Prey Drive Control & Focus..

[whatevah]

1st Question.

My flatcoated retriever does flying leaps into the water. I always check the water depth before letting him do this. Was wondering if this hurts the dog when he lands in the water. About 3ft high bank is about the highest we do. I know if we do a bally wacker it hurts us. I also know that the dogs feet probably break the impact of the water.

2nd Question

My toller loves toys, so much so that if someone reaches their arm up in the air with the toy, then starts daydreaming or starts talking, he will just leap up and snatch it out of their hand. At a dog club I go to, they stop now and then for a play session, he will be focused on every one elses toy but mine, so I try to make sure that my toy is more interesting, and squeaks louder. Now I don't want to destroy the toy drive, but in the last week I have been rewarding him with food to pay attention to me during the toy part of the lesson. Will this destroy his toy drive? People get upset when he suddenly charges off to play with their toys. I often play games with him such as two toys, also before he gets his food or his toy thrown, he has to do something for me such as sit, drop, bow, roll over, wave, walk backwards etc. This is also how I taught to weave in agility.

3rd Question

I throw two balls into the lake, I have two dogs, the toller will swim over to both of the balls, and sit there treading water juggling balls. He wants both the balls so badly that he cannot leave one behind, even though his mouth can only fit one ball. Yesterday he even tried having one ball in his mouth and moving the other ball with his chest, and he ended up swimming around in circles, till my other dog, swam out and got the other ball. Is there some type of training I can do, to get him to realise that he can only get one toy. On land he will do the same thing, run with one ball, take it to the other ball, and lie down on the ground juggling. When I do the two squeakies game I have to take the item out of his mouth on the return.

4th Question

In flyball he is more motivated for the ball then my motivator. We have tried every motivator on the market. I have tried calling him to me and trying to make my motivator more motivating but it doesn't work. But if no ball in site, he will play a good game of tug, or play with other toys. But ball seems to be number one. Have found in flyball he will cross to the other lane to try and get that ball out of the box if he thinks he can beat the other dog to it. Our club only trains with one lane, so it makes it very hard.

[Steve K9Pro]

TD:

Was wondering if this hurts the dog when he lands in the water. About 3ft high bank is about the highest we do.

K9: only the dog can tell you that, if it keeps jumping off, Im guessing it isnt hurting too much.

TD:

My toller loves toys, so much so that if someone reaches their arm up in the air with the toy, then starts daydreaming or starts talking, he will just leap up and snatch it out of their hand.

K9: any dog with drive for a toy will do that, because it can

The dog should make many attempts & fail.

TD:

At a dog club I go to, they stop now and then for a play session, he will be focused on every one elses toy but mine, so I try to make sure that my toy is more interesting, and squeaks louder. Now I don't want to destroy the toy drive, but in the last week I have been rewarding him with food to pay attention to me during the toy part of the lesson. Will this destroy his toy drive?

K9": it wont destroy it but it switches it off.

I would guess that the club wants the dogs in play or prey drive to clear their head for more training.

TD:

People get upset when he suddenly charges off to play with their toys. I often play games with him such as two toys, also before he gets his food or his toy thrown, he has to do something for me such as sit, drop, bow, roll over, wave, walk backwards etc. This is also how I taught to weave in agility.

K9: this dog understands that there is prey drive satisfaction available form sources other than you, to successfully train in prey drive, you need to demninish this.

TD:

I throw two balls into the lake, I have two dogs, the toller will swim over to both of the balls, and sit there treading water juggling balls. He wants both the balls so badly that he cannot leave one behind, even though his mouth can only fit one ball. Yesterday he even tried having one ball in his mouth and moving the other ball with his chest, and he ended up swimming around in circles, till my other dog, swam out and got the other ball. Is there some type of training I can do, to get him to realise that he can only get one toy.

K9: its too complicated, have one dog down stay, then throw one ball, have the other fetch, when he gets back he down stays & the other goes..

TD:

In flyball he is more motivated for the ball then my motivator. We have tried every motivator on the market.

K9: this dog needs to stop flyball, go back into prey drive development for your motivator, & that only until he lives for that, then he will work well in flyball.

[Lablover]

1st Question.

My flatcoated retriever does flying leaps into the water.  I always check the water depth before letting him do this.  Was wondering if this hurts the dog when he lands in the water.  About 3ft high bank is about the highest we do.  I know if we do a bally wacker it hurts us.  I also know that the dogs feet probably break the impact of the water. 

If you are worried about him hurting himself, stand closer to the bank or simply do not throw from high banks. It is a concern especially in retriever trials and the dogs have a high jump water entry. Or do not throw as high or throw shorter.

