Obedience Clubs...advise/opinions?...

[yogibear]

Yup this area is doggy capital lol Hastings never had an issue with me using toys food etc in classes they are pretty much find what the dog loves and use t. They usually takes lots of play breaks while the instructors explain things.

all clubs have politics and they need to have structure to keep things moving smoothly there is always going to be people you just cant get along with whatever club you go to Where i am now everyone leaves me to do my thing they have known me for years and know i do things differently but they will come over if im talking to a memebr just in case im telling them things and abducting them or something lol.. I dont care so long as i can do things the way i need but ive been in this gme a long time so arent looking for instruction..

I think for people looking for a good class hastings is a pretty good place to start while they keep up with latest techniques and try to educate themselves they are doing well At a recent talk i went to by Debbie Calnon there were at least four instructors from the club there which i thought was an excellent turnout

[Guest Tess32]

DD - Yep they allow toys.

Nat

[dogdayz]

but they will come over if im talking to a memebr just in case im telling them things and abducting them or something lol..

i noticed that

[Erny]

CF:  If you want to do agility check out ACtion dogs on a wednesday night at doveton .......

CF - Action Dogs have a good system and method of training and I'd recommend them too. They're not taking any more new members this year, but if you'd like to book in for next year, PM me and I can give you the contact number to ring.

Another option is K9 Agility, which runs at KCC park on Thursday nights. Whilst it doesn't have the advantage of being indoors as Action Dogs are, it has the advantage of more room to spread out. I can give you a contact number for that club too, if you require.

Tess32:   Yep they allow toys.

There are obedience schools that don't allow toys as motivators?! The instructors at ADT are always pushing for people to bring their dogs' favourite motivators and for them to be used in training.

Many people use food, and if that's the dog's favourite motivator, I have no problems with that, although I suspect, sometimes, that it's the people who use the food because they find it easier to administer. With a few, it becomes, unfortunately, a replacement for great, energetic and fun interaction with their dogs.

Admittedly, there are some dogs who don't enjoy toys (my dog's one of them .... not for the want of me trying otherwise), but generally speaking, I think the best is to have both the dog's primary and secondary reinforcers available for use. (Sometimes the primary and secondary are interchangeable, depending on the dog's preference at the time.)

Edited November 14, 2005 by Erny

[Guest Tess32]

There certainly are clubs that don't allow toys Erny.

I have been to a club where food AND toys were highly frowned upon at the time I joined. I heard this from a few instructors there so I am not sure if it was a "club" rule but it was certainly the norm at the time. I did go back to the club recently to check it out before I joined Hastings and not one person I saw was using toys (or food it seemed) so maybe it's the same.

At another very popular club at the time I was told that toys were not encouraged but not "banned" either. Apparently they disrupt class.

I'm grateful to the instructors at Hastings who happily allow Owners to keep their dog motivated and have a quick play break after a difficult exercise and/or use toys as a reward.

Nat

[dogdayz]

Erny - Tess is right toys are often not allowed, more so than food. To an extent i can see a squeaky can distract other dogs - but so can a million other things at dog clubs. On the otherhand i think if a dog can ignore a toy in someone elses hands then great its less likely to grab one off a child on the beach. I often have problems with unsupervised kids offering food and toys to 'Lassie' just to snatch it back at the last minute.

Food is my dogs greatest motivator but she gets way too excited to concentrate and work for it - once she understands an exercise she tries to short cut e.g. bite the clicker to make it click, putting herself in the sheep pen without the sheep or jumping in the air to sight a tracklayer instead of following the scent She does fortunately value toys, she has always loved her private playtime with me away from other dogs, so hopefully this will work - i have 18 months to get her ready for the collie nationals which will likely be her only venture into the obedience ring (how do i get talked into these things ;) ).

Just glad my weim is less capable of independent thought processes.

[Erny]

..... once she understands an exercise she tries to short cut e.g. bite the clicker to make it click ......

DD - ;) ;) :p gorgeous !

[Erny]

I'm grateful to the instructors at Hastings who happily allow Owners to keep their dog motivated and have a quick play break after a difficult exercise and/or use toys as a reward.

Not doubting you at all .... just amazed that there are "trainers" out there who don't encourage the use of motivational instruments to aid in the dogs' training.

I don't believe I've seen any issue to any big degree with "disruption" in any of the classes I have at ADT.

