Cruciate Ligament Ruptures

[malleerr]

:p Yey for Chloe

I am soo glad that she is doing well.....it makes me happy to hear.

No Mallee has not eaten any foreign objects as such but still does have a liking for the couch legs, but only when she feels that we need to be punished for something. She is coming along in leaps and bounds literally, and we are beggining to wonder if the surgeons actually did anything to her........lol.... :p

We are walking Mallee everynight at the shortest she is going for 1 kilometre which we are rapt with even though short its a hell of a lot further than we would have imagined walking her 6 months ago or even 4!!! She is such a cheecky devil, if we miss one walk during the weeknights god does she let you know.

Next part of her journey to recovery is socialistation with dogs again - which if i am truthful makes me quite nervous. We are suppose to be looking after the inlaws staffie for about 2 months in August/September but i am just not sure if we can do it or not. I would hate for Mallee to injury herself once she has come this far along!! I know I am chicken and that i should just let it go but Mallee and Heidi(Staffie) used to play so rough together that i am sure an injury would occur either of Mallee or Heidi....argghhhhh having to tell the inlaws will be something!!! But on the other hand i understand how important it is for Mallee to start interacting with other pooches again....maybe i will suggest that we start taking the two of them for walkies together for a start.

Talking about muscle tone, Mallee is looking fantastic in the muscle development, Brock only said the other day "can you imagine how much more tone she is going to get once she starts swimming again"....i reckon there is not much difference in her now from pre surgery to post surgery! Although her front end is massive in comprasion to the back end - she is like the Hulk in teh front legs and shoulders...and strong...i have only just lately been able to walk her again by myself (getting her back into walking properly on the lead has been a task) as she was just pulling soo hard.

Anyway must fly - take care

Lots o love

Antoinette and Mallee Moozle

[malleerr]

opps double post

Edited July 10, 2006 by malleerr

[fido666]

Hi Antoinette and Kel,

Glad to hear Mallee and Chloe are doing well, all is fine with Duncan too.

Cheers,

Corine

[Kelly_Louise]

Well Lady Luck must be smiling on us all to have such great news!! I know what you mean when you say you couldn't imagine the great results Antoinette. I really thought all this was the beginning of the end for Chloe... and I would never have even dared to dream that the results would be so good. You say you are chicken to let Mallee do certain things, but I certainly feel that too. I guess sometimes we think it's all too good to be true? I know that I certainly do and it's scary, but I'm slowly learning to let go.

I also relate to the dog socialisation thing. My sisters Staffy used to come and play with Chloe all the time, however due to rough play (that staffy's just can't seem to help!!) I just can not allow it anymore. Especially not at Chloe's age. I feel terrible as her staffy Claire so loves to visit us and loves to go everywhere with my sister, but the risk of injury to Chloe is just too great for my liking. Unfortunately it's a hard decision to make, but sometimes it has to be done. With Mallee being so young though, I think it's a great to try to socialise them slowly by going for walks etc first. You may find that they settle down once they get to spend time together. You MIGHT be lucky... poor Chloe is just a social spastic . She gets WAY too excited and forgets that she's an old chook with bad legs!!! And Claire the staffy is a little energiser bunny... goes and goes and goes.

It sure seems that Mallee is well on her way to a normal and happy life, and I couldn't be happier for you all. It must be so rewarding for you guys to know that it's all paid off.

Hopefully all our pooches can continue on their way to health and happiness. Glad to hear that Duncan is also leading the way Corine!!!

Lotsa love,

Kel and Chlo Bo

[bilby]

BRILLIANT .. so glad to find this thread .. Bouf had cruciate surgery last Thursday so am just going off to read all the threads & links ... will be back soon if I can't find all the answers there

[cavNrott]

.

Edited May 8, 2009 by cavNrott

[goldielover]

Just wanted to say thanks for all the information contained in this thread, plus those who responded to my thread a month or 2 ago about one of the puppies i've bred damaging her cruciate ligament. She will be seeing a specialist early next week with regards to surgery.

[fido666]

Who are you going to GoldieLover? Just curious if it's Chris Preston or Charles Kuntz (sp?)?????

