Best Sheep For Training

[kelpiecuddles]

OK first off I would like to say that I am not going out tomorrow to buy sheep

I spent most of Sunday watching the herding at Spring Fair and I am completely hooked. One of the blokes there suggested to me that the best way to train ongoing would be to get three or four sheep (or ducks but I can't stand them) to train with. It has also occured to me that as I am about to move onto ten acres I will actually have the space to do this once I'm ready.

So I'm just wondering what breed of sheep is best? I would imagine that any breed that is used for wool production would require more shearing and this would be something I would have to have done elsewhere. So is there a breed that is fairly quiet without too much wool? Happy to spend slightly more if it means that I get a breed that suits my needs/lifestyle. I love the look of Suffolks with their black faces, but I'm not sure how much shearing they need.

[Allerzeit]

I have no idea about their suitability over other breeds for training dogs, but there are some sheep breeds that naturally shed their wool, removing some of the hassles involved in keeping sheep (shearing, crutching, flystrike).

Some of the shedding breeds are Dorper, White Dorper, Wiltshire Horn and Wiltipoll.

Our neighbours across the road have both Dorper and Wiltshire Horn sheep - the Dorper's are gorgeous with their jet black heads and white bodies.

We only have silly Merino's and a few South Suffolk. The Suffolk need just as much shearing as a Merino - once a year they get shorn and in between they need to be crutched. They produce less wool than the Merino and the wool is worth next to nothing.

I'll stop rambling now I lurve sheep

[dogbesotted]

wiltshire horn sheep...shed their fleece no shearing at all

[sidoney]

Vickie was saying that hair sheep tend to be lighter (move off the dog more readily) than fleece sheep too ... Vickie?

Edited November 21, 2005 by sidoney

[Allerzeit]

Ohhh, interesting. Yeah - Vickie - where are ya?

I would love to take Abby across the road and see how she went with the neighbours sheep. Just have to convince the neighbours that they really need Abby to help them LOL!

[fidelis Border Collies]

when getting sheep you also have to decide how much training you will do on them as the more you do with the sheep the more dog broke they get and may need changing.

If you get the damaras they are lighter and will stay lighter for a long time, but they also flock together well so your dog doesn't learn to gather sheep.

Black face sheep tend to be harder on the dogs and may be too hard for a novice dog.

Merino's are easier to get cheaper but tend to get heavy quickly, need shearing and are more prone to worms etc.

You could maybe get damaras and some geese, Geese graze like sheep but are excellent to train on more more like sheep then ducks and are more hardy.

Just my thoughts

Tracey

[sidoney]

I would worry about geese particularly with a young dog as they are so prone to violence. At least my mother's are.

[reddog21]

Now this is sheep training

A Sheep Story

>

> >A farmer buys several sheep, hoping to breed them for wool. After

> >several weeks, he notices that none of the sheep are getting pregnant

> >and phones the vet for help. The vet tells him that he should try

> >artificial insemination. The farmer doesn't have the slightest idea

> >what this means and asks the vet to elaborate. The vet tells the farmer

> >that he will have to inseminate them himself. The farmer asks the vet

> >how he will know when the sheep are pregnant. The vet tells him that

> >they will stop standing around and instead will lie down and wallow in

> >grass when they are pregnant.

> >

> >The man hangs up and gives it some thought. He comes to the conclusion

> >that he has to impregnate the sheep. So, he loads the sheep into his

> >Land Rover, drives them out into the bush, has s* x with them all,

> >brings them back and goes to bed. The next morning, he wakes and looks

> >out at the sheep. Seeing that they are all still standing around, he

> >deduces that the first try didn't take, and loads them in the Land Rover

> >again. He drives them out to the back paddock, bangs each sheep twice

> >for good measure, brings them back and goes to bed.

> >

> >The next morning, he wakes to find the sheep still just standing around.

> >One more try, he tells himself, and proceeds to load them up and drive

> >them out to the far paddock. He spends all day shagging the sheep and

> >upon returning home, falls listlessly into bed. The next morning, he

> >cannot even raise himself from the bed to look at the sheep. He asks

> >his wife to look out and tell him if the sheep are lying in the grass.

> >"No," she says, they're all in the Land Rover and one of them is beeping

> >the horn."

[purplepulse]

[herding_guy]

I run damara x merinos and merinos the damara is a hair sheep and sheds its coat once a year after 2 - 3years of age. THe damara flock tightly but not when crossed with the merino. Suffolks are not a good sheep to train dogs with - they don't flock that well and can be a little hard on dogs. Dorsets are also pretty good to train with but they need shearing.

Shearing is not such a problem you can get someone in to do it annually for a small fee - and you'd be surprised as to how many ex shearers you may have living around you.

I'm very happy with the damara cross merino but I will also be buying in some dorset crosses as well.

[sidoney]

What are Corriedale like?

[kelpiecuddles]

I like the sound of your mutt sheep herding guy can I ask where you picked them up? I think you are out in the area I will be moving to, Gisborne, not far from Tulla?

[herding_guy]

I like the sound of your mutt sheep herding guy can I ask where you picked them up? I think you are out in the area I will be moving to, Gisborne, not far from Tulla?

Mutt sheep - I like that

I was very lucky to find them - don't know where you can get any though.

How long will it be until your my neighbour?

Some of ours are in lamb now or have already had lambs (7) - it might be possible for you to get them of me if time is right. I'll send you some pics later.

Dave

[kelpiecuddles]

Well I'll be moving down in a month but I'd have to talk to the guy that owns the property and see if he'd let me agist them as I don't own the place (and I'm not paying rent either so I think it's only fair that I ask him first), otherwise I might agist them somewhere else. I'll be coming to the doggy school at Tulla, I have a feeling you're associated with them???

