Murray The Wonder Dog

[Kelpie-i]

Very interesting thread...hope you don't mind if I add my 20c worth.

Along with ADT, there are many other schools/clubs out there with qualifed and certified instructors who are paid to work. These instructors are paid because of their knowledge, experience and certification and the school wants to make sure that the person standing in front of the class can do more than just teach a dog to sit and drop. For this reason, the client pays a higher fee.

I've known many dogs who have been "kicked out" of their volunteer run clubs because the instructor couldn't help with the problem. It was much easier to give them their marching orders. In a way I say Thank God, because I'd hate to see the sort of advice given to the owner by an unqualified "trainer".

The old saying.....pay peanuts, get monkeys still rings true in many cases.

But as Erny says, if you are achieving results by attending a volunteer club, then fantastic - no one is going to argue with that. However, please remember that not all dogs are sociable, controllable and easily trained. The owners of these dogs require expert tuition and guidance from a qualified individual and this certainly comes at a price.

[yogibear]

hi Mel

Dnt i know it the amount of help i have given people for free and then they come back after paying someone for the same info and rave about the person lol

yb

[Erny]

This is true, to an extent, YB. Although I guess you could look at it in reverse, to a degree, too. Those that join ADT do so not just because they like its training and socialisation concepts and the help they know they will receive, but also BECAUSE they're enthusiastic to come to training. It probably works both ways.

There are other clubs too, who sell limited time courses. You might pay for "x" weeks, but if you miss any of those weeks, :D .

With ADT's system, it makes no difference (other than perhaps to slow the progress of your dog's training) .... you don't lose and don't end up having to pay for more lessons to make up for those you couldn't attend. There's no yearly fees either.

And if something were to happen to one's dog (heaven forbid ... we hope it doesn't) there is a transfer policy too, if the owner has acquired a new dog to replace it and wants to train.

There's also discounts for a person's second dog.

[yogibear]

you forgot one thing the other nights training if i was to join a couple of other clubs so i could train on more days i'd have spent over three hundred a year for training thast one year

yb

[Erny]

Dnt i know it the amount of help i have given people for free and then they come back after paying someone for the same info and rave about the person lol

:D It's happened to me too, YB.

OT, but sometimes if it's free information, people don't seem to credit it very much. When they pay for it, it's worth something and they take more heed. I think that's human nature as it happens not just in the dog training world.

[yogibear]

nah whast worse is when you help someone train ther dog turn it around and then they go and charge people for lessons using the info you taught them lol

yb

[Erny]

:D They charge to train someone else's dog on the basis of only the knowledge they have from having been taught how to train their own (one) dog? And that's the limit of their experience?

[Erny]

you forgot one thing the other nights training if i was to join a couple of other clubs so i could train on more days i'd have spent over three hundred a year for training thast one year

Thanks YB ... I did forget to mention this.

[Alison]

Please don't get me wrong. I am not saying that a good qualified trainer isn't worth every cent that they charge. What I am saying is that I would NEVER pay up front for a trainer for lifetime or 3 months. I believe that a trainer should prove themselves worthy each week in order to get me to come back the following week.

[haven]

Some people might consider $610 to be a lot of money especially without actually seeing how ADT runs and what they offer. Personally I was shocked when I joined up with my GSD, I was expecting it to be around $2000

What you pay for is a standard of training rather than a set number of lessons. It covers all of the training centres we have, currently 7 in VIC with another to open in the new year and of course any that open in the future.

I was happy to join ADT, not only because I consider it to be cheap for a lifetime of training to the highest standard, but because I couldn't find any other school or club that would take us. I was turned away from every club in the eastern suburbs area and even told by a very respected behaviourist (after spending close to $800) that he was a lost cause, not worth the effort and I would be better off to put him to sleep :D

I am not the only person in this situation either, a number of ADT members joined with us because they were turned away from or asked to leave other clubs because their dog has excitability, aggression or fear issues.

I trained at Springvale today and there was a Rottweiler who had previously trained with the Rotti club. It has serious aggression issues and has put a number of other dogs in hospital apparently. The Rotti club kicked him out. With the expert guidance of the usual trainers at Springvale, that hardly even looks at another dog in class these days. Seeing the qualified behaviourist and getting one on one training every week for his issues has come at NO EXTRA COST.

This afternoon I trained at Boronia and in my advanced class was a 15 year old dog who has been training with ADT since 8weeks of age.

