Training Discussion - Head Halters

[Staff'n'Toller]

Following on from the check chain thread in General, which is in danger of being hijacked about Head Halter discussion...I thought I'd add my two cents worth...and encourage some healthy discussion about their use.

The Halter can be used to teach the dog something- to walk nicely without pulling.

It should (as all training collars) be seen as a means to an end. If the halter is used with a double ended lead, one end clipped to the flat collar, the other to the halter, then it can be slowly phased out thus enabling a return to a flat collar permanently.

As Dog Trainers, with experience training all sorts of dogs of different breeds, and most likely having multiple dogs ourselves, it's quite easy for us to say 'just teach your dog to heel' unfortunately I see many of my clients for the first time with Adult dogs who have been pulling badly since day dot...the behaviour is well advanced + the owner wants a solution NOW!!

Halters provide a short term solution to many owners who have stopped walking their dogs because they just can't, reasons such as: RSI of the arms/shoulders; dog too strong for owner so out of control or a danger to other dogs due to that behaviour, or just plain handler frustration- the last point should never be underestimated when working with clients.

Whilst this seems like a bandaid and a quick fix, I'm sure most trainers would agree that next to recalls, heeling or walking nicely is one of the hardest things to achieve.

I think you can easily alienate clients by playing down how easy it is to teach their dogs to walk nicely when they have often come to you *for that very reason- they don't know how to retrain it!!*

Also- if a halter provides enough of a fix that:

1. The owner will feel happy that the pulling has stopped.

2. The owner will start walking the dog again- bingo! That dogs' quality of life just increased ten-fold.

3. The owner feels reassured that they have full control over the dog when walking.

Then hey! :rolleyes: I'm all for fitting one...explain how they can wean it off, but it can give the owner valuable, frustration reduced time to reteach their dog how to walk nicely.

Also the *infin8* halter has just been released (to trainers only) by Blackdog Wear, it is a remake of the orginial, which is now a Blackdog Training Collar, with a figure of eight under and over strap simulating the strap of the halter but without the tight pulling under the chin, also it will be easier IMHO to phase out the nosepiece and go back to martingale collar only.

Discussion welcome....as well as any Trainers or interested persons are most welcome to come to PM me if they'd like to meet up and work with some dogs on halters, or have halters fitted to their dogs.

Cheers,

Mel.

Edited November 4, 2005 by StaffordsRule

[Rusky]

yes Mel :rolleyes: I couldn't agree more.

Most people want a nice well behaved dog who can sit has manners to wait, likes a game of throw and can walk without yanking their arm off.

Once the dog is walking without pulling the training to walk nicely without pulling can begin, sometimes the halti is only needed for a short time then back to a flat collar. The only real problem are the ones who see the quick fix as a solution to all their problems and never return to training. It happens...

It is important too to have a good, nice lead, a dog which pulls with a bad lead can rip hands to shreds.

[helen]

I agree 100% with what you have said. The first dog I used a head halter on was a rescue standard poodle and it worked like a dream. I have since used it on 2 other dogs. I can say for sure I have never been even close to having any neck injuries.

Blackdog also make a double ended lead which is designed to wean a dog from the halti to the flat collar. This can also be done using 2 leads.

[Cheyenne_Fury]

I used a gentle leader on my dalmatian when I first took him to obedience school when he was around a year old. He was a rescue dog that I got between 6-8 months of age. I tried walking him on a flat collar and at first he was ok, but then he would pull and pull and I didn't really know how to stop him from pulling. I would make him walk beside me and would shorten the lead so that I could have better control and correct him when he pulled, but all he learned to do was lean against the lead. This was my fault and it was for this reason that I began obedience with him. One of the instructors at the club suggested a gentle leader or halti so off i went to the RSPCA shop and had one of the people there fit my dog with a gentle leader and instruct me on it's correct use. Though I didn't ever use it with two leads, I always kept his flat collar on when we were out on walks and it did work wonders because I had begun obedience and was being taught how to teach my dog to heal properly. Soon I didn't need the gentle leader and now only put it on his occasionally if he starts to pull or get really excited. He is much better, and I am going to be taking him and my other dog back to training so that I can learn to train them better.

