Prey Drive Control & Focus..

[Australdi]

if as you said working a dog in security automatically has the dog declared dangerous and not the training...why would the council or police give a hoot if your dog is protection trained if it was never worked in the security industry?

...I was making enquiries at the time about working him (as a side line)

i cant think of a working line dobermann breeder in victoria that doesnt either own or manage a security company, yet there dogs are not declared dangerous...so i dont know why there was fuss around your dog... I do know breeders of working line dogs, who have nothing to do with the security industry, apart from supplying pups. Owning & managing a security company is quite an extensive & costly procedure to undertake in Victoria...I know this, as I was 3/4 through doing this when public liability insurance became exhorbitant, and had to abort my plans due to lack of working capital. :p

Maybe the constraints have been relaxed in the last nine years....the revised dog act was very new when I first made enquiries...so maybe the interpretations were not fully decided upon at the time either :D

I don't know...I stopped persuing it after 6 months of getting no-where.

cheers

Aus

[Steve K9Pro]

D: I am after some help with my Kelpie.

I seem to have a personality clash with my dog and I need to fix it.

I play games with her (that she likes), I train her (no corrections as she is very soft), I feed her and take her places, I do all the things she likes but it is like she doesn't trust me or like me much.

K9: all of these things she likes arent free, she needs to come to an agreement with you how much (attention) she has to pay for them.

She acts scared of me often and won't come near me if I have anything in my hand. Whether it is a phone, a pen, anything except food. She always knows when I have food even if I hide it before i go out the door.

K9: she could have a low threshold to avoidance behaviours which will take some time to over come... I also dont know her history...

I live on a rural block too with no fences and I have had dogs for 20 years and they have never wandered away until now. If I turn my back to go inside for more than 5 mins she runs away. She does go to a house up the road with little JRT's to play. I have asked the owners to chase her away and send her home however they think she is a lovely dog and don't mind her coming. My other dogs are here she can play with but she just goes up the driveway and up the street.

K9: no two dogs are the same, some are alike.

I now have to confine her in a small pen now which she seems to spend 90%of her time in as she can't be trusted to hang around.

K9: she needs to be trained, not trusted though...

I need some help in trying to make our relationship a better one as I can't understand why she is always thinking the worst when I want her. When I ask her to come its like she has to think about it and you can see the stress in her head as to what she should do.

K9: ask? this is one problem, there is no asking in training...

[dasha]

K9: ask? this is one problem, there is no asking in training...

I used that word as if I say "I command her" people will assume I am being too firm in my tone for a soft dog. The command I use is Come and she does understand it however she still has the conflict in her head as I explained. She does come but it is with her behaviour showing she is ready to turn around and run away if I was to change my posture or eye movements. She always is rewarded for coming whether it be with praise, pat, food, game. She is not "asked" to do anything, she is directed to do it and I expect her to comply.

She doesn't really get anything for free I don't think.

When I do prey drive stuff with her she really sparks up and isn't scared of me at all as it really gets her going.

[Sparty]

this is from a thread earlier (hope the link works)

Protection Training

Protection training is defined as training a dog to attack people or animals and includes the training of a dog to attack a human wearing padded protective clothing for any purpose including sport. It is not considered appropriate for a member of the community who is not a licensed security guard to have access to an attack trained dog and this is reflected in the strict provisions of the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act. Dogs that have received this type of training will be declared as a dangerous dog by a Council.

DPI link

[Australdi]

this is from a thread earlier (hope the link works)

Protection Training

Protection training is defined as training a dog to attack people or animals and includes the training of a dog to attack a human wearing padded protective clothing for any purpose including sport. It is not considered appropriate for a member of the community who is not a licensed security guard to have access to an attack trained dog and this is reflected in the strict provisions of the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act. Dogs that have received this type of training will be declared as a dangerous dog by a Council.

DPI link

Thanks for the link sparty...maybe the rules haven't relaxed at all. I was a licenced guard, so that wasn't the issue, but it would have cost me $ (due to having to build dog run)to admit that Daim's was trained & espcially if I worked him.

BTW...how old was that quote? just for interests sake?

Aus

[Sparty]

do a search on sparty there is a thread i started re shutzhund training the link is on page 3 which should take you dept prim industries web site i think thread was from a few months ago

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: I think what were getting at is, you dont leave the training round with a declaration, just like every time you speed in your car a fine dont appear...

[smokeysue]

Ok Herr, Ice and i are entered in the Masters Games on Oct 7 in Qld. CCD. He is doing just fine except when on the recall. He just strolls up to me. All the other dogs are already in front of their owners and he is still coming. I have tried jumping around and in a silly voice singing come Ice and, hmm, yeah mum coming in my own good time. I asked you about 3 years ago about getting him going as he was so badly abused he was in fear drive i think. Got him over that and he really enjoys other dogs and people now,but does it in his own good time. Wont play with toys, never has. Food? Well not interested. He will do all i want but in his own time. lovely dog, but can't get him exicited. Help.

[Lablover]

I LOVE training, when is it MY turn?

[J...]

He's not keen at all is he LL?

I have a question.... hope its not a stupid one but here goes. Been reading/watching a lot on agility training etc, and motivation either by toy or food.

Is there any difference in motivation for the toy as used in agility, and prey drive as used by many on this forum? Seems to me that there is... i.e the toy is the reward but whether that is just a "fun" thing as opposed to a prey item? I've just seen a few dogs that aren't that reliable, some at quite high levels i.e easily distracted, that if they were in prey drive they would be more reliable? Or am I barking up the wrong tree so to speak?

[Rom]

He's not keen at all is he LL?

I have a question.... hope its not a stupid one but here goes. Been reading/watching a lot on agility training etc, and motivation either by toy or food.

