Prey Drive Control & Focus..

[jesomil]

One night a friend had a laser light with them and my older Kelpie spent about 15 minutes chasing it.

Since that one night about two years ago, she has been super sensitive to shadows and light movement. She sometimes stands there looking at the ground with her ears flicking around. It seems to have done damage to her.

[Jeff Jones]

i dont know anyone who owns personal protection dogs or schutzhund trained dogs who has declared there dogs as dangerous,

otherwise at schutzhund competitions you would have to have your dog on lead the whole time and do the bite work with a muzzle on your dog...kind of defeats the purpose

[Australdi]

K9: no they are not declared anything just yet...

They have never been out of control hence not declared dangerous...

thanks thats exactly what I though, but reading Aus I thought that perhaps every dog that is trained to bite HAS to be declared dnagerous.

NOTE....experience of Victorian laws only

It's not the bite training that has them declared...it's working them as security/guard dogs that immediately puts them into the declared category (I researched every way I could to get around this law as it stood at the time! ) getting them licenced to work also involves building a a specialised dog run with full concrete flooring...which I was quoted would cost aprox $4000!

because I owned a dobe....and was well known by the local rangers through my father's occupation....they continually checked to make sure I wasn't working Daims....I also think they were a bit suspicious when they observed his behaviour in crowd situations...he was too well behaved :D heeheehe

hence my decision not to "work" with my dog as we would only be getting $45 ph (I was already earning more than that by myself! ...in corporate....and 1/2 that in crowd control.)

hope that clears it up.

Aus

[Kavik]

I did my security licence course earlier this year and enquired about the dog handling, especially if I would need a special enclosure etc and the company said no, only fencing that you would need for any other dog.

[Australdi]

A: admittedly, I could have taken his training even further.

K9: Never heard anyone say that before...

:D :D ...well I never trained him how to fetch a beer from the fridge, open it, put it in a stubbie holder & bring it to me! :D

...or to poo in the toilet & flush the result...although I contemplated training him that one several times! :D

I even had a special doggie loo for him!..all he had to do was lift up the lid & squat!...but I just never got around to it!

;)

Di

[Steve K9Pro]

A: It's not the bite training that has them declared...it's working them as security/guard dogs that immediately puts them into the declared category

K9: really, so sniffer dogs, bomb dogs all dangerous too if they are used by security personell? fascinating...

A: because I owned a dobe....and was well known by the local rangers through my father's occupation....they continually checked to make sure I wasn't working Daims.

K9: so do the council around your way check all Dobes? & how do they check exactly?

A: I also think they were a bit suspicious when they observed his behaviour in crowd situations...he was too well behaved

K9: ok, Im raising the BS flag here... You begin talking about not wanting your dog declared dangerous, then say that they were suspicious because your dog was too well behaved in a crowd?

A: hence my decision not to "work" with my dog as we would only be getting $45 ph (I was already earning more than that by myself! ...in corporate....and 1/2 that in crowd control.)

hope that clears it up.

K9: yes its as clear as mud here.....

[Livi]

So if you weren't working him Aus why the secrecy ??

Even my unruly bugger is well behaved in a crowd Amazes even me that, I would if some ranger suggested cos he was a good boy he should be declared dangerous

[MonElite]

I should be declaring Rex a dangerous dog than He is most well behaved dog in the crowd situation, can be taken anywhere, and has been taken everywhere. And he is confident on top of that!

And it would be pretty hard to find a lot more famous dog than my sexy Rexy............. in the neighbourhood, show ring, dobe world or even obiedience circuit (despite the fact he isnt that well trained).

[Sparty]

I started a thread up before asking this question (re dangerous dog) someone posted a link, in the govt website it specifically mentioned dogs trained to bite even if for a "sport" would be considered dangerous, i cant remember the thread but was told when importing the dog it would be best not to advise that she is titled in shutzhund

[Steve K9Pro]

S: I started a thread up before asking this question (re dangerous dog) someone posted a link, in the govt website it specifically mentioned dogs trained to bite even if for a "sport" would be considered dangerous, i cant remember the thread but was told when importing the dog it would be best not to advise that she is titled in shutzhund

K9: Considered, isnt declared...

