Herding Starters Day

[yogibear]

what exactly do they do with the sheep in an insticnt test

yb

[Sparty]

well i spoke to the lady from lancefield, they are debating on if they will run both days so if ANYONE is serious about going (on the saturday!!!!!!) pm me and i can give you her email (with her permission) to signify your interest, they will have 2 judges there so there is the possibility of getting 2 passes on the day, $10 is the fee if you advise you will attend before hand you should get preferance to those just entering on the day as you would be in the catalogue

[Sparty]

well your dog has to show interest in the sheep wanting to work them, it must obey you on a stop and a recall (doesnt have to be immediate) they do this on a long lead, then if the judge doesnt think your dog will eat the sheep (trying to picture conner with a sheep in his mouth ) you do the same off lead, it took all of 3 minutes for both dogs both times in August.

[superminty]

Hello there, I'm new to this thread. I'm doing the instinct test at Lancefield on Friday 30th with my staffy cross kelpie, got one more practice session with Dave before then. Trying to maximise the herding instinct and minimise the biting one! Anyone going Friday?

[Sparty]

I cant get off work or i would go both days

[superminty]

My Minty

[KismetKat]

Informal recall to me is come to me and stay close enought for me to touch and hold collar no front though cnnor usually sits anyway

Stop means that stop moving  i get a drop or stand when i say stop but am happy with either so long as he stops where he is I teach stop and slow together on our walks sit is to sit but the dog can be away from  you  not sure why we need stop and sit and drop i guess stop could be just to stop fr a second whereas sit for stability and drop for extra control Dave is that anywhere near right

yb

Thanks yb.

I must admit my own experience of herding trials was back in the early 90s. We used to go regularly to the "show" at my husbands home town (he's a country boy) and they would have trials there - but the competitors were laconic local farmers and it would be their one and only comp of the year. There seemed very little in the way of commands - just the odd tilt of the head and the occasional whistle. It was amazing to watch these dogs as what they were meant to do was quite complicated - from memory they had to split the flock, send one lot up a race, and then pen another.

In the late 90s the show stopped having the trials - I don't know why.

I must admit I am beginning to feel a bit intimidated by the 'beginners' day. My dog is good on recall but is fascinated by sheep - I suspect the distraction would be too much that recall may not be effective. I've never used 'stop' - but she knows "sit" and "drop" - but have never tried these 'on the run" (as it were).

Perhaps this 'beginners' day is too advanced?

I am not seriously contemplating herding - just thought it would be a fun day out and maybe a 'channel' for my dogs fixation with farm animals (particularly sheep).

[yogibear]

nah beginners day will be perfect there were a couple of non recalls on sunday

even connor looked at me and i had to drop him instead to regain control lol

One dog had a shakey recall but still went really well Daves very good he will let you kno what you need to do and you have to start somewhere

yb

[wagalot]

hello every one

i will be there with my boy he is a blk tri aussie with a tail and we have been having lessons for about 2 mths now.

can't wait this will be new to me as well as alot fun with my dog, i am really injoying herding and i think cooper is loving it

cheers sam

if any one is going look out for me and come and say hello

[mjk05]

I can't do Left and Right- keep forgetting to reverse it when the dog's the opposite side of the sheep to me, and then when we're in the yards, and the dogs and sheep are somewhere completely different, I get totally confused

I use Round for clockwise, Back for anticlockwise (started the other way, but had to reverse them when I started working other people's dogs- no wonder my poor kelpie is so confused).

Also Walk-up to come straight in (in a controlled manner, eg at obstacles), Push-up for just coming in to force (eg in yards), Steady to slow them down, Get Out to move them out wider on a flank, Get-off to make them reverse in a straight line, Speak for bark, Hop-up for backing and Right-up (or Up-Front) to send them up a long race. I use Over (Get Over) in yards to tell dog to jump a fence.

Stop means stop- some dogs stand, some drop. I also tell dogs to drop or Lie Down if I REALLY want a lie down, and a Wait There tells them to chill out and hold their position (eg in yards). That'll Do is my finished-work signal. I also use Come Here to pull the dog towards me at obstacles etc. Most of our training is done on livestock- so dogs learn Stop by being blocked from moving- when they stop, they can go back to work. I did teach reverse (Get-Off) and walk-up to one of my city dogs at home- we used the garden hose, which he's obsessed with. I also started teaching his flanking commands and Get-Out with the rake in one hand and the hose in the other

You don't need any of these commands for the basic herding tests. My friends' dogs had seen sheep once before their test days, and they went straight through HIC/HT/PT without any training. They had basic obedience, so the dogs had a basic recall and stop (sit or drop)- but no sheep experience.

From what I've seen of the herding tests- the HIC really only tests 2 things- interest (even if they only look up from eating sheep poo half the time), and that your dog won't kill the sheep. Oh, and a TINY bit of control/relationship between you and dog.