Is there any difference in motivation for the toy as used in agility, and prey drive as used by many on this forum? Seems to me that there is... i.e the toy is the reward but whether that is just a "fun" thing as opposed to a prey item? I've just seen a few dogs that aren't that reliable, some at quite high levels i.e easily distracted, that if they were in prey drive they would be more reliable? Or am I barking up the wrong tree so to speak? ;)

Hi Feralpup, yes there is a difference (I can say this very confidently now since our K9 workshop weekend before last.) Using a motivator as a reward does not teach the dog to have the strength of mind to move in and out of drive as needed. The drive development period with a prey item does this.

For eg, I was talking to an agility competitor regarding this stuff the other night and she said that she won't use a ball in training but uses a tug toy instead because her dog goes nutso for the ball and she can't keep his attention to train when she has a ball. In K9s method, the dog gets to choose the thing that it goes nutso about, you tease him with it and build his frustration over trying to get it so he is in pure drive, and then you show him how easy it is to get by allowing him to capture it when he performs the actions that you require. But you set the circumstances up so that the dog literally falls into the right action to catch the prey.

All of the drive development exercises are based on how a dog would become an effective hunter for the pack....so if you think of a pup that initially chases any thing that moves it doesn't score well on the catch scale, as it gets older, it has to start thinking about different ways to go about catching things....and the dog is already hard wired to learn this because of thousands of years of natural selection....if it didn't then it wouldn't be an effective hunter and the dog would have become extinct. So let the dog work itself into a frenzy trying to catch something for a while and then show it an easier way to get it. Dog will always learn to expend the least possible energy to catch a prey item. So if you own the prey item and you select the criteria under which the prey item can be caught 100% of the time, then the dog will always look to you for drive satisfaction because all of the other distractions do not guarantee a 100% return on investment of time and energy. This whole system gives you a much more reliable dog.

The thing that you need to attend a K9 workshop for is the exact exercises to perform the drive development and also an assessment of your dog for the best way to apply them to your situation.

How'd I go K9?

[Lablover]

He's not keen at all is he LL?

He is revolting I stand out of the way when he comes out of his crate throwing saliva everywhere. Yuck. Peppa his litter sister simply performs back flips.

All my dogs drool before being sent to retrieve. The longer I keep them by my side, after voice and body cueing, the LONGER the drool. Yuck. Yuck. Yuck. ;)

[m-j]

All my dogs drool before being sent to retrieve. The longer I keep them by my side, after voice and body cueing, the LONGER the drool. Yuck. Yuck. Yuck.

Welllll I suppose that's what you get for controlling your dogs fun and good times.

cheers

M-J

[MonElite]

OK I need some help (again )

My girls recall is so fast that its scary. She is a 25kg pure bone and musce canon ball that has no intentions of stopping, and is happy about it.

When she was smaller when training her Id throw the ball between my legs so that she would run full speed to me.

Now she grew up and obviously still considers that she can just run between my legs to get the ball.

So I have been sort of moving out of her way, or having the ball at the front of me, giving the sit command just before she arrives etc. Well Im bruised, Im scratched, I have half of my hand taken off at each and every arrival, or I hide the ball behind my back resulting in her lunging at my face to kiss me

Its all good but this business of me kissing the ground on occasion basically becomes dangerous, I dont want to slow her down by reducing her drive, but how do I?

Not that you can see much in

of what happens to me but it might give you some idea. This is a short distance and she havent reached her full speed. Edited October 3, 2006 by myszka

[dogdude]

sorry! server problems

Edited October 3, 2006 by dogdude

[dogdude]

Hi Myszka

Not sure if this question is directed to K9, but I would perhaps try rewarding maybe every second recall, and possibly stand against a wall to make sure she wont run past you.

If this didnt work you could perhaps create a little obstacle close in to where she is required to stop, by placing some broad jumps on their edges, fashioned into a slight funnell shape that ends just in front of your feet. She would have to navigate her way a bit slower to avoid a collision, and sit in a pefectly straight position in front. (I used a couple of bricks for a gate to force a straight sit)

I dont think that these methods would affect her drive status, but I have not yet tried the prey drive method.

[MonElite]

Thanks.

Since I attempt to train as K9 prescribes I of course want his reply as well, but there are several people here that train in drive so I direct my questions to everyone, its nice to see what people do and how they do it.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: to keep drive you must remove motivation by asking for excercises that dont bring reward.

If your dog is returning in prey drive, when she is 10 feet from you, start to pull your prey item out of your jacket or pocket & move it slowly higher & higher with the sit command.

The dog needs to leave drive peak & go into initialisation & think about the sit, then back into peak to complete the sit....

[MonElite]

The dog needs to leave drive peak & go into initialisation & think about the sit, then back into peak to complete the sit....

for now she runs up to me, I move the ball higher and higher and she uses me as a springboard to get to it. Mind you she never succeeded in grabbing it out of my hand.

Gotta love her.

Just as a note, so far I have not trained her to sit after the recall, the recall itself was the excercise, so I rewarded her for making it all the way to me. Im now at the next step of asking for more.

Ok I think I need more focus work.

[Lablover]

All my dogs drool before being sent to retrieve. The longer I keep them by my side, after voice and body cueing, the LONGER the drool. Yuck. Yuck. Yuck.

Welllll I suppose that's what you get for controlling your dogs fun and good times.

cheers

M-J

Yep, that's what its all about, - drive, control, focus. Yank and Yo are in their first retrieving trial this weekend. Eeeeeeeeeeck!!!! It is be an interesting, at say the least!!! I train, train, train, train and intermittently test (in training). Both have very good drive. Regarding their control.........well, that will be another matter in an extremely exciting situation. Both broke yesterday - meaning they went to retrieve, without a command!!!