Luxating Patella

[Megzz]

Hi All

My Vet has just Diagnosed Francesca my L/H Chi with Luxating Patella in BOTH Knees!.. Do any of you have dogs with this condition? If so how do you handle it?. She is only a little over 12 mths & it is Not REAL bad yet but the vet said it could get bad.

She does play & run around like Crazy sometimes & jumps on the funiture etc. Should I stop her from doing those things?

What about diet should I maybe change that? she gets Cooked Mince Meat with Rice, Vegetables & she gets Supercoat Puppy.

Any advice would be great..Ta muchly

meg

[jennabub]

Hi Megzz,

Sorry to hear about your baby. I have a 19 month old toy poodle who had a catagory 4 luxating patella. The only choice we had was surgery as she was in a lot of pain with her leg. She has luxating patella in her other back leg as well but it is not as severe and at this moment in time it doesn't seem to cause her any problems at all.

She had her surgery about 5 months ago and is doing really well. She does have a slight limp on the leg that was operated on but generally is good. Doesn't seem to have any pain at all with it anymore. Vet did advise us that she will more than likely have arthritis in the leg as she gets older.

Hope this helps

Nicola

[trevagreene]

Hi Megzz,

Our Chow Chow had/has a luxating patela.

she had surgery at about 12 months of age and was quite stressful for us and her !

however, after 4 operations !!! yes, four operations ( long story ) she was fine.......until now.....its been about 2 1/2 years, and she has had no issue, until recently where she gets a slight limp in the same leg. The vet has told us that an issue has surfaced where the luxating patella is luxating outwards as opposed to inwards ( the surgery fixed the inwards movement ) apparently its a standard procedure where they "tie down" the joint from the outside to stop movement outwars...

Anyway, upshot to all this, since her initiall surgery she has been on 3-6 monthly cartrophen injections, and we have had to move this to every two months. She gets a shot, and is fine, and we will be trying to manage her on catrophen to avoid surgery !!

good Luck !

PS. My Aussie Terrier also has a luxating patela but is totally unbothered by it and hence we have decided not to have surgery.

PPS. If the surgery is done correctly its not that bad, we had some complications which created unessary stress for us and her....

[nobul]

did they mention what grade they were at? It is where the "kneecap" slips out of the groove it is either inwards (medial) or outwards (lateral) either the groove is too shallow or the alignment incorrect. This can either be hereditory or traumatic (caused through injury) I would restrict too much boiterous exercise and keep a close eye out as they can be good at disguising it.

if an operation is required look around and pay for an expert it can save you a lot of greiff.

[Megzz]

did they mention what grade they were at? It is where the "kneecap" slips out of the groove it is either inwards (medial) or outwards (lateral) either the groove is too shallow or the alignment incorrect. This can either be hereditory or traumatic (caused through injury) I would restrict too much boiterous exercise and keep a close eye out as they can be good at disguising it.

if an operation is required look around and pay for an expert it can save you a lot of greiff.

No she didn't mention what grade it is.... She did say that at this time it is not serious but it could get worse

[Leenie]

Grade I -- The patella can be manually luxated but easily comes back into normal position. Patient may or may not occasionally carry the affected leg.

Grade II -- Patella luxates on flexion of the knee joint and remains out of place until manually replaced or patient extends and rotates joint. Patient intermittently carries the affected limb with the knee joint flexed.

Grade III -- Patella remains luxated most of the time but can be manually reduced (placed back into position). Flexion and extension of the knee joint reluxates the patella. Patient transfers most of the body weight to the front legs, bunny hops or carries the affected legs, and appears bowlegged or knock-kneed.

Grade IV -- Patella is permanently luxated and cannot be manually repositioned. The quadriceps muscle group starts to shorten, making it difficult to extend the leg fully. Patient transfers most of the body weight to the front legs, bunny hops or carries the affected legs, and appears bowlegged or knock-kneed.

Add an anti-inflammatory and joint support supplement to the diet. Technyflex Canine is great - green lipped mussel extract, glucosamine and essential fatty acids. A bottle of 80 capsules is $45.