Some might think $610 for a lifeime of advanced level obedience and a socialization program that includes agility, food and command refusal and dog to dog work plus free access to a behaviourist to be a lot of money, but I believe we have upward of 5000 members last time I checked and I'm sure they would disagree

Edited December 4, 2005 by haven

[Herr Rottweiler]

When I first joined ADT, (1992) the course I had chosen to undertake then cost me in excess of $1000. At first I thought it was expensive and unaffordable and i was better off going back to the non profit school I trained my German Shepherd at. I'm glad I didn't and IMHO, it was the BEST $1000+ I have ever invested. Boyd Hooper who is my current Boss and very good friend is arguably one of the best in his field, especially in canine pshychology. When I look back at the cruddy little, one eyed schools I went to before I joined ADT I have a good laugh. I believe I learned more in a year with ADT than I did in 5 years of some of the "other" schools.

Naturally, I was so impressed with ADT that I did the NDTF course and bacame an instructor. At the end of 1993 I was working full time for ADT and over the many years I have worked for them I have signed 1000's of new members. I and my fellow instructors aren't paid commision by joining members, we do it because we believe in the system and we know it works.

As many others have said in this thread, "You get what you pay for" If it's budget training you want, please don't consider ADT. We have a list of some finest dog trainers in Australia and some fantastic new talent emerging.

This is ADT's 20th year of Professional Dog Training in Australia. We'll be around for quite some time and our doors are always open to any dog with any issue.

Good thread guys :D

[yogibear]

Hi anne

I am really looking forward to meeting you guys when we start summer school

Alison i understand what you are saying when i wanted to put cgc on my dog the only place doing it was charging an upfront fee i think it was a fifty dolar private to assess the dog the 120 for the ten week course i nearly choked as my dog was well past that level but the trainer would not just let us get certified and as the rainer was not proven to be anything special i wasnt reccomending people go to her .

What adt are doing though i think makes sense if you go along to club you have a good idea of what you want in as fa as level say basic well behaved dog well socialised. You are paying for a structured course with professionals whose job t is to get you their.

When you go to a vounteer run club each instructor has a different set of values one may think its important to have straight sits and close tight heeling another may think loose lead is ok because they dont rial so although your thinking well behaved pet half your class is thinking trial dog others agility others the same as you. Also when you throw in a dog with issues the instructor who may have trained a quiet lab or smal white fluffy but never handled a big gsp thats hypo doesnt understand who and why that dog is doing what it does

I listent to classes all the time and watch instructors ignore the ones who need the most help too hard or give wrong information based on wat they think they are seeing

Two of my dogs were dubbed untrainable one i was told was way to aggressive by club instrucotrs both dogs went on to become happy relaxed companions both competed in ud and agility the instructors at the clubs just didnt understand the dogs

then there is the issue of instructors taking on dogs wit issues when they arent experenced enough to help them and stuff he whole thing up because they wanted to help.

If you know where you want to get your dog and you pay upfront for the course then you aremaking a commitment to doing the course and to training your dog to that level when things get tough or you hit a road block you have professionals in the wings to help you get going again they will encourage you as it is their goal to see you reach your goal and if you give up im sure youwould get a call to see if all is ok you stop going to cub for three months noone rings to ask if they can do anything to help

yb

[yogibear]

Hi HR

I still havent been over to check you guys out ive spent years surfing the cubs asking questions and talking to instructors the best club i found would have been ALpha Geg was so accomadating let us take photos of his puppy agility took us to each class and explained what tey did loved his socialisation class apart from ADT i dont thnk many do that typ of thing he was coplimentary and open and even invited us to an instructor bbq to talk training

Of the community clubs i have yet to find one that has a real community feel that is thnking outside the squre or rectangle as they seem to have trial stuck in their heads.

What i want is someone to open a training centre like in the states where you book an area they have all the equipment facilitys to video your work and cds for noise distractio and maybe have two areas side by side so you get the distraction of other dogs somewhere where you can go to trian your dog not b instructed lol maybe i need to buy a property with a big shed

yb

[Alison]

If it's budget training you want, please don't consider ADT. We have a list of some finest dog trainers in Australia and some fantastic new talent emerging.

Please do not think for one second that I want anything less than the best for my girl. I just wouldn't bet $610 on the nose of ADT to be suitable to train my girl for the rest of her life. Like I said before, I like that my trainer has to prove her worthiness to me each and every week.

Also, just a question, is ADT a privately owned business? If so, what is to stop the owner from selling it, and the new owner lowering the standards, and then everyone is left with dud memberships? I am not saying this is going to happen. I am just wondering if it could happen.

[Cheyenne_Fury]

Hi Alison,

ADT to have a cancellation policy if you are not happy with the level of training etc. within a certain time frame you recieve a certain amount of the fees back. I am not sure on the exact time frame and percentage refunded though.

I am not sure if ADT is privately owned, but I think that it would be. I suppose that there is the potential risk for the company to be sold and the standards lowered, but I think that risk would be very minimal.