[kelpiecuddles]

Damaradoodles

[mjk05]

I've heard that hair sheep stay light for longer, too. 2 potential disadvantages though- they might be too light for a young inexperienced dog initially, and if you have any serious wool production around your place, you might be quite unpopular with your neighbours for running hair sheep.

We've worked some Dorpers and Dorper-crosses, and haven't noticed much difference, and the "dogged" Dorpers are definitely heavier than the farm merinos.

If you are serious about some training, you will probably need more than 3 or 4 sheep- I think they'd get very tame very quick. Maybe 20, so you can take 5 off at a time to work? I know some people who keep 20-30 sheep just to train dogs, and they do turn them over fairly frequently to keep them fresh. Unusual breeds are more expensive- So you might be better off with merinos or crossbreds which are cheap and easily available, and turn them over more often.

If you're near town, you could probably ask friends out to train, and as for small contributions to sheep upkeep.

The other consideration with sheep breeds, I guess, should be your conditions (wet, boggy, dry, types of feed available) and which breeds will cope best with that. I'll ask the resident farmer what he thinks about suitable breeds when he gets home tonight.

Regardless of the breed, you will probably need someone with trained dogs to come and "dog them down"for you, to make life easier for your young dog initially. Its hard to start training on undogged sheep.

Its easy to find someone to help you with sheep maintenance- especially if you have friends in the sheepdog world. There are professionals who will come out and shear/crutch/do feet etc for a moderate fee- but you might be able to get someone to do it as a favour, or for a carton of beer etc. My BF has done a bit of that for friends- need to have wel-maintaind gear, though.

My new favourite breed are Karakul- the neighbouring farm has them, and OMG they are gorgeous- SO cute as lambs. They also flock tightly- even when grazing, the merinos and crosses spread out all over the place, while the Karakuls stay in a bg mob. I've heard they can be tough on dogs, but haven't worked any.

Edited November 23, 2005 by mjk05

[kelpiecuddles]

Ok so I'm formulating a theory here. If I can decide on the best breed for me I may think about purchasing a small mob and finding somewhere to agist them. I will have a 6X4 trailer with a cage and canopy so I can transport three or four at a time to train (ie. so that I could leave gates set up at the place I'll be living and then just swap sheep in on a rotation basis so that they get a break from the dog)

I don't think there's much in the way of sheep properties around there, seemed mostly to be small hobby farms with horses, etc.

So what I would need to work out would be - what type of sheep I want: I was thinking that maybe a mixed mob might work, that way I can start with the quieter breeds and then work up to the more difficult ones and then go on to herding all of them at once, once she's a proper clever sheepie herding dog So herding guys Damara and X's sound good and then maybe a few merinos as an easier breed aand maybe a few of something else.

Herding guy probably knows more about the area than I do but from the one time that I've been there it seemed very green but without being soggy, if that makes sense. Plenty of feed on the ground. It's on the outskirts of Melbourne if that gives you an idea of climate.

As far as upkeep goes obviously I won't have any of the gear myself unless I come across some cheap second hand, but I'm always willing to learn how to do feet, etc. I have just learnt in the last few months how to pick a horses feet and brush one properly and I rode bareback for the first time yesterday!

[mjk05]

10 acres- you'd probably have space to keep them all at your place, would be MUCH easier, I imagine.

Do you have cleared paddocks, or just one big area? Fencing OK? You might want to look at buying some mobile yards, so you can set up a round pen to start with, and then you can use the panels for obstacles later on (when you're trialling )

I dont know much about Damara, but Dorpers are quite expensive (purebred). Crossbreds are much cheaper- but they will need shearing, so you lose that advantage.

I've just been thinking about it- and if you're just starting out, and haven't done much yet with your pup, probably the best plan is to wait until she's well started at training classes/clinics, and then talk to people with working dogs around your area. You might well be able to buy some sheep from them to start with, and then decide exactly what you need.

Ducks or chooks could also be a great starting idea. I know people who've done most of their basic training on chooks- teaching sides, stop, walk up, get off etc. Really, as long as you have something the dog will focus on, you can do a lot of training off sheep. One of my dogs has learnt a lot of his work from "working" the garden hose. Apparently ducks can encourage dogs to work a bit close, and chooks can be difficult because they don't "flock".

As far as upkeep goes obviously I won't have any of the gear myself

What I wrote didn't come out right- I was trying to say, you won't need any gear, but anyone you get to help will need well maintained equipment- so often its easier to just hire someone. OR... sell them off before they need anything done. I get too attached to sheep, lovely animals... I'd have trouble selling any. In fact, I'm supposed to be taking the pups out to do some training this arvo, but the training mob are also the "killers", and one of them is going to die for dog meat tonight. I don't think I can face them now, knowing that

The riding sounds fun- wish I had more time...

[BubbleGirl]

From going out to Herding with Vickie, I can guarantee that sheep get use to it and in the end the dogs don't have to work them as the sheep just follow you.

They are selling and buying new ones out where we go so you'd need to keep that in mind ie. after some time have to sell and buy knew ones.

Re breeds, leave that up to those who are in the know

Love

Riles

[kelpiecuddles]

It's not my property which is why I wouldn't be able to keep them there. The guy has horses agisted on it so I could probably squeeze three or four sheep in but 20-30 might be pushing it

I wasn't planning on getting them until Sascha was more advanced but herding guys lambs might be about the right size by the time I'm able to practice with Sascha on her own.

We do have chooks and she trys to herd them but I don't know how to train her to do it properly. Luckily my chooks do tend to flock as there are only five and they've grown up together.

I'm like you, wouldn't be able to sell or kill them so they have to be something I'm happy to keep till their old age