Training Discussion - Head Halters

[cavNrott]

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Edited May 7, 2009 by cavNrott

[Steve K9Pro]

A:

K9: As you know my dog was pulling for the reason that she wanted to get where she was going at a faster pace than we were doing. She is totally non aggressive, was not trying to get to another dog, get away from me or for any other reason other than wanting to go faster. I know you know that but I post this info for others who may think I am unable to read my dog.

K9: no problems, & having that said, if you said "Steve, Sophi is .... what should I do?" I could give you step by step of what to do, its just not that simple when you dont know the dog or the owner.

I think that is what the Chest beaters lol (whomever they may be) may have been getting at...?

[Steve K9Pro]

lol this belonged elsewhere

Edited November 8, 2005 by K9 Force

[Herr Rottweiler]

Okay now i'm utterly confused

Anne you said this in an earlier post;

If you are familiar with the Rottweiler forum in America you will probably know who this trainer is. He is highly respected by the knowledgable people on that forum and has written many training articles for them.

Then you said this;

K9 gave me advice and instruction by email which I followed to the letter.  His advice worked.  He made it perfectly clear what should happen and what I should do. The dog ceased to pull when I implemented his instructions and today I still utilise the instruction K9 gave me and we have no further problems.

So am I alone here? K9 did you come over from America ;)

Maybe it's because of my "chest beating" that i don't understand

[Erny]

Maybe it's because of my "chest beating" that i don't understand 

Don't fash yourself, HR ..... that's just your gorilla genetics showing through .... ;)

Actually, I think Anne was referring to me, 'cause I said something about experience/expertise. Although I only meant it as inference to support my opinion that head collars have a place for those that are not able to attain the degree of control to allow them to start training ....

Edited November 8, 2005 by Erny

[cavNrott]

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Edited May 7, 2009 by cavNrott

[Brutus_Michelle]

Hi all, interesting reading. Personally myself I have used a Haiti which I found useful and now I have switched to a Canny Collar which is the same concept as a Haiti but it works via the collar - not that I did it but it relieves the risk of head jerking because you are mainly working via the neck so plus when you what to switch to a flat collar you just slip the nose piece off - simple. Which I actually slip off his nose in training once he has settled. It makes for an easier transition back to the flat collar because it is working in the collar area anyway. So now I barely need to use either pieces Though basically if you say Heel to your dog and it does nothing none of these peices of equipment will work in the long run anyway. ;)

[Kelpie-i]

Kelpie, just to clarify here in respect your statement that you 'think Anne was looking for some training tips". Sorry you are wrong. What prompted me to comment in the first place was that a couple of 'trainers' were beating their chest about their 'experience and expertise'.

Anne, with all due respect, you cannot expect all the trainers on this board to flash their credentials each time someone asks. I, myself, based my statements on both witnessing the use of and using the halter on my own dogs, hence why I made my initial comments about the tool. My statements were both as a user and a professional.

We have no doubt whatsoever that K9's instructions assisted you with your problem and for that you hold high respect for him. However, please don't assume that just because other trainers have not thrown training suggestions your way that they are any less qualified in assisting with a problem such as this.

My personal opinion of training clubs is not favourable. I feel they are good venues for socialisation but I found the club I went to useless. I also went as a spectator to another couple of training clubs and was no more impressed with them. That is why I chose to train privately - because I was serious about training.

It's a shame that the training clubs you attended were not to your liking. I agree that there are some which leave much to be desired, however there are some very good training establishments that you have obviously missed. Not all training establishments are the same.

[Herr Rottweiler]

Nicely said Kelpie -i

[haven]

Speaking for myself, I did not answer the question about HOW to teach a dog not to pull on lead because:

1) That is not the topic of this thread;

2) You have been a member longer than I and are fully aware there have been a multitude of threads on this topic, do a search and;

3) I felt and still feel that you are simply baiting for the sake of an argument and I have better things to do with my time

[Rusky]

K9 to add to your points about neck injury with the halti, a fellow who owned a large malamute was told by a training school to use a halti. He said he was happy with his correction but he was ganged up on and told he had to use one or lose his mebership. He decided that he would give it a go. 2 weeks later he fractured the vertibre in the dogs neck following the instructions of the girl who recommended it to him. The vet cleared him 6 months later to be able to train again. He came and did some private work with me and because of the injury I fitted his dog with a prong collar.