This is what I wrote before...

K9: well Im sure I could line up at council & have them declared if I wanted to.

Some one else having them declared would be something else though...

You could have any dog declared dangerous if you wanted to...

[Australdi]

sigh....

I am fairly confident that the rangers didn't check all dobes in the area....like I said, it was more due to them knowing the sort of work that I used to do, and they knew me on a social basis too.

this is going back almost 9 years, and at the time in Victoria a dog that was worked for guard/crowd control/protection in an official capacity, I was advised by both the police (security licensing) and by council by-laws, that the dog (if I worked him in this capacity) would immediately fall under the "declared" category, no matter what his actual behaviour was. I don't know if the laws have been relaxed since as I tried for six months to find away around them then gave up.

it's probably likely that my enquiries also alerted the local guys that I was contemplating it, therefore it may have contributed to thier dilligence in making sure that I didn't work Daims in a commercial manner.

I suppose there's really no secrecy, as Daims is now in a little cardboard box as a pile of ashes, however at the time, due to the amount of officials I had frequent contact with, & worked alongside with, I had to be quite careful what I said & the words I used, and I suppose it's just become a conditioned habit for me <shrug>

I wish it was b/s ...as Daim's would have enjoyed the work & I would have enjoyed his company whilst patroling car parks & the like....a mag torch, just doesn't give you the same sense of company! (mind you, it was rare occasions when I did that sort of work...most of my work was done at a supervisory or above role in the end. So the amount of times I would have actually worked Daim's was not economically viable.

the comment about his good behaviour being suspicious...was a light hearted joke that the rangers used to tease me with...it relates to a specific evening when we attended the christmas lights at the boulevard in Ivanhoe, which was just a few blocks from where I used to live. My Dad, Daims & I were talking to about 5 of the guys in by laws/rangers and Daim's behaviour in the crowd situation (there were 1000's of people there) ...and anyone who lives in the area can confirm the amount of people who attend the boulevarde at christmas on a warm night. Daim's had children running up to him, waving light sabres at him a'la luke skywalker style & he remained alert, but totally unfazed in a sit at heel....until a SWF..off lead decided to take him on! ....well it's another story, & I think I've already posted it before....but the rangers got quite a bit of amusement out of it, and Daim's return to unfazed heel sit, gave them stir ammo for me that "yeah, sure you're not working him"...

I only put the comment in the post to lighten the post a bit, heck!

however, it doesn't change the fact that the guys did often ask if he was being worked when they'd come around for a coffee, and I would always assure them that no, he was only trained in obedience & was a companion dog....

BTW...I have no idea how those laws related to police dogs/customs dogs etc....I suspect that they may have had an exemption being Govt. dogs, rather than private...I don't know, because I wasn't enquiring about that status...

now...has that finally cleared it up???

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: yes Aus, its clear...

[Australdi]

What I did forget to add...was that when I used my horse at crowd functions...I had no such hoops re: by laws etc...the major hurdle there was public liability insurance!

Aus

anyone here ever go to the meredith music festival the year the "security horse" was there? ...well that was Pumpkin & me

Aus

[MonElite]

Aus - I dont follow, really.

I understand you work as a security person. You had a dobe that was NOT trained for protection work.

1. - why did you take him to work on an odd occasion and pretended you worked him?

2. - if he was trained wouldnt he have to be "registered" with the company you work for?

3. - if he wasnt to be a working dog and was to never work as an official patrol dog why couldnt you train him PRIVATELLY for PP? (reasons other than cost and willingness to train, and his temperament) I imgine it was the peer pressure and taking a safe approach, correct?

however, it doesn't change the fact that the guys did often ask if he was being worked when they'd come around for a coffee, and I would always assure them that no, he was only trained in obedience & was a companion dog....

noone has ever asked me if I "work" my dog.......

photo taken at Carolls at Domain about 2-3 years ago.

Feel free to pm me, as this doesnt really add value to the prey drive thread. Im sure your dog was good enough to be trained for PP, you just chose not to for resont other than his temperament. Wether you had the knowledge to train him is another story.