Duncan is fine for anyone else who is interested, if you saw him running around on my planter boxes you would think he was a cat . They are big sandstone boxes with wide capping stones but it's still hilarious

Cheers,

Corine

[cavNrott]

.

Edited May 8, 2009 by cavNrott

[goldielover]

Hi Corine. The vet has recommended Chris Preston to my puppy people and if he's unavailable it will be Charles Kuntz. I'm waiting for an update.

[fido666]

Hi GL,

Chris took very good care of my boy and went to a lot of trouble to explain the problem he had and the treatment. He even advised me on after care and recommended an excallant canine physio for his rehab. I haven't used CHarles but have met him at a local pet expo, my boy's Physio was there with him also, she does work for them both.

Cheers,

Corine

[bilby]

I've finally read through the whole thread & so, so wish I'd found it earlier .. specially 2 Sundays ago when I freaked out & turned in a complete blubbering mess , deciding that I couldn't take away Bouf's possibly last few months of movement by surgery & confinement ( I KNOW , I know .. totally dumb but I was so so frightened for him).

Bawled down the phone to my dog trainer, Jacquie, who kindly but firmly said that if that was my choice, .. Fine - then I should have him put down rather than condemn him to a life of constant pain. ( She told me later that she really wondered if that would be the end of our friendship .. but she was right & of course I'll be eternally grateful to her).

I'm pretty close to tears right now just wondering where else anyone could find such caring & supportive people than on a Dog owner forum. The English Mastiff forum has also been wonderful with a couple of very very special people in the States emailing me, and loads of tips and help on my query.

Bouf had a TPWO on the bad leg & I'm planning to have the 2nd leg done as soon as recommended. His meniscus on the bad leg is intact which was not expected at all , & I want to try & get the other leg done as soon as to minimuse any damage there. Also I would LOVE it to be in summer ... we've had temperatures of 1 & 2 degrees since Bouf's surgery .. when you haven't had a chance to grab your shoes before answering his urgent call to go out .. that grass is like standing in an ice-block

Reading through, I can't believe how fortunate I am :

- Bouf turns 3 next month , so not a puppy like Mallee, nor an older dog like Chloe

- Completely placid clown dog with an overriding wish to please

- "Inactivity-R-Us" was the joke name for us at training .. no-one was better than Bouf at the "Down" & "Stay" .. hey, that's always been his favourite position.

( Though rolling over on his side and stretching out for a really comfy snooze in the "Sustained Down" apparently isn't the done thing .. never mind .. we were never going competetition anyway)

- Because of his size I've trained him every fortnight since a puppy - for socialising more than for anything else - and because he & I enjoyed it so much. Not the brightest-dog-in-the-kennel, & a bit of a shock to an owner who had had retrievers, Border Collies, & GSD's before ... but though it may take a while, once he's got it .. he never forgets it.

The difficulty I have with him on the on-leash walks is to persuade him that he can move away from my side .. he doesn't move unless I "lead off" .. but does he want to go back in ? does he want a wee ? does he want to go to the "poo place" ?

If I lead off to all 3 of the above options, & make a few false guesses, will I have walked him too far ?

So much more to say ..

but Guess What ? it's time for another outing.

[bilby]

Here's a healing prayer that I love .. seems particularly appropriate for our mutts ...

A Navajo Indian Prayer

O you who dwell In the house made of the dawn,

In the house made of the evening twilight . . .

Where the dark mist curtains the doorway,

The path to which is on the rainbow . . .

I have made your sacrifice.

I have prepared a smoke for you.

My feet restore for me.

My limbs restore for me.

My body restore for me.

My mind restore for me.

My voice restore for me.

Today, take away your spell from me.

Away from me you have taken it.

Far Off from me you have taken it.

Happily I recover.

Happily my interior becomes cool.

Happily my eyes regain their power.

Happily my head becomes cool.

Happily my limbs regain their power.

Happily I hear again.

Happily for me the spell is taken Off.

Happily I walk.

Impervious to pain, I walk.

Feeling light within, I walk . . .

In beauty I walk.

With beauty before me, I walk.

With beauty behind me, I walk.

With beauty below me, I walk.

With beauty all around me, I walk.

It is finished in beauty

Edited August 4, 2006 by bilby

[malleerr]

Hey Bilby,

Hoping that Bouf is feeling a tad better and coming along well, and that you to are feeling ok and coping.

