Vegetarian Dogs

[Cavalier]

Have any members here raised their dogs on a vegetarian diet? This includes dairy (lactose free of course) and egg products, just no meat.

[haven]

there have been a few threads on this subject with a little information. One got a bit heated so i don't know if it will still be there, but worth doing a search.

[Vehs]

Hrm.. we had this discussion before and I don't think any members were feeding a vegetarian diet, but a few have joined since then...

It is not something I am comfortable with - my vegetarian friend was asking if she could feed her dog a similar diet and I said I wouldn't risk it.

I know some dogs that have temporarily been not fed meat when on elimination diets to help sort out what they are allergic to..

If you don't get many responses you could do a search on the forum

[morgan]

Why on earth would anyone want to keep a carnivore on a vegetarian diet? Not unless they have a magical formula for changing dental structure and doubling the length of the alimentary system.

People that want vegetarian pets to fit in with their own personal beliefs should stick to rabbits and guinea pigs..

[Cavalier]

There is actually no physiological or biochemical reason why dogs cannot be fed a vegetarian diet.

They are technically omnivores...not carnivores.

[sugar]

have a look here, healthy vegan cats;

http://www.vnv.org.au/Articles/Dogs&Cats.htm

however its says here-

Is a vegetarian diet suitable for cats and dogs? Top

Cats cannot be fed a vegetarian diet. They cannot synthesise their own taurine and taurine is only found in meat. Affected cats suffer from blindness, heart disease and deficiency of the immune system.

Dogs can be fed a vegetarian diet with caution but, like humans, a vegetarian diet must include soy and other protein sources to be a balanced diet.

Is an all-meat diet suitable for dogs? Top

An all-meat diet is dangerous. Meat is very low in calcium and very high in phosphorous. The correct ratio between calcium and phosphorous is essential for proper bone formation and growth and when fed an all-meat diet, the pet's bones are poorly ossified and rickets and similar conditions result.

Calcium deficiencies were common years ago when meat was a popular sole diet for pets but with the advent of commercially available, balanced diets, calcium deficiencies are rare.

While we love our pets, our love is misguided if we feed them like four-legged furry humans. Feeding our pets a balanced diet is easy and will prevent the problems listed above.

http://www.petalia.com.au/Templates/StoryT...ry_no=1891#ct-7

[Rusky]

I know a lady who fed her dog a vegie diet, I expressed concerns but they had a vet diet for the dog. Little dog was forever nosing round in peoples rubbish and one day I saw him marching up the road with a raw chicken carcass in his mouth. I never found out where the chicken came from, wasn't my place

Anyway dog was a fine healthy little man.

[Nadia]

Is an all-meat diet suitable for dogs? Top

An all-meat diet is dangerous. Meat is very low in calcium and very high in phosphorous. The correct ratio between calcium and phosphorous is essential for proper bone formation and growth and when fed an all-meat diet, the pet's bones are poorly ossified and rickets and similar conditions result.

Calcium deficiencies were common years ago when meat was a popular sole diet for pets but with the advent of commercially available, balanced diets, calcium deficiencies are rare.

Ah yes but raw meaty consumable bones provide the balance that the doggies need.

Personally to me not feeding a dog meat and bones would be like trying to make a Horse survive on sausage and chips.

Animals teeth and disgestives systems are designed to process the food they are meant to eat.

[Staranais]

From what I understand you can feed a dog a vegetarian diet, but it's not ideal.

You also have to be very careful about what you feed. Humans are much better suited to a vegetarian diet than dogs are, and cats can't cope with it at all.

Cavalier, are you considering raising your dogs on a vege diet for ethical reasons? One healthier alternative would perhaps be to feed the dog home kill or hunted meats, supplimented with free range eggs, dairy and fish?

[Working_Setters]

Cavalier, are you considering raising your dogs on a vege diet for ethical reasons?  One healthier alternative would perhaps be to feed the dog home kill or hunted meats, supplimented with free range eggs, dairy and fish?

Amhailte - Nice Post, agree with you 100%. Philosophical twins, on this issue at least!!

Edited November 12, 2005 by Working_Setters

[Ripley]

I have a vegetarian friend who feeds meat to her dogs.

I've also been vegetarian before and fed meat to my dog and cat.

I don't believe in imposing your own dietary and/or moral beliefs on an animal who is a natural carnivore.

If you can't stand the smell of meat, then you shouldn't have a carnivore as a pet. Don't deny the poor dog his natural diet simply because of your own beliefs, he's a dog for god's sake. He doesn't understand.

edited for typo.

Edited November 12, 2005 by Ripley

[Georgie-boy]

Dogs can quite happily sustain being fed a vegetarian diet. Cats are the obligate carnivores and therefore NEED to eat meat.

This is a tricky question as pesonally, my dog gets both meat and veg (and LOVES his veg & fruit) although I am also not in the position of being a vegetarian myself and if I was, might have a different view altogether.

In my opinion, if you were considering a vegetarian specific diet for your dog, I would be consulting your vet or a pet nutritionist if such a thing exists, prior to starting to make sure that your dog will be getting all the necessary vitamins and nutrients from your proposed diet that he/she would if they were going to have meat included.

I don't see any reason why, done responsibly, you can't have a healthy, happy, vegetarian dog!

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

DH and I are both vegetarian for a number of reasons, including not wanting to contribute to animal cruelty. Our dogs are fed using the BARF principles. I do not like handling RMBs and offal etc, but our dogs are designed to eat these food types and who am I to say otherwise? It is not fair to force my own beliefs onto my dogs b/c they are relying on me to do the right thing by them. Sure, dogs can 'survive' on a vegetarian diet, but IMO it's not the best thing for them.