But the dog is now dead (RIP) so why wont we talk about what you do with your current dogs and how you do it, this might add value to the thread.

[dasha]

I am after some help with my Kelpie.

I seem to have a personality clash with my dog and I need to fix it.

I play games with her (that she likes), I train her (no corrections as she is very soft), I feed her and take her places, I do all the things she likes but it is like she doesn't trust me or like me much. She acts scared of me often and won't come near me if I have anything in my hand. Whether it is a phone, a pen, anything except food. She always knows when I have food even if I hide it before i go out the door.

I live on a rural block too with no fences and I have had dogs for 20 years and they have never wandered away until now. If I turn my back to go inside for more than 5 mins she runs away. She does go to a house up the road with little JRT's to play. I have asked the owners to chase her away and send her home however they think she is a lovely dog and don't mind her coming. My other dogs are here she can play with but she just goes up the driveway and up the street.

I now have to confine her in a small pen now which she seems to spend 90%of her time in as she can't be trusted to hang around.

I need some help in trying to make our relationship a better one as I can't understand why she is always thinking the worst when I want her. When I ask her to come its like she has to think about it and you can see the stress in her head as to what she should do.

I have had her since 6 weeks old so she hasn't been mistreated before I got her and she has never been scolded for anything after coming.

She does loving playing prey games and when we do those she is a very confident dog. When she was young I would let her win the tug of war games etc to give her confidence but she will always give the toy back to play again. I just want to know if anyone has any ideas on how to help us get along better?

[MonElite]

get yourself a lesson with the guru of drives - the originator of this thread.

[dasha]

I will be doing that. I just need to do something until I can go as I am not able to drive until Nov as I have plaster on my foot. I can walk but no driving. Very frustrating.

As I did a lot of drive work with her since she was a pup and I let her win a lot I am wondering if maybe that was a bad thing. In my job, we always let the dog win the game as it keeps him keen and confident and as my pet dog was so soft, I let her win alot so she would get a lot more confident.

I want to work at something in the mean time so I can get as much out of the lesson when I can go there if you know what I mean. I don't want to get there and then be told I need to change the way I feed her for instance. I am using TOT now and I am trying to do more 1 on 1 with her but just want some ideas of what exercises I can do before I go to see Steve.

[Australdi]

Aus - I dont follow, really.

I understand you work as a security person. You had a dobe that was NOT trained for protection work.

1. - why did you take him to work on an odd occasion and pretended you worked him?

2. - if he was trained wouldnt he have to be "registered" with the company you work for?

3. - if he wasnt to be a working dog and was to never work as an official patrol dog why couldnt you train him PRIVATELLY for PP? (reasons other than cost and willingness to train, and his temperament) I imgine it was the peer pressure and taking a safe approach, correct?

not quite....

1. I used to work in the security/investigations industry....been out of it now for about 5 years. (burn out)...and Daim's was trained, but I couldn't admit that at the time.

1.a ...I never took him to work...or pretended to work him...the chistmas lights was a traditional family outing...purely social, just happened to bump into the guys we knew as the police & council were involved in running crowd control there due to the huge numbers of people.

2. even though trained, he wasn't working, so it wasn't an issue.

3. he was, ....he didn't ....& I did (bad girl I was BTW...his temperment was perfect for it....that's why it's a shame I never worked him.

& yes...I definately took the safe approach so that he had the best quality life

Aus

[MonElite]

Daim's was trained, but I couldn't admit that at the time.

I thought you said he wasnt trained for protection work and that you could have taken his training further but chose not to.

anyway, back on prey drive developement and focus. - I cant wait for longer days so I can go out after work and play with my dogs more.

Last night I took Divani out for some training (we have been really slack and done nothing recently) so Im bruised all over again and have a fat lip after she jumped up at me, not sure either to kiss me or to grab the ball

Edited September 27, 2006 by myszka

[Jeff Jones]

if as you said working a dog in security automatically has the dog declared dangerous and not the training...why would the council or police give a hoot if your dog is protection trained if it was never worked in the security industry?

i cant think of a working line dobermann breeder in victoria that doesnt either own or manage a security company, yet there dogs are not declared dangerous...so i dont know why there was fuss around your dog...