Anne

[SpikesPuppy]

I used a Halti brand haedcollar on my Dobermann for a period because not only did she pull but she also went through a period where she was very sensitive to anything on her neck (such as a collar, she'd go bald and get a rash under it). I never liked it much because it would leave a mark on her and she didn't like it, but there wasn't much else I could use back then.

Then we went to a new obedience club and tried out the Blackdog brand Headcollar and it was great. While she hated the Halti, she would shove her nose straight into the Blackdog headcollar, tail wagging. So we used this for a little while until I decided to try her on her flat collar and she was perfectly fine! So she doesn't need her headcollaranymore (though I do sometimes put it on her if we're going into a large crowd, or when mum walks her, just to have that extra bit of control and because she *can* be dog agressive it's easier to be able to control her head but I NEVER jerk or yank her, if anything I jiggle the lead, to make a 'hey you' noise and she looks straight up at me).

Now I walk her on a Limited Slip collar.

We bought a Gentle leader for our rescue Kelpie, but it doesn't fit her properly, but we're most interested in the new Infin* halter by Blackdog and will be getting one once they are released.

I can walk Iko on a flat or limited slip collar (Haven't tried her on a Martingale), but mum can't as easily and mum just doesn't have as much time to spend working with the dog.

I do believe that some people DO use halters and headcollars as a 'quick fix' and never have their dogs trained enough to walk on a flat collar, but at least they have done SOMETHING and at least they WALK their dogs. It's better than dumping them or putting them to sleep.

And I also believe as others have said, there are good reasons for needing a quick fix such as injury, infirmness, heck, even just a busy parent who's got a pram, a toddler and a dog to handle all at once!

And not everyone uses it as a quick fix either, there are many people who work on TRAINING thier dogs to walk nicely, if they get their using a headcollar then so be it.

Along with many others- I see a headcollar as a tool and like any other tool it can be used correctly and have excellent results but it can also be used incorrectly and have disastrous results.

[Kelpie-i]

I'm still not convinced it can stop a chronic puller or are safe for that matter.

I have witnessed on many ocassions large dogs with head halters that continue to pull and the owners then tugging them back resulting in the dog's neck being literally whipped back. It looked far too dangerous for my likings. I've also seen dogs jump leaps with halters on....half of their body going one way and head going another. NECK CRACK!!!

They certainly work for some dogs but I am not convinced they are safe.

[SpikesPuppy]

They certainly work for some dogs but I am not convinced they are safe.

Not to be argumentative, but is there any training aid/tool that IS totally safe?

[haven]

As Dog Trainers, with experience training all sorts of dogs of different breeds, and most likely having multiple dogs ourselves, it's quite easy for us to say 'just teach your dog to heel' unfortunately I see many of my clients for the first time with Adult dogs who have been pulling badly since day dot...the behaviour is well advanced + the owner wants a solution NOW!!

Halters provide a short term solution to many owners who have stopped walking their dogs because they just can't,

I've personally trained a large number of dogs not to pull on the lead and I never cease to be amazed by how quickly the dog catches on to the concept.

If owners sought professional advice and put a little training in, then teaching their dog not to pull on the lead certainly can be a quick fix, no need for the head halter.

I also think pulling on lead can be a leadership issue and I have seen pups raised by people who were effective leaders for their dog and the pups never learned to pull in the first place.

[Kelpie-i]

If owners sought professional advice and put a little training in, then teaching their dog not to pull on the lead certainly can be a quick fix, no need for the head halter

Agree!!

I always say the only reason a dog pulls is because the owners have let it!

Not to be argumentative, but is there any training aid/tool that IS totally safe?

SP: true, there really isn't a totally safe tool, but I don't consider one that could possibly (and easily) snap a neck to be more safe than a collar. Many people believe the head halters to be "safe".

Edited November 5, 2005 by Kelpie-i

[SpikesPuppy]

Indeed many people do assume headhalters to be safe, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss them instantly as a potentially effective tool. It would be more effective IMO to explain the possible dangers.

I mean, not many people would believe a dog could damage itself using a flat collar but it can and does happen!

Not to mention dogs who slip flat collars because it's not tight enough, stretches over time, slides over a dog's narrow head etc.