The HT looks for your dog wanting to move the sheep purposefully somewhere- doesn't even have to be towards you, they can drive or push the sheep along the fence.

The PT asks for a dog with a little more control (stop, wait, recall) but its totally feasible to do it with little/no training.

Having said that, I think its very wise to have a lesson or two on sheep before your first test- more for the handler, to make them less panicked. But the ANKC tests on their own are a nice introduction through the stages of starting a new dog.

I just wish we had MORE of them in my area (its so far been the same couple of hard working people running all the tests). Good fun!

[Sparty]

beginners day or lancefield day? wagsalot?

[KismetKat]

YB - thanks - I feel a bit better. My dog, when she has seen sheep, tends to be ultra quiet and very intent (and pulls on the lead a lot!). But I also suspect she has some terrier in her - and can be quite excitable. She is ALL over anyone who comes to the house - but after about 5 mins she stops bouncing off walls and is perfectly calm. So maybe after a short time of embarrassing me, she might just settle down (tho I don't know if she will start the 'bouncing' with sheep - her one interaction with one was to lick it on the nose and wag her tail! But hey, maybe that was just a taste test?

Would it be a good idea to try drops and sits when she is on the run? Drops have been an ongoing issue with her - she knows what it means but just couldn't be bothered unless a treat is involved (in which case she sets a speed record for flinging herself to the ground). I've spent the last month really concentrating on this at mealtimes - and she is getting a lot better - but just can't imagine her, being some distance from me, responding to a 'drop" command at this stage.

[Sparty]

lol just dont expect the drop/stop to work instantly on sheep it is so new and overwhelming it is hard for them to concentrate YB's Conner is very very good with obedience and has been working in preydrive before. just dont expect too much right away enjoy the day without expectations

[mjk05]

Would it be a good idea to try drops and sits when she is on the run? Drops have been an ongoing issue with her - she knows what it means

I seriously wouldn't bother- my competition obedience dog (who has excellent positions on signals, drop on recall, etc) is the one ratbag dog who won't stop on sheep... And a friend's dog (almost an Obedience Champion) was completely feral her first few times on sheep So you can't expect anything to hold when they first get on sheep.

The pups seem to pick commands up really quickly when they are taught on sheep. Just makes more sense to them then, I think.

If you want to practice something, I'd work on short recalls and sits beside you in distracting environments- maybe the middle of the dogpark etc.

[Sparty]

YB i think the stop/drop is also to take the pressure off the sheep when the sheep are moving nicely i can put Bodie in a stop to calm things down and slow the sheep, also i dont want the sheep up my bum while im trying to open the gate so putting a stop in is handy in that instance

Also once you have got the sheep you dont want the dog trying to get in balance with you as you try to shut the gate and scaring them out again

[KismetKat]

Thanks guys - I feel so much better! I was so worried I should pull out cos me and my dog would seem dropkicks and totally non suited to the task. But I know she's a smart dog and would love to see her to just have a chance (with patience) to see if she is up to the task.

I will do some work over the summer break from dog school practising more in distracting environments -in fact I am already doing that cos at times she gets very distracted at the dog park (mainly by possum smells) and after advice from DOLers have found a squeeker toy a handy thing to have in my handbag.

[Sparty]

LOL if David can get my Kira interested in sheep, she has been known to take a nap while in the pen!!! he is really helpful and knows how best to get a dog off and running

[nickyp]

KismetKat,

she's a smart dog and would love to see her to just have a chance (with patience) to see if she is up to the task.

That's exactly why I took my kelpiexACD, Emmylou along. And I was concerned that she'd behave like a complete nutter - and she did. But in that nuttiness you can see the instinct working and that's the really great thing. Like hannahb's dog, Emmy needs to reduce the urge to bite and increase the interest in actually herding the sheep.

Emmy & I & my kelpiexGSD, Indi, will be at the next one, so there'll be plenty of feral behaviour going on. Indi is also a smart dog, but prone to airheadedness and has a softer temp than Emmy, so gets afraid if I'm as firm with her as I need to be with Em. The only thing I've ever seen her concentrate fully on is chasing rabbits. Having seem Emmy with sheep, I want to see if she is also up to the task.

[yogibear]

hi Kk

Pretty much though a lot of your previous trianing dissapears in th pen anyway but i think when you get control in that environment your dog will be the better for it in other environments too if i can recall connor off sheep then calling him in the park wll be a cinch

connor will drop anywhere anytime but he has been taught in drive and we have had occassions of what mum dont know that one. His rcall which is usually very good went awol in the sheep pen he would look at me lick his lips come away from the sheep but all the way to me he was worried the game would be over but think of the rcall you will have once your dog will come off sheep.

yb

[dogdayz]

KK, the beginners day will be fine for you - i took two rescue pups to the last one and they dont even know their names, much less recall and sit/drop. On the upside my collie rough always had really bad recall until she started herding - the benefit of training with the ultimate distraction.