Murray The Wonder Dog

[BubbleGirl]

WOW sounds awesome :D

I know with most clubs there is a once off joining fee, an annual yearly fee and then ground fees each week, can you please advise what these are?

Seeing as I'm moving to Melbourne I'm DEFINATELY looking for a good dog club.

Take Care

Riles

[Alison]

Thanks Cheyenne, sorry, but just to get this right, if I wanted to go to advanced, I would have to pay for at least 3 months up front? I like the idea of my trainer having to work each week to get me to come back the next week. I dont like the idea of paying for 3 months or lifetime in advance. Lets just say I wanted to do the package you did, and had no obedience experience at all, what would that package cost? Thanks.

[BubbleGirl]

Fantastic question Alison, I'm keen to know as it sounds perfect for Rosie and I when we move :thumbsp:

Take Care

Riles

[wyvernblade]

I went to the Berwick centre yesterday for the First Timers class (Didn't take dog tho, just wanted to find out more about it) I was impressed with the way they are structured and the different options they offer, altho they don't train for competition level which is what I'd like to do. Fo what I was looking at which was the Socilisation class and Advanced it is $610. If you pay before xmas it's a discount of $480. I'm currently a member of the GSDCV and you pay a yearly fee then a couple of dollars each time you go . I estimate it would take me three years there to spend as much as ADT charge. And for someone who wants only basic type training (well behaved family pet) It would seem quite pricey. However having said that, I will be trying to join before xmas to get the discount as I think it looks like a great club and I like what they offer. They didn't tell me about the different price depending on the dog's assessment tho? How does that work?! The lower the score the more you pay, or what? How do they work out assessments of puppies at 8 weeks then? Hmmm have to ask a few more questions. I would recommend anyone to go and have a look and a listen if they are interested.

[Alison]

$610 sure seems pricey. What if you dont like it a few weeks down the track? Do they offer a refund?

Edited to add: $610 dollars would buy me 8.5 years training once a week at my local club :D and that includes, agility, socialisation, etc, etc.

Edited December 4, 2005 by Alison

[BubbleGirl]

I'm sorry but $610 dollars :D

I'd not like to be held into a life time membership for that much money, people move and lives change, that and what if you aren't happy

You can get 5 classes with K9Force for $575 dollars and at the end of that he has the dog perfect if you put in the work as the owner.

Sorry I still can't believe a dog club membership costs $610 dollars

Take Care

Riles

[yogibear]

you have to remeber that a club like hastings is volunteer run aDT pay their instructors who are in turn certifieied and i dare say expected to go to seminars to keep up to date..

volunteer clubs are great but whether you will always get a knowledgable instructor is another thing and many really dont understand dogs other than their own.

Having said that i have no idea of the level of the instructors at ADt except they are ndtf certified.

I go to a volunteer club i dont do classes because i dont train the way the club reccomends and i dont like the way the classes are ahndled i train on my own it costs me thirty a year to join and three dollars a week i go say 40 weeks a year so this year i spent $140 dollars on training and what am i getting a ground and some distractions lol

i have been in the game for fifteen years so i have spent over 1500 dolars on going to dog club for no instruction just to use equipment lol

yb

[BubbleGirl]

I'm sorry Yogi but NO club is worth a membership of $610, unless of course you live in Double Bay, Sydney.

Think I'll keep researching for a new club for when I move.

Take Care

Riles

[Alison]

Im pretty sure that the trainers at my local club do go to seminars etc. The point I am trying to make, is that if I don't feel they are training to the standard I expect, I can leave without loosing $600+

[yogibear]

well from what ive heard people are paying it i know people who spend thougsands on dog training i guess the questions to ask would be what percentage are successful in achieving the level they wanted at both types of clubs.