I have a large malamute I used a halti I didn't break her neck. The training school where I went when she was young all used chains, they don't now

I am sure that we can all find positives and negatives for head halters.

I am sure we can all find positives and negatives for many different training styles/methods/tools/schools/personal trainers/socialisation and so on.

I would be very interested to have seen this bloke breaking his dogs neck and am wondering why the heck someone at the training school didn't say

'oy you... stop pulling that dog around, you will hurt her/him'

just like we all do with any collar on any dog flat/chain/head collar.

[Herr Rottweiler]

I have a large malamute I used a halti I didn't break her neck. The training school where I went when she was young all used chains, they don't now ;)

I am sure that we can all find positives and negatives for head halters.

I am sure we can all find positives and negatives for many different training styles/methods/tools/schools/personal trainers/socialisation and so on.

I would be very interested to have seen this bloke breaking his dogs neck and am wondering why the heck someone at the training school didn't say

'oy you... stop pulling that dog around, you will hurt her/him'

just like we all do with any collar on any dog flat/chain/head collar.

Of course we can find positive & negative in all equipment. This is just one example I know of for the folks who say that the halti is so much more humane and dogs don't get injured on them because it's a lovely soft piece of cloth

The fellow didn't break the dogs neck either, he fracture the vertibre and from his mouth, he claims to have followed the instruction of one of the trainers. He felt that the advice was questionable but he said he did it against his better judgement. I have a picture somewhere that i will dig out of a dog with cuts all over his face from another clients dog who mutilated himself trying to get it off while the instructor stood bye and said, 'he has to learn'

Hey I have seen injuries from flat collars so i'm plainy advising people that pain and injury can be atributed to anything. I even watched a class the other day where a dog was rewarded with some food and it momentarily lodged in the dogs throat. An extreme circumstance I know but none the less it resulted in the dog suffering for five minutes while it coughed and gagged.

[cavNrott]

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Edited May 7, 2009 by cavNrott

[Herr Rottweiler]

I am in Melbourne. My trainer is in Melbourne. K9 is in Sydney so I could hardy do private training sessions with him.

So Anne,

Do you just do the odd private lesson with Michael or are you training at ECDT?

[Herr Rottweiler]

My point in commenting was for the people who are having problems with pulling dogs and the fact that certain people were alluding to the fact that they could well be fools.

Oh i think that's just your wicked slur

[cavNrott]

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Edited May 7, 2009 by cavNrott

[Herr Rottweiler]

No Herr Rottweiler I did not just do the odd lesson with Michael. We had private lessons for a period of about two years because my dog had layoffs from training due to her two surgeries that required extensive rehab time. Michael was also involved in her physio and rehab. What is your interest in this? Why do you ask?

I know Michael, nice bloke. That's all

[cavNrott]

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Edited May 7, 2009 by cavNrott

[haven]

BTW personal attacks are not allowed on this board and I believe accusing someone of baiting who is posing legitimate questions is a personal attack.

It seems I have a little trio which is now becoming a quartet who are intent on turning this into a personal issue. What a pity the people who have training problems are being ignored whilst this is happening.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

Hit the report button.

[Kelpie-i]

I have a picture somewhere that i will dig out of a dog with cuts all over his face from another clients dog who mutilated himself trying to get it off while the instructor stood bye and said, 'he has to learn'

Oh my HR, this sounds nasty.

Statements such as the only reason a dog pulls is because the owner allows it confirms my thoughts

Anne, I still stand by my statement on all accounts. "A dog only pulls because the owner has allowed it to!" Please prove otherwise.