Prey Drive Control & Focus..

[Steve K9Pro]

K: Part of the drive issue is permission to be in drive. For most of her life I've indicated that only low levels of drive are acceptable, given the livestock work and traditional herding training.

K9: look I know its only terminology but when I erad it like you have written, it is drive limiting just to think that way...

What should control the dogs drive is the dog, not your permission, I allow the dog to do as many dumb things as it likes until the dog decides that the best way to achieve drive satisfaction is my way, not me issuing or revoking permission..

K: From a pack standpoint, would she tug with the alpha? No

K9: wrong, she would its about prey drive not rank drive. Once the alpha allows prey drive to exist, it becomes part of the alphas desired behaviours..

K: From a pack standpoint, would she tug with the alpha? No. So a lot of my focus had been aimed at getting her to engage in the tug and BE in drive. So reducing my alphaness was one way. A companion to this was even seeing a toy as a prey item. So we went from zero interest to her seeing it as something of value; i.e. now she at least wants to possess it and win it. If she's intitiating the game--okay maybe that's a dominant feature---but now she's looking to me for satisfaction?

K9: maybe? or looking for a way to reduce your alpha status with this game perhaps? I dont know as I cant see her... But, even if it is working, what I was on about was, your starting to get results, but results with flaws built in if you get my drift?

K: I haven't worked her according to a Program. I was thinking that I may be reaching a point where I could work her within a program and what I read of yours seemed ideal.

K9: this work can be a little tricky without all the steps, it will always look like results are coming but good results are another thing.

As I mentioned, my total program isnt anywhere you could read it as such, we do run distance learning programs but they are designed individually.

K: Anyway, we can't travel from the US to Australia so I won't be able to attend a clinic. I was wondering if you had a video series like what I've seen of Balabanov.

K9: sorry I wasnt aware of where you were, & no I just havent had the time to put together a video... The problem I guess I have with videos are that they often only show how it goes when things run to plan, not what probably will happen in your home...

K: Our schutzhund club uses a form of drive training. Your program seemed to presuppose an attaction to something and using it as a motivator where the dog does what the handler wants to obtain access to it and satisfy his drive.

K9: Any style of training where adrenalin flows is technically training in drive, even stressing a dog in avoidance is training in drive, there are training methods that teach the dog to act in a way that achieves drive satisfaction through the handler & there are programs that use a drive reward, to me & to your dog, they can all vary greatly...

[kyndaara]

K: Part of the drive issue is permission to be in drive. For most of her life I've indicated that only low levels of drive are acceptable, given the livestock work and traditional herding training.

K9: look I know its only terminology but when I erad it like you have written, it is drive limiting just to think that way...

What should control the dogs drive is the dog, not your permission, I allow the dog to do as many dumb things as it likes until the dog decides that the best way to achieve drive satisfaction is my way, not me issuing or revoking permission..

I KNOW. Again, this is traditional herding training and her history vs. ideal. Due to her history, she doesn't think that DRIVE is allowed. That's what I have sought to change.

K: From a pack standpoint, would she tug with the alpha? No

K9: wrong, she would its about prey drive not rank drive. Once the alpha allows prey drive to exist, it becomes part of the alphas desired behaviours..

Again, the alpha [me] didn't allow it to exist or develop it from puppyhood and indicated with other training [i.e. w/ livestock] it wasn't desired--therefore, it extinguished somewhat. The issue has been can I revive it.

K: From a pack standpoint, would she tug with the alpha? No. So a lot of my focus had been aimed at getting her to engage in the tug and BE in drive. So reducing my alphaness was one way. A companion to this was even seeing a toy as a prey item. So we went from zero interest to her seeing it as something of value; i.e. now she at least wants to possess it and win it. If she's intitiating the game--okay maybe that's a dominant feature---but now she's looking to me for satisfaction?