Having said that, there are processed vegetarian pet foods that are OK to be fed from time to time. It's nice to give your dog a break from the usual fare, just as it is for us humans.

[espinay2]

The article in the link below is an excellent one that gives some good facts regarding feeding vegetarian diets to dogs and is essential reading for anyone considering this path:

http://b-naturals.com/Aug2003.php

[Leema]

Cats cannot be fed a vegetarian diet. They cannot synthesise their own taurine and taurine is only found in meat.

Not according to this source: http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/amino-acids/taurine.php

Sources & dosage [of Taurine]: brewer's yeast, eggs and other dairy products, fish and red meat. Daily dosage ranges from 500-1500 mgs per day.

I don't know whether I agree with 'vegetarian dogs/cats' or not - but I would like to know why cats cannot survive without meat? (As taurine can be derived from eggs [which I don't consider to be a meat]...) And I was under the impression that all essential amino acids (that is, ones that cannot be manufactuered by the body) can be derived from animal products?

Curious to know.

The two URLs I was going to post have already been posted.

EDIT: To say that, by 'animal products', I mean not nesscessarily MEAT but milk/eggs... Hope that made sense...

Edited November 12, 2005 by Leema

[Joey Rocks My World]

hello

i am a vegetarian, by choice, have been si nce i was 16 years old!!... :p

i've often wondered bout animals not needing to eat meat all the time, epecially cats and dogs........b ut i've always fed mine meat. my vege ratio is more than the meat itself, most times...

I feel repulsed myself eating animals, but i do cook it at work and for my husband and pets ... i just accept that.

luckily my rabbit and birds don't have to have it

Edited November 12, 2005 by my sweet jenna

[Staranais]

I would like to know why cats cannot survive without meat? (As taurine can be derived from eggs [which I don't consider to be a meat]...) And I was under the impression that all essential amino acids (that is, ones that cannot be manufactuered by the body) can be derived from animal products?

Please note that the "essential amino acids" are actually different for different species. All human essential amino acids can be derived from plant based foods - but not all cat essential amino acids can.

It's not just essential amino acids such as taurine that cats need from meat, they need other vitamins and minerals too, such as Vit A & Niacin. (We humans can synthesise these ourselves, but cats can't and must have a dietery source.) Although egg/dairy contain a certain amount of vit A and Niacin, it is not in sufficient concentrations in egg/dairy to sustain a cat, so just feeding a cat dairy or egg won't compensate for the lack of meat in their diet.

There are some highly processed commercial vegetarian cat foods available that are nutritionally balanced and will sustain a cat (they even contain synthetic taurine). But even the manufacturers of these foods sometimes suggest giving the cat regular servings of meat along with the vege cat biscuits, to prevent the cat suffering from urinary tract infections (which are common in cats on a vege diet).

These links might be of use:

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html

http://www.vegancats.com/pages/1007/FAQ.htm#1073

http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/howto9.html

Edited November 12, 2005 by Amhailte

[ElectraWoman]

I'm not an expert on nutritional matters but here's my 2c...

I think a lack of taurine for cats can lead to blindness and other complications.

As for dogs...I think there is still some debate as to whether dogs are carnivores or omnivores. Personally I view dogs as a carnivore because, firstly, a dog's teeth is mainly made for eating meat. Secondly, dogs can't absorb cellulose without help - hence why if we want to feed a dog vegetables, we have to grind them to a pulp.

It seems that much of the research on dogs is based on wolves. There is conjecture regarding whether wolves - who are very similar to dogs - are also omnivores. I think part of the claim that wolves are omnivores originate from the idea that wolves eat the intestinal contents of their prey - usually herbivores. However, some claim that wolves don't actually eat the intestinal contents, or, if they do, it is an occasional occurance.

Compare the biology and physiology between a human and a dog - humans IMO are true omnivores because we are both biologically built to absorb both vegetables and meats, and our teeth are designed to eat both. Same with rats and mice.

After all that long-windedness...personally I'm not sure about vegetarian diets on dogs. However, I don't begrudge others from feeding such a diet to their dogs - but only if they do it correctly.

[Cavalier]

Ok before I say anymore, I have been trained in nutrition and within 12 months will be a vet, so I am not going to be consulting my vet on this topic.

Point number two. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I will respect everyone elses as long as you respect mine. Please lets have no attacks in this thread!

I have no problem with my pets eating meat as long as they have hunted it down and killed it themselves. I cannot see my Cavalier doing this there =fore I am looking for alternatives!!! Dogs are not wild animals anymore. I have chosen to keep an breed which intensively bred over hundreds/thousands of years as a pet and I do not wish to inflict an unfair death on another animal because I made this choice.

I am a vegetarian and have been for a while. My dog at the moment is fed meat based commercial diet. I am considering changing my Cavalier to a vegetarian commercial diet based on soy protein, eggs etc both for the reasons I have stated above and to improve her health.

It has been well documented in humans that a well balanced vegetarian diet reduces the risk of heart disease (big plus in a Cav), cancer, diabetes, pancreatitis and many other diseases.

On the topic of cats. You are able to buy taurine which has been synthesised using bacterial recombinant DNA. There is a a vegan cat and a vegan dog commercial diet which has been tested and approved by AFFCO. No animal cruelty involved!

[Ripley]

I have no problem with my pets eating meat as long as they have hunted it down and killed it themselves.

Hope you don't live in the country as your dog would end up one dead dog if you let it do this. Letting a dog kill native widlife is cruel and irresponsible too.