Mallee had a different surgery to Chloe and Bouf, but hopefully Kelly will be along soon to give you some words of wisdom.....

But please yell out if you have any questions for any of us.

Take care

Antoinette and Mallee Moo

P.S. - More pics please - he is just too boutiful

Edited July 30, 2006 by malleerr

[Kelly_Louise]

Hahaha, as always you're right Antoinette!!!

Hi Bilby!!

Poor Bouf... and poor you. It's an agonising time for all. I was like you too Bilby and wondered if putting my girl down was the best thing for her. It bothered me day and night that she could suffer for the rest of her life and be in pain and I would be the cause because I didn't want to let her go. So even though the surgery is expensive, I thought I would give her a chance and see how it went. And I'm so glad I did. Yeah, she's a trooper.... but the change has been utterly remarkable. My brother in law came over on the weekend and couldn't believe it was the same dog. After having both legs done, you could BARELY tell that she has had them. I am just so happy. I have my little girl back and her love of life is back with zest. And hopefully, after having faced such a dark situation and thinking you would have to put your beloved pup to sleep... you will have as good if not better results with Bouf.

It's a looooong road. It's amazingly difficult. Sometimes it feels as if it will never end... or if it does it may end in some time of nervous breakdown. But the results, at the end of it all, just make it all so worthwhile.

In regards to the on/off leash issue... well I'm not sure if I can help. But basically for the first 6 weeks or so Chloe would go on lead for a very small walk around the yard and to do her business. The rest of the time, she is in her pen and either lying down, or if she wants to move around slowly she does. Basically we restricted her space, but if she wanted to move around (the supervision was required to ensure she didn't go silly) we let her. She knew when she was hurting. And she adjusted herself. She told us if she had had enough of her on leash walks around the yard. She would just take herself back into her pen. However, I remember this not being the case the first time around. Chloe didn't like to poo on leash, but quickly learnt there was going to be no other way as there was no other choice other than to not go at all. The second time around it wasn't really necessary as she had sort of adapted to the 'new' way of 'quiet' life. Be patient. Bouf will learn to adjust himself, it just takes time and lots of silent screams!!! He sounds like a very well behaved boy, which will be in your favour... as Chloe has very selective hearing....

Anyways, we are here for support and anything you need... just give us a yell. I found that I needed these guys to vent to as I really felt sometimes I would just lose it, especially with the lack of sleep due to toilet breaks and constant worry. It's a really stressful time. But you guys will be fine and Bouf will benefit greatly. You will notice the difference after one leg, and certainly after the second. It's a great feeling.

ChloBo goes back in a couple of weeks for her xrays. Fingers are crossed. However, again, I have seen the results and I see how she is... and I know that she is on her way. You guys should see her bouncing around. You'd be so proud of her. I bought her a new bed the other day for inside and she loooooves it. She can now get up and down the stairs (slowly and with supervision still though) and is inside much more now... however she loves her little room outside and takes herself off when she has had enough. Oh she's just too lovely and she is just so well. Best $10k I've ever spent!!!

Anyway, could talk about her alllllll day, but I must work. Nice to see the thread is being useful again... and hi Antoinette and MalleeMoo!!! Hope you guys are as happy and healthy as we are!!!

Love to all,

Kel and Chloe

[berly]

Ok, I have just spent the last hour or 2 reading all 20 something pages of this thread. It contained so much useful information, so thanks for playing it out everyone. Makes post op care seem a lot less daunting and maybe even possible!

My 8 year old GSD, Jordan is currently at the vet :D recovering from the surgery for his rear cruciate ligament. I went for the traditional suture method and talked to my vet before and was told the op went very well. I will bring him home on Friday and the long long road to recovery begins.

I've got a crate for him which he has been using for the last couple of days so he is used to it. It's filled with blankets so it's super comfy and it is in his usual hang out area i.e. on the back porch on the other side of large sliding glass doors so I can keep an eye on him and he can still see me so he won't be too distressed. He has never been confined in his whole life and he is not going to be happy when he cottons on that there will be no walking for another couple of months.

From his crate there are quite a few stairs down to the yard to go to the toilet, but I have been assured that stairs are ok as long as he doesn't go helter skelter down them and that I use a sling.