With regards to training and 'professional advice' it's not always possible- some people just don't have the time to attend an obedience class (not meaning no time but don't have time at the same time as classes are run), nor do they have the money for private lessons at a more appropriate time. And there is a suprising lack of obedience classes near to Train stations which I find extremely annoying as I don't drive and have no plans to in the near future, either.

I'm not saying it's an excuse to be 'lazy' but I do feel that there are circumstances where a quick fix type situation is neccesarry or appropriate, even if it's not the most desirable solution.

And please, don't assume that everyone who uses a halter on their dog is lazy or not interested in training their dog.

Edited November 5, 2005 by SpikesPuppy

[Staff'n'Toller]

I have witnessed on many ocassions large dogs with head halters that continue to pull and the owners then tugging them back resulting in the dog's neck being literally whipped back.  It looked far too dangerous for my likings.  I've also seen dogs jump leaps with halters on....half of their body going one way and head going another.  NECK CRACK!!!

Definitely true, and I always put out the caution about letting dogs run to the end of the lead on the halter- that is a big no-no.

As for dogs leaping in the air, that's more of a handler issue, we can teach handlers about the safe use of them and the do's and dont's. A huge problem is that these can be bought over the net, or from pet shops etc, where there is no advice on how to fit it and cautions about the product, this is a major issue IMO. We can't just rely on buyers to actually read the directions thoroughly and take it all in.

Certainly head halters don't work for all dogs, and some learn how to pull on the halter too...which is the same for any product out there- not one fits all. Again though, I contrast with rewards for the dog taking notice of the correction of the halter....if the average Joe Citizen were to put it on with no contrast of positive or negative then I'm sure the dog will habituate and the halter loses it's effect.

They certainly work for some dogs but I am not convinced they are safe.

Certainly true of any equipment- not to pick apart your post kelpie-i, but I guess I would make the same strong statements about check/correction chains.

Mel.

Edited November 5, 2005 by StaffordsRule

[Kelpie-i]

It would be more effective IMO to explain the possible dangers.

In an ideal world, we would all have opportunities of advising buyers about potential risks associated with all equipment, but as SR puts it, these items are readily available at all pets stores, internet etc and people buy them thinking they are 100% safe. However SP, I understand what you mean. The same would go for all types of collars, leads etc.

Certainly true of any equipment- not to pick apart your post kelpie-i, but I guess I would make the same strong statements about check/correction chains

SR, no harm....it's a discussion right??? I detest correction chains at the best of times and it makes me cringe when I see them hanging up in the supermarket isle next to the puppy food. Any tool can be dangerous but unfortunately, the head halter "looks" safe and people are told they are "totally safe" by some trainers which can mislead people into thinking that they cannot do any harm to the dog. All it takes is for the dog to see something it wants to chase, fly on its gut instinct and wham!

Having said all that, I have recommended head halters to those I felt would benefit from them so I don't rule them out, but I do caution people about the possible dangers of them as I do all other equipment. I suppose I don't want to paint a pretty picture about something that could be harmfull if not used correctly.

[Staranais]

I'm not really a fan of head collars - mostly because of the safety aspect, but also because in my experience most dogs don't actually like them.

I also really don't like the way a lot of people use them. I have seen many people keep their dog on a halti year after year, because they haven't actually been putting any effort into training the dog to walk nicely. Since the problem is masked by the halti, they can't be bothered training their dog. To my mind, that's just wrong.

I also have seen a couple of dog trainers insist on forcing certain dogs to wear haltis, even though the dogs were clearly hating the experience. (I guess the trainers honestly believed that the halti was less "aversive" than a correction collar, even if it was clearly making that particular dog completely miserable?) Anyway, to my mind, that kind of thing is also really wrong. If a particular dog thinks a correction collar is less aversive than a halti, what's "positive" about forcing him into a halti?

I grant that a headcollar might be an effective management tools for particular dogs, to allow the dog to be walked until he is able to walk nicely on a loose leash and regular collar. But I'd probably recommend an anti-pull harness for this purpose before I'd recommend a headcollar. From what I have seen, the no-pull harnesses seem safer than a halti, as well as being more easily accepted by most dogs.

Like I said, that's just my opinion. My dog has a prong, and it suits us both fine.

*edited for sense and spelling!*

Edited November 5, 2005 by Amhailte

[Erny]

The only real problem are the ones who see the quick fix as a solution to all their problems and never return to training.  It happens...

