haven Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 Hey, Vickie, I am glad you are not a good quoter either. I wish I knew how to multiple quote. One day I will remember to ask a visitor. To do multiple quotes use the quote button located above where you type your post. Then highlight, copy and paste the section you wish to quote. The use the quote button again at the end. So it should look like the word quote in square brackets, then the writing you wish to quote followed by /quote again in brackets. Hope that makes sense, use the preview button down the bottom before you post to see if it works. Thankyou Amhailte, I've not forgotten t'was you who so patiently taught me how to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 Well, ..... at the risk of sending us too off topic (I'm sure we'll manage to return ) can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong when I try to change the font colour? I use the buttons at the top - have typed in the middle of and after, but no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 (edited) dunno I have never tried ETA:oooh how clever am I!!!!! choose your colour and click close all tags when you are done Edited November 5, 2005 by haven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 (edited) Did I do it? Eeegads! My word! I've got it! Didn't know about the "close all tags". Thanks Haven! Sorry for the hi-jack .... returning to normal transmission ..... Edited November 5, 2005 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 LL: How does a dog subsciously know what he/she/us want? K9: focus, control etc must be taught, but prey drive is a sunconscious desire to chase, not a learned event. LL: But then again, I have Stamp, who I did not praise/to release tension/drive enough. K9 force? K9: Stamps issue was compiled from several issues, not just lack of praise but thatw as certainly a factor of it. PJ: K9, do your dogs bark and carry on like Jyra does when it cannot get to a prey item that they desparately want? K9: no, in most circumstances they just increase their focus... But in bhite work they know to bark to make the decoy flush & run. PJ: That is, when she sees Lablovers dogs doing retreives (as you saw), when she is waiting for her turn to do lure coursing, etc. Also when I did as you suggested and had her tied out and I played with the ball. She does all this nonsense. K9: ok, my dogs may do that, unless I put them into an ob command. This goes away when the dog understands he or she has a turn. PJ: My question is, how do I control that without reducing her drive? K9: you do reduce her drive, save it for her turn... PJ: Another question, when the dog is holding the prey item, carrying it, is it still in drive? (I think so) And if so, what level/degree of drive is the dog in? (ie initialisation, peak, etc) K9: its getting satisfaction but often in initialisation if it feels you may grab the tug... YB: Ok question3minutes 3times a day seven day s aweek with dog tethered do you frustrate the dog and let him capture the prey oty now and again, never a lot K9: if the dog hasnt got a great desire to capture, you allow more captures, put a little bit of rough tug work in, then go again. As the dog gets more desire, yopu make it harder to capture... K: I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I got told at a herding seminar recently..."Quit praising that dog! She doesn't need it & you're just irritating her!" K9: when you over do it, its called praising to the point of distraction, when your teaching or relieving stress its a requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogibear Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Another question If your tieing the dog up and teasing the dog will be fighting against the pressure of the lead to get to the prey item but if you have a dog that has been taught well never to pull against its lead then what yb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 K9: the collar sgould be flat or harness, the tie out should angle toward ground, go to your dog & lift tie out high, so its a triangle from your hand to back tie to dog, Then walk away from the back tie keeping leash tension on all the time, at the end of the rope the dog may keep tension as you have introd the push pull response... Reward lunging & pulling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 LL: How does a dog subsciously know what he/she/us want? K9: focus, control etc must be taught, but prey drive is a sunconscious desire to chase, not a learned event. LL: I understand, thanks. LL: But then again, I have Stamp, who I did not praise/to release tension/drive enough. K9 force? K9: Stamps issue was compiled from several issues, not just lack of praise but thatw as certainly a factor of it. LL: Several issues? Could you expand please. I have no shame in letting others see your reply regarding in what you think my training errors were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 LL: LL: Several issues? Could you expand please. I have no shame in letting others see your reply regarding in what you think my training errors were. K9: ok, 1. I would guess that he worked out that he could go off & get his prey item, when he got it, he didnt want to give it to you. 2. This added stress, maybe slowed the recall, & he may have suffered the consequence for slow recall. 3. When he mouthed I guess he also was given a consequence for this, correction, cuff under chin perhaps? 4. At the end of many training episodes, it probably looked like you were ignoring all the good he could do, only focussing on what he didnt do right & correcting him for it. I will show you at retriever seminar how the dog should not even go out for the prey item on the ground, but he should go out, & come back, for the one behind your back... As for corrections, they are only useful when trying to correct something that is not pressure related, ie: dont add more pressure when excessive pressure is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 As for corrections, they are only useful when trying to correct something that is not pressure related, ie: dont add more pressure when excessive pressure is the problem. Would you clarify that with an example or 2? Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 K9 force: I will show you at retriever seminar how the dog should not even go out for the prey item on the ground, but he should go out, & come back, for the one behind your back...As for corrections, they are only useful when trying to correct something that is not pressure related, ie: dont add more pressure when excessive pressure is the problem. LL: I am already trembling, tingling, and NOW every hair is standing up on my back in excitement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 S: Would you clarify that with an example or 2? Please? K9: this isnt related to Lablovers dog, & I will preface to say, the level of training Lablover is at is far beyond anything short of Pro competitor level in a high discipline sport... ************** Ok, dog is given recall command, dog decides its more fun to go other direction, correction is fine to correct this. Add pressure to overcome distraction. 2. dog is given recall command, dog is scared of you, you dont add correction as dog wont come to you as it suffers pressure already... More pressure wont help... Simple. ********* LL: I am already trembling, tingling, and NOW every hair is standing up on my back in excitement. K9: lol.. well it isnt hard, once you get the concept. None of the dogs I bite train chase the man as the ultimate reward.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 (edited) Simple. Yup, those examples clarify heaps and make it simple to understand. Thanks. I will show you at retriever seminar how the dog should not even go out for the prey item on the ground, but he should go out, & come back, for the one behind your back... This would also be related to what flyball dogs do: get the ball and bring it back for the tug (or whatever the trainer has). Edited November 7, 2005 by sidoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 (edited) S": This would also be related to what flyball dogs do: get the ball and bring it back for the tug (or whatever the trainer has). K9: yes, its called making a deal with the dog. You get my ball & I will let you play with my toy. Its why I dont teach the forced retrieve, I want the dog to want yo get the dumbell, not get it cause he has too. Edited November 7, 2005 by K9 Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herding_guy Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I got told at a herding seminar recently..."Quit praising that dog! She doesn't need it & you're just irritating her!"I think what he was trying to say is that for her the work itself is the reward & every time I stopped to praise her, I was really interrupting her work unnecessarily and for her it was almost a negative thing rather than a positive one. I can clarify why you shouldn't praise a dog too much when herding. 1/ Yes, the dog is being rewarded already by chasing the sheep, ducks, catle. 2/ It is "natural training" and you shouldn't confuse the dogs with too many words. Use only th ecommands you want and short quick praise. 3/ If your praise words have been conditioned via pats and/or food the average obedience / pet dog reduces prey drive and takes his eyes off the sheep and loses control. Praises are to be used for encouragement only. THe praise word should be short (YES!) and should be given in an elavated high tone to increase or maintain predatory drive in the dog. Read your dog - if you are distracting him change your methods. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogibear Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Ok have been following your advice for two days and now have Connor racing out to the area where i have tethered him because he has cottoned on what we are going to do He dives and throws himself at the toy in a sock used the sock to make it good for tug games I am using a switch on workd tug time before we start and then telling him that will do when im finished. sister came over today he usually goes nuts for her to say hi but i headed for the backdoor as she came up the drive he raced out the door and ran over to where we have been playing so i guess he was hoping to play the game again i didnt do it though in case his drive wasnt strong enough yet to overcome her being there . Does it sound like im doing it right im certainly happy with the keeness im getting from him yb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 K9: yes, now do this until the time is up, whether you feel that you will get more from him isnt important, your buidling a foundation, without a good foundation the training will be weak... When your done with this, its time to drop the tie out & take this to the next level, which is ob command requires completion before he can win. So train the sit command in drive. With me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogibear Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 so for one week Ok the other thing he doing is hanging around in the house lying at my feet to sleep rather than wandering off so its obviously doing more than just building drive yb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogibear Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 One other thing so i did the right thing not risking losing him to a dig distraction. Also in your opinion does dexeing have an effect on the way a dog works there is a big difference between handlin a stallion to a gelding do you find this with dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 K9: I never try to cure a behaviour problem by cutting things off dogs... I dont think there is much difference really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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