He hasn't been toilet trained either (he's an outside dog), so wait til he finds out there will be no going to the toilet unless he's on the lead... My brother and I have worked out a roster so that at least 1 of us can take him to the toilet and have water every 4 hours or so. 7am, 11am, 3pm, 5:30 (for dinner), 7:30, 11pm and 2 am. I have no idea if this is appropriate.

I am also stocking up on treats, bones etc for him..

My question to the experts? Is there anything I have missed out on? or is there anything I should know? secrets of post op care? etc. etc. I think everything has been covered in the thread but if there are any pointers anyone wants to emphasize, please let me know!

Thanks in advance

[bilby]

Kelly, I'm so enthusiastic about Bouf's surgery since I've read Chloe's outcome - completely committed to getting his 2nd leg done as well. He's been lame on & off since 8 months .. he'll never be Turbo-Dog but I really look forward to him happily slouching alongside without pain in the future. He is such a couch potato .. which is really useful right now.

We went back for suture removal today. The surgeon wasn't happy with the lack of weight-bearing - he should be using the leg 100% after 14 days post-op - but everything else seemed fine. We have to drive an hour to the hospital & Bouf always hops for a little while when he first gets up, so I'm hoping that that was why he wasn't weight bearing. After the exam & consult etc the surgeon came back through the waiting room with us to help me lift Bouf back into the car (( LOL - couldn't believe he did that himself rather than send an underling .. love this man) .. & did say that Bouf seemed to suddenly have no problem with the leg when concentrating on the other dogs in the waiting room.

Bouf's back on anti-inflammatories for the next 14 days though as we suspect he may still have some pain.

berly ... I'm not exactly an expert .. only 10 days ahead of you in this process :D but the area I will be focusing on is the passive physio. Watching my surgeon do it today mdae me realise that my efforts the last few days have been totally pathetic & ineffectual .. I was so scared of breaking the bone or something !

Get someone to show you what to do when you pick Jordan up. No matter how much you read & how much advice over the phone you're given, you need to see it if not already familiar with the practise.

5 - 15 minutes 4 times a day if possible .. otherwise whatever you can do ..

but Bouf had a different procedure ,, so maybe not the same for Jordan ?

Good luck anyways

[bilby]

Oh Antoinette .. a request for more pics ??

Do you realise what you've done ? :D

[Kelly_Louise]

Hehehe, yes we love the pics here... thanks Bilby!!!

Yes the recovery is so exciting once you get over the initial few weeks. I realise Chloe will never be an athlete and we will always be careful with her, but when I think about how far she's come it brings on the tears. I describe her as my special girl and when people ask why I love to tell them as I am so proud of her.

Post op for Chloe she was walking on her first leg straight away (although with the other bung leg she had no choice). The second one she didn't bear full weight (when standing) for a while longer and we were concerned too. But my surgeon says that all dogs are different. I would think there would be more concern if after 3 weeks or so there was still no weight bearing. Some dogs just take a bit longer to adjust. But the first task is over for you, and you've made it to the suture removal!!! Congrats... I find that breaking the post op up into stages gives you a greater sense of accomplishment to get them to each stage. And gives you a smaller task to look forward too!!!

Berly, sounds like you have prepared yourselves well. Chloe was also mainly an outside dog who wasn't used to being restrained at all. I have to admit, overcoming that was the most difficult and she did attempt to break out a few days after surgery. So please be very careful about that if Jordan is anything like Chloe (although we didn't expect it of her at first). She also went a bit crazy being restrained at first, so remember to monitor closely until you can see Jordan is adjusting to new life. Remember it's a big life change for him (and you too!!). Make sure that there are no slippery surfaces anywhere near where he will walk, and if so cover with some mats etc. Go through the routes he will take and make sure there are no hurdles or obstructions. Also make sure that his bed is not too high or he can't get his feet tangled when going into his crate. I know, overly obsessive but better to be safe than sorry. You may also want to look at getting a Pet Step or similar to help Jordan on the stairs or getting into any other place with stairs. Also, if you are going to vet for a check up etc and they have slippery floors, make sure to always have a blanket or mat on hand as they will struggle on slick floors. Otherwise, it will just be a learning curve for you both and with close supervision you will learn what is the best way to keep Jordan happy and safe. Also plan for all situations regarding getting Jordan home safely in the car. The best advice is to make sure EVERYTHING is planned carefully in advance and as many risks as possible are avoided. I don't have much advice on post op for the suture method, as Chloe was originally supposed to have this method but it was advised against due to her weight. I believe (not sure) that you have to be a little more careful with this method... and hopefully Koza will be along and give you some advice on this method as I believe Stella has had one leg with this method. Other than that, I found that Google-ing as much information as possible will help you enormously in confidence and you will know whether you are on the right track or not.