I agree 610 is a lot but then i guess if your getting results is it as you said k9 charges over fve hundred for five lessons eople are happy to pay t because they get results

So in the past two years how many poeple joined the club then each year how many left how many got the result they wanted how many stayed becasue they just love the whole outing.

there are people charging forty to sixty dollars a private lesson people pay it why

yb

[BubbleGirl]

I agree 610 is a lot but then i guess if your getting results is it as you said k9 charges over fve hundred for five lessons eople are happy to pay t because they get results

Sorry but K9Force is well renowned for REAL problem dogs, he can turn an aggresive dog around in one lesson, BIG difference to joining a club.

I think you summed it up well:

"if people are happy to pay because they get the results"

there is a difference between a reasonable amount and being ripped off, any dog club comfortable taking $610 off someone who could potentially move is wrong. If you move to another state, you loose a LOT of money and are therefore up for more money to join up elsewhere.

Basically if you want to join ADT you need to know your ALWAYS going to be living within the area.

Take Care

Riles

[yogibear]

Yup i get your point so you are saying that if it were you you.d rather pay a small fee and a bit each week but would be willing to pay more for private lessons with someone who got results

So if it were a club that say limited class sizes to six had a very good instructor that go results then twenty a year to join and five a week would be ok because it isnt a lump sum

I agree hence why i go to the local club to trian i would happily pay more per week though say five dollars if the grounds were terrific

One provate club i know of used to charge sixty a year and six a week but they were egtting really good results quickly i thought it was reasonable especially wseeing they payed the instructors and had to hire the ground

yb

[Erny]

Hi guys - interesting reading the various thoughts on Club prices, and I don't come in her to argue one way or the other. I've heard of numerous reactions. Some say :D at the price. Others have said .... "gee, that's cheap". Alot (or all) depends on what you want out of your dog training, and assurance that the quality of your instructors is high and broad.

I'm in no way suggesting that there aren't some good instructors out there at the "normal/average" obedience club, but as has been said, the individuals are volunteers and can change, without guarantee of the next one being of the same or better standard.

As has been mentioned, not only is it guaranteed that the instructors are versed to a pre-requisite standard of knowledge in dog psych., but ADT also have the service of behaviourists available at no additional cost to the members. This means, if/when a behavioural issue crops up (and you'd maybe have no idea how often it does and with how many), the behaviourist is there to be able to help deal with it in the outset.

The instructors are also sufficiently knowledgeable to be able to recognise, during the course of training, when a problem is beginning .... or how a behaviour, whilst not recognised as a problem by the owner, is going to become one. This way, we are in a position to coach the owner (explaining why and how) and steer the owner/dog team in a path to avoid the behaviour escalating to a more difficult and sometimes serious nature.

ADT have had people approach who have been refused membership by and/or asked to leave their club due to behaviours they had no knowledge of dealing with. They have also had people who have come from other clubs, having spent an absolute age at working with their dogs with little or no success. We have had the pleasure in being able to help these people achieve their goals.

Not so long back, ADT had a couple approach them because they could barely control their dog .... their club instructor, when asked for some help, told them to put the dog to sleep. This dog is a lovely GSD and the owners are delighted with its progress. The dog is now under control, is working well within the class (rather than the very outer perimetres) and is now getting out and about with its owners more, as it is now much more enjoyable to be around.

ADT is not just about problem behaviours. It's about giving its clients the best possible services with the best grounding in knowledge. It's about understanding dogs and about working out different strategies when a particular training strategy isn't working for that particular dog. It's about teaching the principals of socialisation and addressing socialisation on a regular basis. It's not just about "sit" "drop" "stay". It's about the dogs performing those sorts of exercises in the face of many varied distractions and circumstances.

For one example, we have a member who joined us when she was 11 years old and her dog 5 years old. That was three years ago. She passed "Advance" level yonks and yonks ago. She continues to come because she simply enjoys it and likes to keep her dog's training "up to speed". We have other members who continue to come (again, well and truley passed the Advance level ages and ages ago) and they've been our members for many years .... more than 3 years, if I recall.

At the end of the day, however, it's about what YOU want in a club. If a club that does not provide what ADT does in the way of services and/or knowledge, but is cheaper (in the long run?, sometimes not) and does "it" for you and your dog, then there is no humbridge on ADT's part. This would be your choice, and it would be respected as such. ADT want you and your dogs to do well and be happy with each other and in society, no matter where you decide to train.