K9: maybe? or looking for a way to reduce your alpha status with this game perhaps? I dont know as I cant see her... But, even if it is working, what I was on about was, your starting to get results, but results with flaws built in if you get my drift?

Yes, I get your drift [i.e. results w/ flaws]. This is why I felt I needed a PROGRAM.

K: I haven't worked her according to a Program. I was thinking that I may be reaching a point where I could work her within a program and what I read of yours seemed ideal.

K9: this work can be a little tricky without all the steps, it will always look like results are coming but good results are another thing.

As I mentioned, my total program isnt anywhere you could read it as such, we do run distance learning programs but they are designed individually.

K: Anyway, we can't travel from the US to Australia so I won't be able to attend a clinic. I was wondering if you had a video series like what I've seen of Balabanov.

K9: sorry I wasnt aware of where you were, & no I just havent had the time to put together a video... The problem I guess I have with videos are that they often only show how it goes when things run to plan, not what probably will happen in your home...

Understood.

K: Our schutzhund club uses a form of drive training. Your program seemed to presuppose an attaction to something and using it as a motivator where the dog does what the handler wants to obtain access to it and satisfy his drive.

K9: Any style of training where adrenalin flows is technically training in drive, even stressing a dog in avoidance is training in drive, there are training methods that teach the dog to act in a way that achieves drive satisfaction through the handler & there are programs that use a drive reward, to me & to your dog, they can all vary greatly...

Yes. I was hoping to establish one and then eventually get to the other.

[Steve K9Pro]

K: I KNOW. Again, this is traditional herding training and her history vs. ideal. Due to her history, she doesn't think that DRIVE is allowed. That's what I have sought to change.

K9: yeah it can be a tricky one, some believe that the dog will never reach its genetic potential if it has had negative reactions to drive...

K: Again, the alpha [me] didn't allow it to exist or develop it from puppyhood and indicated with other training [i.e. w/ livestock] it wasn't desired--therefore, it extinguished somewhat. The issue has been can I revive it.

K9: try a few different methods, like restricting all other activities to zero for a while, reducing the dogs options for drive satisfaction to your toy & your toy alone, no walks, no other training & very little interaction can have a big improvement..

[kyndaara]

K: I KNOW. Again, this is traditional herding training and her history vs. ideal. Due to her history, she doesn't think that DRIVE is allowed. That's what I have sought to change.

K9: yeah it can be a tricky one, some believe that the dog will never reach its genetic potential if it has had negative reactions to drive...

K: Again, the alpha [me] didn't allow it to exist or develop it from puppyhood and indicated with other training [i.e. w/ livestock] it wasn't desired--therefore, it extinguished somewhat. The issue has been can I revive it.

K9: try a few different methods, like restricting all other activities to zero for a while, reducing the dogs options for drive satisfaction to your toy & your toy alone, no walks, no other training & very little interaction can have a big improvement..

Hi:

I've appreciated your thoughts. When I started this, I decided that I was going to have to put the livestock training on hold if I was going to to try this type of training. So we are doing what you suggested above. I don't know how much drive we can bring back to the surface and how consistent but its worth a try. The other night I tied a sheepskin tug to a sort of fishing pole/line gadget I rigged to take me out of the picture, somewhat and wallah. I'm also able to make the toy much more prey like. She was really interested. Now I have to learn to work for just a few minutes and quit while she's still highly interested. I have a BAD habit of doing things too long. I'll do more when it warms up around here. I really need to work with her outside in an open space.

Again, thanks. I'll report in with an update.

Kyndaara

[sporti]

Toilet Duck, here are the drive swtiches:

Looking at the ball awaiting your throw: prey (play)

Chasing the other dog away: defence

Coming back to you: pack

Looking at the ball again: prey(play)

I would say there would be a small section of intermingled drives between his initial inention on the ball and deciding to chase the barking dog away.

Thankyou for this post. It is the most singularly imformative practical explanation, that my lightbulb lit up then:)