We have many "release" times after each exercise for the dogs. The "release" times are used as the dogs' "pay cheque" for a job well done. The release is not so much a "break" as it is part of the dogs' training program. A play on words, I guess, but it can make a difference to some people who might regard the "break" as a downtime, rather than an uptime for the dog. We don't just allow it, but teach it as part of training.

At the clubs you know of that didn't work with motivation (or very little of it) .... what were the dogs like? IE Obedience and demeanour ????

[dogdayz]

At the clubs you know of that didn't work with motivation (or very little of it) .... what were the dogs like? IE Obedience and demeanour ????

My collie is a product of this system - admittedly her independent streak was always there, but the boredom/lack of incentive from her original dog school was in my opinion a big issue. I still see many of the dogs at school just going through the motions, no tail wagging and often slow responses which are from lack of attention rather than distraction (i differentiate the two). Things are changing slowly and i think that is largely due to a few people attending who do competitive obedience etc being more involved.

Just a thought, but i cannot remember at any time in the last three years of attending a dog school (albeit intermittently of late) that anyone taught how to get and keep attention, that is something i have only learned outside of the school from variouus people who work with us in different disciplines. Rather it has all been about forcing compliance.

Edited November 15, 2005 by dogdayz

[Guest Tess32]

At the first club I mentioned it was the dogs demeanor that put me off the club even more so. Most arrived at class already having been corrected all the way from the car, so they look "over it" before it had begun. They had obviously been taught not to let the dogs pull to class, which obviously is fair enough, but the corrections were obviously not working and the dogs just looked like they'd been nagged to death. During class they mostly performed the exercises (which all looked very boring to me anyway) but I didn't see any waggy tails, that's for sure.

The second club isn't so bad - plenty of the dogs are very happy and relaxed and work well. Obviously the differences lie elsewhere. At the time I was in the first class out of older puppies and food was not allowed.

Both are very popular clubs, mind you. I would never recommend the first, the second it seems to depend more on the instructors you get perhaps. I had an excellent instructor there but left because he only did younger puppy classes and I didn't like the rest.

Nat

[Cheyenne_Fury]

Yep when I went to Hastings (This is almost 2 and a half years ago) we could use whatever tool that our dogs responded to most. For Jake this was a combination of squeeky toy (all of you that went to the DOL meet Mel on Sunday can see that he goes nuts for a squeeky toy) and food.

Unfortunately Murray is not one for toys, maybe he is just past the playing with toys thing, but give him even a whiff of food and you have his attention, even if it is only momentarily

Anne

[Guest Tess32]

Interesting DD - the last two clubs I have attended have both spent quite a while on "attention" games and so on for people to do outside of the club atmosphere so attention can be built.

Whether Reilly works well all depends on me - I know when I can keep him turned on the whole time he works very well - when I'm distracted, so is he. A lot of clubs seem to always assume it's the dogs fault.

Nat

[Cheyenne_Fury]

Thanks Yogi and Erny, would definately like to check out Doveton as it is indoor, but also would look at KCC park as well. Do they have beginners classes as Jake would definately be in the beginners

Anne

[dogdayz]

Interesting DD - the last two clubs I have attended have both spent quite a while on "attention" games and so on for people to do outside of the club atmosphere so attention can be built.

and Hastings?

[Guest Tess32]

Yep.

Nat

[Erny]

Thanks Yogi and Erny, would definately like to check out Doveton as it is indoor, but also would look at KCC park as well. Do they have beginners classes as Jake would definately be in the beginners

Yes - both Action Dogs and K9 Agility have "beginners" classes. Action Dogs have a "foundation class" that you will need to work through first - it's about HOW to train and habituate and build drive/motivation. K9 Agility might have that too ... I'm not sure. The foundation class is something pups can do to. They then have the levels that you go through from bottom to top! But the girl who's number I gave you, CF will be able to explain better than I.

[Erny]

A lot of clubs seem to always assume it's the dogs fault.

Another ;) from me! I'm the opposite ..... it's always the handler's fault! ;) And that goes for me, too, if my training's not happening as I'd expect.

[Guest Tess32]

I think you need to visit a few clubs Erny

Nat

[Erny]

I think you need to visit a few clubs Erny

I have visited a couple (but not as a member, so didn't participate). I wasn't allowed close enough to the "action" to hear what the instructors were directing their clients to do (or not to do).

[Herr Rottweiler]

No she doesn't! She's a club junky as it is