But Bilby and Berly, if you have any questions or fears at all, please don't hesitate to yell out and ask... no matter how silly they may seem. Remember we've been there and the chances are we've asked them too!!!

Hope Bouf continues well on his way to recovery, and best wishes for Jordan's return home and that things go smoothly. Chloe and I will be sending healing thoughts your ways.

Please keep us updated on the progress you guys are making... as we would love to share your experiences as well... as I have been able to.

Lots of love and hugs to the poor babies,

Kel and ChloBo

PS. to Berly... pics are a must!!! I have a soft spot for the GSD's as my man has a most beautiful GSD girl!!!

Edited August 3, 2006 by Kelly_Louise

[malleerr]

Hi All,

Glad you came over and posted Burly. I hope Jordon is going well and that he recovery is well and truely on its way and that all is going OK.

Now that you have also joined into this thread you have to post pics.....its madatory!!!! ;)

My suggestions for coping with the recovery period are pretty much the same as Kel's. In relation to the use of a sling, Mallee had to use the sling for around 4mths and it was not up until about the 3 mth that we were able to do it with only one person, so just be aware that it may take two people to use the sling effectively.....one to control direction and one to hold the sling, esp with a bigger hound. Getting the amount of pressure/weight i found to be the hardest thing, you don't want too much and you don't want too little but hopefully it will not take long to get him or you use to it. In the end Mallee would wait patiently for the sling, and was a tad lost when we no longer required it....would often go up to her towel and either give it a nudge or take it to the back door and wait......lol....so cute....

I also agree with Kelly as to setting your self stages so you can see where things are going. With Mallee, Brock and I would look at things kind of short term instead of long term. We would work in basically 6 week blocks - as that was the breaks in between seeing the surgeon for check ups... It made it easier, for us anyway, to see that things are actually happening (even though the process can seem really really slow) and it gave us something to work towards each time, like the surgeon saying "next time i see her i would like her leg to move this far".........we found it easier that way then just trying to see the long term results. When we got the all clear that Mallee didn't need to go back to see the surgeon for a yaer, we felt so lost and didn't quite know where to go from there or what to do really, it took a while to just take things as they come, but we could not be happier now. Although your recovery time will not be quite as long as Mallee Moos iam sure.

While its a long road to recovery and some times you will doubt your self and your decisions - trust me it is well worth it!!!

Bilby - Bouf is just to die for - he is one spunky hound Mallee would go crazzzzy for him

Thank you for posting the pics - we can never get enough piccys.

Kelly - how are you and ChloBo going. Hope everything is fine. Has she been back to the vets again or am i ahead of myself with that one....i am sure its coming up soon.

Mallee is going along great guns - we are begginning to doubt that they ever actually did anything to her except create some big nasty scars down both her back legs....lol.....if she keeps improving the way she is going there is going to be no stopping her. She already does all the things we were told she would not do again such as, jumping and chasing a ball or stick. I will never forget how i felt when one of the nurses said to me that they weren't even sure if she would walk again....it almost feels like a life time ago.

Although we try to limit these types of behaviours its hard whilst she is only a pup, and we do also feel a tad guilty that she lost so much time out of her puppyhood. Just have to get her back into obedience again.......

Take care all

Special hugs to all the recovering hounds - and specially to Chloe - awww i love her.......

Kel in case you need a Mallee fix here is a pic of her doing what she should not do - being on the new couch..... she knows she is not aloud on it and i was home alone cooking tea in the kitchen obvioulsy, and came in the lounge to find her there - i could not kick her off before i got a pic - she knew it was coming though check out the greaso she is giving.......lol..(sorry not a real good pic - its scanned)