Edited November 8, 2005 by Leenie

[Megzz]

Thanks for that Info Leenie! I will certainly keep those capsules in mind!

[poodlefan]

Megzz is there any particular reason why you are still feeding Supercoat Puppy?

Your girl is now fully mature.

[Alison1474]

Leenie thanks from me for that information too.... Chopper has a mild case of it as well and that info helps alot.

[poodlefan]

Megzz I'd suggest you have a good talk with your vet about it. One of the issues with luxating patellas is the wear they put on a joint. Sometimes surgery can stave off arthritic degeneration so the earlier you do it the better.

Depending on the severity of the luxation you also have to consider the risk to the dog of a traumatic luxation.

You need to know what grade you are dealing with. I'd consider surgery for anything over Level 2. Improving the muscle on a dog can be a big help to it too.

I have had one of my dogs operated on for a luxating patella. 7 years on he is still going well.

[~Myschafis~]

Ok megzz surgery doesnt have to be an option the majority of vets will tell you this but it is not the case!

Both me and my mother have done a major research on this and went and took it into and our own hands and got practical with a one year rehabilitation process, and guess what it worked without surgery.

Firstly you will probably never notice the patella slipping when your dog is running around, but you will notice it on cold days and when the dog has just got up from laying down or in the morning when he/she has just got up!

There is no cure to this not even surgery as there is the possibility that the ligaments can re-attach and cause you the heart-ache all over again.

BUT you can manage it, and with enough rehabilition you will see it very rarely to none!

How you manage it - Work, physical excercise especially on hills, this will strengthen the muscle creating a firmer hold on the joints and ligaments thus stopping it from slipping.

After just a week of this work we found the locking had substantially slowed. After 6 months there was no locking at all.

You can then decrease the work load but if your dog becomes unfit and the loses muscles the locking will come back again.

Goodluck

[Megzz]

Wel I emailed the breeder & just as I suspected I got the "oh that's never happend to our other dogs.. Here is a copy of the email

I was sorry to hear about Francesca. I do not have a problem with her sister, as a matter of fact I have never had anyone whom I sold dogs to have that complaint.I think you will find that all Chihuahuas have that problem at some degree and we have found that Vets differ at the degrees of patella problems. One of the breeders sent a dog to W.A. and the dog was quite fine, a vet over there made it sound that it was really bad, and when the dog came back and was checked by a Vet here it was not as bad as it sounded. Chihuahuas a notorious with this problem and I do not believe that no one has the problem at some degree. Normally they are fine as pups and sometimes the problem comes up later in the dogs life. As to not breeding with her it is up to you, but I do think that some Vets do frighten people unnecessarily. In my experience we as breeders know more about Chihuahuas than some Vets do. Have you noticed her hopping at all, if you haven't then it is not bad. You ought to have seen the Chihuahuas hopping in the ring here lately. Any way I hope that it is not bad,you both seem to love each other, and you did need a companion,

It was nice hearing from you again, I just wish that it was better news.

Thanks for all your help peoples! It means a lot to me

meg

Edited November 9, 2005 by Megzz

[Megzz]

Is the breeder correct? about me breeding Francesca? as I do NOT think I can breed a Chi with that problem.

I paid $600 for this particular dog & she was intended for breeding & show.. so I am not impressed at the breeders response...what do you all think about her reply?

[poodlefan]

Response from Breeder:

have never had anyone whom I sold dogs to have that complaint.

Lots of people don't know how to recognise patella luxation. Many more don't complain to breeders when the problem comes up.

I think you will find that all Chihuahuas have that problem at some degree and we have found that Vets differ at the degrees of patella problems.

I can think of a few Chi breeders who would take issue with idea that all Chi's luxate. The bit about vets differing on assessment is true enoughl

Chihuahuas a notorious with this problem and I do not believe that no one has the problem at some degree.

Except for this breeder by the sound of things.

Normally they are fine as pups and sometimes the problem comes up later in the dogs life.

My experience is the reverse. A pup can lose minor luxation as increased muscle development holds the patella in place. This occured in my toy poodle.

You ought to have seen the Chihuahuas hopping in the ring here lately.