In training I am very careful where I place hidden articles as well as marks, as in cloudy water there is no way of knowing if a branch or dangerous object is hidden from our view. The number one reason I train in known safe areas. Public areas are also a worry as fish hooks/glass may be left.

2nd Question

My toller loves toys, so much so that if someone reaches their arm up in the air with the toy, then starts daydreaming or starts talking, he will just leap up and snatch it out of their hand.

I try to have my dogs so focused on me and with conditioning and knowing satisfaction is achieved thus, have no interest in what else is going on around them. Focus!|!|!!|!|

I would correct any dog of mine, if they tried to achieve satisfaction from another dogs toy.

3rd Question

I throw two balls into the lake, I have two dogs, the toller will swim over to both of the balls, and sit there treading water juggling balls.  He wants both the balls so badly that he cannot leave one behind, even though his mouth can only fit one ball.  Yesterday he even tried having one ball in his mouth and moving the other ball with his chest, and he ended up swimming around in circles, till my other dog, swam out and got the other ball.  Is there some type of training I can do, to get him to realise that he can only get one toy.  On land he will do the same thing, run with one ball, take it to the other ball, and lie down on the ground juggling.  When I do the two squeakies game I have to take the item out of his mouth on the return.

This is a handler issue and how the dogs have been trained. Each dog, would be expected on land (then in water), if a pile of bumpers were in place, to return with one bumper only. A good recall, JUST as the dog is about to pick up the bumper is important. My labs after training and cooling off know if I allow them in a group to retrieve happy bumpers it is open season. Often I wonder if I am accidently creating a bad habit.

[yogibear]

Hi K9 question with the toyon a string do you then go to the tieback once you have got some interest?

Connor is coming along lovely did a little atthe park overtheroad did what you said heeled him from the back to the front of the house keeping him focussed i dont hink he realised we changed locations lol.

am getttting some very lovey extended trotting which i have decided is now my aim to get that long strided flowing movement right through the heel pattern It looks spectacular and becasue he is so foccussed keepis him on track I have the picture of what i want in my head now to get sometips to keep me in a straight line and we'll be set

[Steve K9Pro]

Hi K9 question with the toyon a string do you then go to the tieback once you have got some interest?

K9: Development is with the back tie, for ob I dont usually go back to it, unless there is a break or something has gone wrong & the dog has lost drive.

In your case I would have a good heel in drive & start to carry the ball in your right hand for a few reps, int if you can, if you see the dog loosing focus 180 turn, but you turn to your left, provided the dog is there, this means the dog has to run around you ok?

Soon as the dog gets around to your left hand side, use your right hand to throw the ball into the ground behind your right side.

The dog is allowed to capture it, I recommend a good long line 18 - 25 footer on the dog for this work, we have them.

This teaches th dog to maintain focus longer, & to 180 fast.

The nest stage is full focus where delays are added to increase focal time over speed.

[yogibear]

sorry that questionwasnt related to connor i saw you mention the toy on the string to someone else to get some interes and was wondering what the next step wud be with a dog that required that to get interst

are you talking pivot left abouts i dont use them i prefer the military ft about where teh dog stays in heel and moves around the turn with me.. Though i do use both finishes around and flip Hes going great guns got some amazing heeling today and his right about was spot onive always felt the pivot left about is just another right about turn whereas a really well executed military left about shows the dogs abiity to maintain position on both does that make sense

yb

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: when you turn into the left this encourages the dog to move fast, later when you switch the dog wont mind.

If your bring your dog on Sat I will show you.

[yogibear]

when i train with food and toys o a lot of throwing off to the sides on turns to get the dog to move round quickly i think you are talking about the same type of thing

cant bring connor with me the lady who is giving me a lift already has three in the car will have to borow someones dog for a demo

yb

Edited November 16, 2005 by yogibear

[yogibear]

Yesterday i did some trianing with connor and the results connor gave me working on heel sit and down with the vaccum cleaner being used he loves to chase the vaccum yet yesterday he didnt even think about it he has started to outhink me as soon as something that excites him happens he is running to me with expectation of playiing with his toy.

If i can get that on the road boy will i be a happy chook lol

[Dol_sam]

Hi all,

Well after a solid hour of reading, I've finally got to the end of this thread. Fantastic. My brain is burning up! I can't wait to start doing some foundation work with our dogs. Our BC is already quite strong on pack and prey drives so it shoudl be a fairly easy process.