The reason that ADT have the introductory information session and the reason people take their dogs to this as well as after all the information is given. A qualified trainer has a chat to you about what you want to achieve and about any problems etc. that you may be having with your dog. He "assesses" the dog taking into consideration the age of the dog, level of training you want to achieve, any behavioural problems and if the dog has had any previous training and then is given a score out of ten. My dog Murray got a 7 because we have a few issues that we need to work through. Then all this info is put together and everything taken into consideration and a price is given for the training that you want to achieve. $610 is a lot of money, but from what I can gather from the information given on this price this was to do advanced obedience (highest level with amazing results if the dog and handler put in the hard work) and the puppy was 8 weeks old, so I would imagine (without being able to be 100% sure) that this price would have included the puppy preschool classes for pups up to 18weeks, Novice obedience, Young Dogs (Basic Obedience), Control Obedience, Advanced Obedience and also socialisation. If you look at the life span of the dog say 10 years. (Hopefully much more than this but just using 10 as an example) $610 over 10 years is $61 per year spent on training with free access to behaviourists during that time and also no limit on the amount of training sessions attended during that time. $61 per year is pretty cheap in my opinion, but of course not for everyone.

Just my opinion.

Anne

[yogibear]

If you have a dog with issues then i would always reccomend a private trianer or club that has proven itself in that area you will pay for the service but at least you will be put on the right track

If you have a willling easy going dog then where you trian doesnt really matter its amatter of where you choose. there is no way id recommend someone take an aggressive or a fearful or nervous dogto a local club without being under the instruction of a professional first

yb

[Erny]

I would imagine (without being able to be 100% sure) that this price would have included the puppy preschool classes for pups up to 18weeks, Novice obedience, Young Dogs (Basic Obedience), Control Obedience, Advanced Obedience and also socialisation.

Spot on, Anne .... the top price of $610.00 covers all levels necessary and appropriate for the dog to reach and achieve "Advance" level skill status, and also includes socialisation which runs parallel with the dog's training.

Alison:   what is to stop the owner from selling it, and the new owner lowering the standards, and then everyone is left with dud memberships?

This could happen with any service and/or course you would ever venture to take up in your lifetime. It's a matter of weighing things up and sussing out what you believe are risks. ADT celebrates its 20th year this year, so its history does not depict a "here today, gone tomorrow" pattern. It has changed hands in its history, but it's the trainers/instructors that are employed by it that matter .... not the ownership behind the organisation.

But you're right .... it could happen. As it could for any other such courses etc. where you are required to pay a once off fee. It's a matter of you being comfortable or not. If not, then people are free to chose elsewhere.

ADT simply offer the services and are happy to explain them and show them. We want our clients to be happy and comfortable with us .... not sweating on the (unlikely) possibilities of what might go wrong.

Edited December 5, 2005 by Erny

[crazy beagle lady]

Hi Anne,

I spent 3 months researching what i thought would be the RIGHT Club for my Beagle Boys, Every week we drive past Moorabbin, Bentleigh, Brighton, Cheltenham and the list goes on....all the way down the Southern Obediance in Bangholme. You know your dog, you know yourself and most of all you know both of your strengths and weaknesses. Good on you for finding a club that works for you and Murray, I know the first time i saw my evil beagle running free at southern that we had finally found the right place for him. I dont think it would be possible to learn in an environment that you are not comfortable in, so good on you, glad to hear that your darling boy and you are getting the help you need (after all- beagles are a very special breed- as are the owners!) im estatic for you both, keep in mind i have been told by soooo many trainers that beagles are damm near untrainable- not true, If we can make it to begginers level 5 then anything is possible I look forward to hearing your updates.

Tam and beagle boys!

[Cheyenne_Fury]

Hey Tam

Yep I am extremely proud of my naughty beagle boy Murray. You are right beagles are a very special breed and I have had people tell me that I won't have much luck training him, but so far so good. He is a typical beagle but we have a major motivator FOOD as if you couldn't guess and I am really pleased with his progress. I am not expecting miracles, just want to be able to enjoy my dog and for him to be happy and we are more than pleased with ADT if you couldn't guess from my previous posts. I'm down past Hastings and we go to Berwick which is about 1/2 hr or more drive, but it is well worth it and the money we paid to go to ADT.

Anne

[wyvernblade]

We'll be moving to Lang Lang early next year and I'll be attending Berwick ADT. I think the drive and the money will be worth it! I'm hoping to get to a K9 Force workshop too next year when he comes back to Vic, AND i'm hoping to do the NFDT course next May, so look out doggies! You're in for a busy year! LOL