as unprocessed as possible...

My dad ran a husky team in the antarctic and they lived and worked as healthily as all get out through the antarctic winter on hunks of seal blubber... not much more...

Edited December 4, 2005 by Mana

[Guest LittlePixie]

Hey tell me... I have a friend who says that the dog's system will learn to digest grated or even chopped vegetables and that it is therefore unnecessary to mash or puree them.

Is this true? Or can someone give me scientific evidence proving otherwise so I can chant "I told you so!"?

[Hazz]

I have a quick question - sorry to kidnap your post WS,

I just want to make sure I'm feeding my new pup correctly (for obvious skeletal and performance soundness) as I just would like to run this past the more experienced DOL barfers.

Vizsla pup currently weighing 8kg, 13 wks

- 1 1/2 patties (divided into 1/2 pattie meal 3 times a day - this I believe increases as her weight increases ?)

- 6-7 chicken wings / same weight in necks or wing tips (I believe this also increases ?)

- 1/2 a chicken carcass every 2/3 days

Does that sound correct ? - should I be supplementing anything/changing values on the above - any ideas ?

I'm only asking as I want her to have the best start and being very new to this diet I'm a bit blinded by all the info and ideas.

[O-Ren]

Hey tell me... I have a friend who says that the dog's system will learn to digest grated or even chopped vegetables and that it is therefore unnecessary to mash or puree them.

Is this true? Or can someone give me scientific evidence proving otherwise so I can chant "I told you so!"?

from my boilogy learning at uni the dogs gut is not physically or chemically developed to process vegies like ours

[espinay2]

Can I ask then whether you have any other suggestions for recreational/diversion chewing etc?

Beef backbones are pretty good. Lots of chewing, but bone is a bit softer. Pigs or Lambs heads make good chewing too (and great for scaring the neighbours ;-) ). PM me and I will let you in on some sources . Pigs trotters as well. If you want to still give the leg bones, I sugget trying to get your butcher to leave them whole rather than cutting them up.

And, if it's not a secret supply source , can I ask where abouts you get kangaroo tails from? I think they have them at PetBarn but I've had some dodgy meat from there...

Petbarn or the Organic Butcher at Belconnen Markets.

QUESTION: how important is the vegies part of their diet? or would she be getting enuff from the vegie content in the bikkies

They are generally considered not necessary. More of an added extra. As already stated, it is better to concentrate on getting the rest sorted (RMB's, organ meats etc). don't let worrying abut veggies distract you from more important parts of the diet.

QUESTION 2: raw or cooked vegies??? is cooked bad or just not AS good as raw?

My theory is, as they are non-essential it doesnt really matter if they are cooked or raw. I feed both when I do feed them either in the form of cooked or raw 'leftovers'. If you want to be 'purist' about it, the best method is fresh (not frozen) pureed in a food processor, juicer or blender.

EGG QQUESTION: raw? boiled? fried? which is better??????????

Whole and raw. With or without the shell.

Does anyone else wonder though, with all this detail we go into with formulating dog's diets when we're feeding raw, whether it's all overkill?

Definitely overkill. Look at the big picture and keep it simple! It is a natural reaction though. We are used to being told by pet food companies that pet food is very scientific and can only be done by people with lots of letters after their name. Well, commercial pet food formulation IS complicated, but that is because they have made it that way. They cook, they render, they substitute with strange and unnatural ingredients to try and find cheaper ways of providing individual nutrients, they try to put back in what their processes take out. There is nothing natural about commercial pet foods. I laughed a few years ago when one particular pet food company decided that to create the optimum cat food they needed to 'recreate a mouse in a can' - ummm, pardon me, but wouldnt it me easier just to feed them the mouse rather than trying to create it artificially and 'scientifically' using other ingredients? Sheesh!

Mana on a side note - would love to hear more about your Dads antarctic experiences. He ran the Mawson huskies???. My GGfather was with Scott on the Discovery PM me

I have a friend who says that the dog's system will learn to digest grated or even chopped vegetables and that it is therefore unnecessary to mash or puree them.

Is this true? Or can someone give me scientific evidence proving otherwise so I can chant "I told you so!"?

An animal can't change its natural genetic makeup. This is akin to saying if you feed a horse meat, its body will learn to digest it. Here are some articles:

http://b-naturals.com/Sep2005.php

http://b-naturals.com/Spr1999.php

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Just to clarify further re: marrow bones, IMO they're OK as an occasional treat if you keep them whole (i.e. if your butcher sells them whole, leave them that way). Frozen bones will take more work. But you must be ready and able to remove the bones once they get past the knuckle portion IMO. The shaft is just not worth them having access to you if are concerned about teeth breakage.

Beef backbones are great, but VERY messy! Outdoor feeding is recommended for these bones. The dogs will be occupied for hours...really!

[Kal]

I've fed my Sams on the Barf diet for about...over 6 years now (gee how time flies!)

They were switched from Dry food to the barf diet with no hassles, except didn't like the starch meal (see give your dog a bone) When the Grow your pups with bones book came out, I started using the patties, these were an instant hit! They love it!

The other plus I found with this diet is the consistency of their stools! You will never again get those huge smelly soft ones again! Its wonderful. They are healthier, and also have a lot more fun at dinner time.

My boy is(and always has been) a real guts, he inhales food!(not litterally!) I tried putting a few tennis balls in his bowl to slow him down - that didn't work. Now I give him his carcasses frozen and patties semi-frozen, he has to spend longer eating and actually think about what and how he is going to eat his dinner!

[Working_Setters]

Thanks to all who contributed - this is the most informative thread I've read on DOL for quite awhile