Sorry for the long post ..... rather passionate about what I do, I'm afraid

[yogibear]

hi Erny

well said you summed up what i was trying to say

yb

[Staff'n'Toller]

Apart from what Erny has said...

I have no connection with ADT at all, but they do have to be commended for trying to set a benchmark in the Dog Training Industry for the qualification of their trainers.

It takes a huge amount of time, money and effort to bring a course up to a recognised Certificate III, and ADT only take the trainers that graduate that course.

You absolutely get what you pay for....you're paying for experience theoretically and practically.

You can pay a franchise $400 to come and throw a chain at your dog, or another franchise to come and helicopter your dog- that's supposed to teach it how to heel :D

Or you can pay $1.50 at some clubs where your instructor has little more experience than training their very easy Labrador to CDX....I'd hate to be getting advice from that 'instructor' if I had a fear aggressive dog!

Sorry, but public clubs just can't match what they do...and if I've paid $2000+ to get myself qualified, spent time learning from mentors, spent time getting hands-on experience working dogs at kennels- then I'd damn well want to get paid for it.

Mel.

Edited for grammar.

Edited December 4, 2005 by StaffordsRule

[yogibear]

Hey SR

Well said

[Erny]

Thank you for your comments, YB and SR.

Oh - BTW, I meant to mention that ADT have a "cancellation policy". I can't remember the exact details off the top of my head, but if for some reason you chose to cancel your course within a certain period of time, a certain percentage of your course cost is refunded. Within another certain period of time, a lesser percentage of your course cost is refunded.

If you're after details, give ADT a call on 9761 2772.

Edited December 4, 2005 by Erny

[yogibear]

I thought they would most places have something inplce for when you cant go

you also have to think if a person pays they are more likely to stik to training and not give it away and shove the dog in the yard

yb

[Cheyenne_Fury]

Well said Erny :D

The reason that I looked at ADT to take Murray to was that Murray is a 9 year old Beagle cross. That in itself was enough for me to think that we needed something a little bit more than your average obedience club, not that I have anything against obedience clubs, its just that I felt Murray and I needed some more specialist help as he and I had/have a few issues.

Murray was a shelter dog that I adopted approx 12 months ago. He is a lovely dog, though a bit of a handful and quite aloof. I know that this is the case with some dogs, but I had been desperately tried to get him to warm to me and while I had had moderate success, I had not established myself as leader, and needed help in this area. This also coupled with behavourial issues of digging and escaping, showing some dominant behaviour and generally not paying any attention to anything that I said if I didn't have food in front of his nose pretty much decided for me that we needed to seek some help if we were to reach a happy medium. I also have another dog Jake and didn't want any issues with him either.

We went along to the information session and found it fantastic. The trainers and behaviorists listened to what I had to say and were able to give me a realistic view of what I could achieve with Murray. I am happy to say that I have seen results immediately and that already Murray and I are so much happier and our house is more harmonious. We of couse have a long way to go and much work ahead of us, and it wasn't the cheapest option for me and I am most certainly not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but this has been the right decision for me.

Of couse ADT might not be right for everyone for a number of reasons being cost, locations, etc. etc. but has been the right choice for Murray and I and I hope that people wont think that ADT is not for them just because it is more expensive than other clubs. Please check it out and make your own decisions as what works for some doesn't necessarily work for another and vise versa as we all know

Just edited to add that I totally agree with YB and Staffords Rule

Anne

Edited December 4, 2005 by Cheyenne_Fury

[Staff'n'Toller]

you also have to think if a person pays they are more likely to stik to training and not give it away and shove the dog in the yard

Absolutely agree Stella :D money talks BS walks, that's all there is to it.

People value what they have to pay for. I could easily pay $600 for a gym membership, that lasts for a year, with no extra help or tuition...other than "may I scan your membership card".

Mel.

Edited December 4, 2005 by StaffordsRule