However I have a question with regards to our other dog. He's a ridgeback cross husky and we got him when he was 6 months old. He fits the exact description of a weak nerved dog that was described in that GSD link (excellent article too!). He is now nearly 2 years old and has managed to progress past the beginners class at obedience (yay!) but his main problem is that he's very nervous of people who he's unfamiliar with (amoung other things such as things in the sky, overhead lights going on at night etc...wierdo). So this makes working him in public difficult as his attention is completely shot as soon as there are people working next to us, and even worse when they are behind us. We think he was very poorly socialised as a baby, and it's all just fear of the unknown, and while he has improved quite a lot he's still hitting a brick wall when he's under pressure. Thankfully he's not the sort to turn to aggression, he just wants to hide.

So my question is, if we can build a prey drive in him, do you think this would go a fair way to helping him work better in situations that he's not so confident?

Any special hints for working with this kind of dog?

Thanks in advance, and thanks for all the great info so far!

Sam

[Lablover]

K9 (I hope you find this question),

Firstly thankyou very much for your retrieving seminar.

You know my views in training using drive.

I like always, have been pondering again.

Could you please state the % again of reliablity using compulsion training, training in drive and a combination of both.

I was reading during lunch a link which stated positive only resulted in 70% reliability (the article was a little vague regarding the dogs requirements).

[yogibear]

Hmm this is interesting where did you find the article. iwould like to read it even if it is bit vague

Sam i think there a few people using prey drive to help overcome nervousness when out If you can get the drive high enough to get and keep him there while the scarey thing is about then yes it would help

yb

[Lablover]

Hmm this is interesting where did you find the article. iwould like to read it even if it is bit vague

Sam i think there a few people using prey drive to help overcome nervousness when out If you can get the drive high enough to get and keep him there while the scarey thing is about then yes it would help

yb

Y|B,

Here is one similar:

http://www.dog-trainer.biz/dogtrainingarti...ivevscompulsion

[Steve K9Pro]

LL:

I like always, have been pondering again.

K9: Uh oh.. lol..

LL:

Could you please state the % again of reliablity using compulsion training, training in drive and a combination of both.

K9: I can state my experience in the two. I have found when I have the right dog, with good nerves, good foundation & I have the availability of corrections if I need t go there, I can get a 100% reliable dog in the situations I have trained for.

LL:

I was reading during lunch a link which stated positive only resulted in 70% reliability (the article was a little vague regarding the dogs requirements).

K9: I have read similar, however, positive doesnt always, hardly often in fact go inot in depth training in prey drive, the results are also based on every dog that they tested, & weak nerved or dogs with low drives wont be nearly as reliable.

When I spoke of the forced retrieve vs the motivational retrieve, I feel that motivational will get you 95% of the points that you could get with Forced fetch, however, the problems the bleed over into the excercises both before & after the forced fetch have me prefer the motivational (prey drive) retrieve.

[yogibear]

quick update

Connors two favorite things in the world are chasing waves and being rude with his grlfriend dog lol

Today we went to the beach with my sister and her dog connors girlfriend

I asked him for a sit and let him have his toy then let him chase waves went well after tat i would ask for something then reward then sometimes let hims chase waves sometimes ask for something else he was fantastic since he has developed stronger prey drive and has learnt that he can satifsfy his prey drive through listening to me he was happy to work for me even with the waves crashing and his girlfriend sooking and barking at him because he didnt want to play with her We even did a couple of short stints of heeling on the wet sand and recalls off wave chasing something i thought i'd always struggle to get him to leave

yb

[Lablover]

LL:

I like always, have been pondering again.

K9: Uh oh.. lol..

LL:

I like always, have been pondering again.

K9: Uh oh.. lol..

K9,

You are plain and simply irritating -- not.

Just when I think I have "it" all worked out, after trips overseas, organising international trainers to hold seminars in Australia, buying books, videos and making multiple phone calls, you, give me more great ideas to ponder.

I thank you again, and if my dogs could talk or type they would thank you also, LOL.

Edited November 23, 2005 by Lablover

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: they can talk & the did thank me...

I am working on some of those "ideas" that I mentioned right now..

Is that a trigger for you????

[Lablover]

I am working on some of those "ideas" that I mentioned right now..

Damm, do not tell everyone. I would like to keep an edge somehow, at least for a month or two, before I tell everyone, as I cannot help myself spreading good ideas.

[Steve K9Pro]

LL":

Damm, do not tell everyone.

K9: ok I post them here?

LL:

I would like to keep an edge somehow

K9: Your handling skills & commitment plus that boy of yours are all the edge you need....

[Lablover]

Go ahead. Post away. When I organised the first seminar, many a trainer said to me, you are a fool, you should keep all you have learnt to yourself!!!

Regarding my handling. This this is so full to bullsheet ego - when the first judge commented that I was the best handler he had ever seen, I was horrified. The dog he was judging must have performed well that day, LOL.