Alot.

However, that's a fault of the handler/owner .... not the equipment. I'm not a fan of the headcollar (personally), probably because I have the experience and expertise (as many others do) to very quickly teach a dog not to pull, using other tools and methods. But I agree - if the headcollar will provide a handler who is otherwise going to 'give-up' on the whole deal (dog and all, sometimes!), with sufficient control to get the team (dog/owner) up and walking again, then it has a place.

Consequently, as a trainer and instructor, I make a point of researching (for better understanding of their concepts and proper use) and practicing with headcollars to be better able to at least help those who have elected to utilise them on their own dogs.

ETA: But I strongly urge these people to continue to work for improvement, and that includes weaning off from having to use the head-collar to maintain control.

Edited November 5, 2005 by Erny

[Kelpie-i]

NEWS JUST IN....

This morning we were invited to our local council's microchipping day to assist. One gentleman with his long-haired GSD was standing in line - his dog was wearing a halter. The GSD was doing his usual Shepherd sookie noises and this guy was tugging at the head halti like there was no tomorrow and yelling at the dog to shut up. With each tug (and he wasn't a slender fellow either), his dog's head was forced into very uncomfortable positions and the dog yelped a couple of times. After about 3 goes, I'd had enough of watching and went over to him and advised him of what he was doing etc etc etc.

I ended up taking the dog off him whilst he filled out his paperwork and played with the dog for a while....he was such a sweetie, and gave him back to the owner. As soon as I handed him back, the dog starts to sook again and guess what the owner goes and does all over again......

Yes I realise that it's not the tool but rather the human, but in my opinion a correction chain would have been alot kinder on this dog than constant jerking of his head.

[K9-Nutter]

.....because I have the experience and expertise (as many others do) to very quickly teach a dog not to pull, using other tools and methods.

Erny, care to share what those tools and methods may be??

[cavNrott]

.

Edited May 7, 2009 by cavNrott

[Kelpie-i]

Anne, if you'd read my post properly, I did approach and speak to him about his handling. I advised him of the rights and wrongs. I just didn't go into detail of what I said to him since I didn't want to type up an essay. He chose to ignore my recommendations and by force of habit, went back to doing what he originally did.

I also handed him a dog obedience school brochue and strongly suggested he look into it.

After attending obedience classes for some time with my strong, pulling dog I went the way of a Halti.....instant success. I did however have a private trainer at this point who fitted the collar and taught me the correct way to use it. The dog has now graduated to a martingale

Uh ha!

The start and stop method failed. The turn and walk the other way method failed. Only the Halti stopped the pulling at the time.

This is what is being stated in the posts. It is a quick fix which may or may not work for all dogs. In your case it did. What sort of collar did your private trainer use and what was the method employed?

Edited November 6, 2005 by Kelpie-i

[Rusky]

If owners sought professional advice and put a little training in, then teaching their dog not to pull on the lead certainly can be a quick fix, no need for the head halter

Agree!!

I always say the only reason a dog pulls is because the owners have let it!

yes but they don't train the dog, so when it is big and has huge paws and jumps up on everyone and generally is a pain in the ass they dump the dog. The juvenile with no training ends up in a shelter being adopted and those nice folk who gave the dog a second chance arrive at training school..... now what? should they have broken shoulders or would it be a better idea to fit a head collar?

alternate scenario

' if that dog doesn't learn some manners he is going to the vet for a one way trip'

the wife/daughter/son/ husband then arrives with said dog at training.

They can't be bothered taking dog for walk cos dog pulls, daughter would but dog pulls.

need any more scenarios? I have hundreds.

sadly not everyone trains their dog but there is no point moaning about it or giving them a lecture that will ensure they never go back to training and the dog is actually very important, his life can hang in the balance.

ok off soapbox, sorry but the one thing with dogs owners is that they are to be congratulated whenever they do the right thing by the dog and if there is a way to help them then we should.

Edited November 6, 2005 by Rusky

[Kelpie-i]

ok off soapbox, sorry but the one thing with dogs owners is that they are to be congratulated whenever they do the right thing by the dog and if there is a way to help them then we should.

Hi Rusky, smartest thing I've heard all day!