Feeble attempt to excuse what is a fault in any dog.

Any way I hope that it is not bad,you both seem to love each other, and you did need a companion,

If you bought a show dog on main register and she has a structural defect then you wanted something more than a companion.

I strongly recommend you seek a specialist opinion. This is still a young dog so there is scope for improvement. Perhaps increased musculature may assist.

I'd show her but reserve my decision about breeding until you get a specialist opinion.

Edited November 11, 2005 by poodlefan

[Megzz]

thanks for that poodlefan..I was hoping someone would tell me what they thought of the breeders response. I am NOT very impressed.. she basically came up with every possible excuse she could think of. She *KNEW* when I bought Francesca she was intended as a show & breeding dog.

Perhaps I should get that specialist opinion then contact the breeder again?

Edited November 11, 2005 by Megzz

[poodlefan]

Megzz:

Perhaps I should get that specialist opinion then contact the breeder again?

It won't hurt but it sounds like you are not going to get satisfaction from this breeder.

For what its worth, get an experienced vet to check out your next pup very soon after you get it.... patella luxation can be detected in a pup. You'd have more chance of satisfaction closer to the date of purchase.

Show your girl anyway. It will give you the entree to meeting other breeders and to seeing what dogs you like and what dogs you don't. It will also improve your eye for a dog and may give you a chance to find a mentor who can guide you in the breed.

For what its worth, many breeders will tell you that the first 'show' dog they bought wasn't the best foundation for their kennel but taught them a lot about the breed.

Worst comes to worse, consider Francesca as your "L Plate" dog - she is going to teach you so much about showing, about dealing with seasons etc. IF you do desex her in the end, you will still have learned a great deal. Unfortunately, as with this thread, some lessons are going to be painful.

Edited November 11, 2005 by poodlefan

[arianwen]

I believe you can have x-rays to diagnose the exact degree.

But really... no matter the breed a breeder should NOT breed a dog with Luxating Patella, especially when it is obviously genetic.

A pup with luxating patella would no doubt have inherited it.

It is so sad that this breeder thinks its OK to breed with LP!!! No wonder breeds go down so quickly. I am thoroughly disgusted It re-affirms why I gave up breeding.

Injury based is different and I think the breeder should make full effort to prove it is injury related and not genetic.

[arianwen]

I agree with poodlefan... show her until you find another little lady to show and breed from. I wouldnt show her for too long though... I think it sets bad precidence to show dogs with big faults... if they win. And dont leave it too long to have her desexed either.

[Megzz]

I agree with poodlefan... show her until you find another little lady to show and breed from. I wouldnt show her for too long though... I think it sets bad precidence to show dogs with big faults... if they win. And dont leave it too long to have her desexed either.

Heys Don't worry will definitley be getting her desexed as soon as finances permit. To be honest I don't think I'll even show her, she gets nervous around people she doen't know. I think her job is to be a spoilt loving little pet. I'm good at spoiling my babies .

As for the breeder..yes I am VERY un impressed that she thinks it ok to breed dogs with that problem. I have NOT had good experiences when buying from registered breeders weather they be rabbits, guinea pigs, dogs what ever. WHEN ever something goes wrong & I contact the breeders I get that many damn excuses...& how they've never had it in their stock, & the vet was probably wrong..or it's probably something I did etc etc. & no I am never rude when giving them the news..I make a point of being nice so the breeder knows I am not attacking them over the issue. It has really put me of buying from registered breeders

[Auschi]

Meg, Unfortunately some Chihuahua breeders do not know how to identify luxating patellas correctly, & think a dog only has a problem when it hops. I personally have my adults graded, especially if I am considering breeding from them.

Patella luxation is a degenerative disease, and is likely to get worse with age.

I recently tried to get a voluntary patella testing scheme through our club here in SA, but it mostly fell on deaf ears, or some breeders thought it wasn't a problem because their dogs didn't hop!

I suggest that you do plently of research on breeders & what testing they do on their dogs before you purchase your next show prospect.

Good luck with Francesca, hopefully she wont get worse too quickly & wont need surgery later in life.

Vicki